Jumping dizzy

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joe27979

joe27979

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,354
Location
west Norfolk
Hi all,
Is this behavior normal - when I loosen my dizzy clamp to adjust timing by strobe the dizzy pops off the engine each time!

I have to stop engine, loosen dizzy and rotate, then tighten and start engine again.

its a pain in the backside and I just wondered if it should shoot off each time or have I got something amiss here?


p.s did it with my old ducellier points dizzy and my new electronic dizzy assembly

:crutch:
 
Sounds like the skew gear is lifting which it shouldn't do, theres a locking screw which holds it in place which is accessed under the oil filter housing face where it meets the block. Maybe you could check that if it's a major problem - its fiddly if you take it out though! Have a look at my rebuild thread where it gets to the engine rebuild bit and you can see it.
 
Good call. I agree skew gear must be pushing up....it's a right c**t to refit! I ended up pointing a webcam at it so I could see when it was lined up (see here)

I wouldn't be surprised if some PO had got thoroughly ****ed off trying to get the grub screw in and just thought bollocks to it!

D
 
cheers guys, gives me something to go at..although I just did an oil change so its an expensive grub screw if it is loose!
can I tell if its loose from above before I remove oil filter housing?

muchos...p.s love the thread!
 
according to this post:

2.25 not firing 3&4 ?

the skew gear will jump if grub screw is missing - if it has jumped and gone in a tooth or so out in the oil pump gear could this be a cause of some timing issues im seeing?
if so how do I re-align the skew gear properly?

At TDC the rotor arm points roughly to number 1 spark plug (electronic dizzy so cant check with bulb)
 
If it's loose it will cause timing problems. I can't remember exactly how its machined. The grub screw needs to locate into a hole but I think the hole might be in a lip so allowing some movement if grub screw is not located in hole but is present...memory fails.

Anyway you should be able to do it without losing a lot of oil. Just take off the filter and housing, most will be in the sump. The filter should survive the ordeal.

You should be able to check by taking out the dissy and any associated keyway converter if fitted then have a go with some long nose / circlip pliers and see if you can fish the skew gear out at all. If it moves up/down by more than 1/8" it must be loose....

D
 
cheers Dominic,

I had a look online and found:


I presume the grub screw locates into the bronze bush and the gear spins inside the bush?
 
so if I align the skew like this below:


and then drop it into engine so it locates on oil pump shaft - I try to fit small grub screw into hole to prevent up and down movement?
 
You've got it Joe, good research and pictorial backup!

Just to add - you see that slot in top of the little adapter that goes between skew gear and distributer in the pic above - the slot machined across it is NOT in the middle, it's offset to one side which isn't clear in the pic, it should be offset towards the bottom of that pic, which you can kind of see by looking at it.

For what it's worth, I couldn't get mine to point exactly as displayed, it was either coming out just before or just after. I hope that's normal cos if not I've got the cam timed wrong maybe :(
 
You can take the oil filter assembly off and as long as you keep it tipped upright you won't lose any (much) oil or need to drain it first.

(cough cough disclaimer, don't blame me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I'm not)
 
thanks for the input,
I guess first thing to do is rotate to TDC and remove dizzy and see if slot is pointing to 2 0'clock.
if it is then I will just refit dizzy for now, if it ain't I will try to pull shaft up and rotate it around a bit.. I'm servicing a defender 300tdi tomorrow so will take off my oil filter if I have time and if I can see my shaft is moving up and down too much :)
 
help!!

ok view of dizzy pointing to no.1 spark roughly

76AD0232-B588-401B-8C73-87DFCF16C637-544-00000069CDCF7047_zpsa10082df.jpg


dizzy out showing adaptor piece:

9B709FFE-97E2-4071-ADD4-709C96169E04-544-00000069D2801BE8_zps2cbde3ec.jpg


adaptor piece removed (top of pic):

ACF3EA11-87BF-4C63-9EEB-277CB0F37B8F-544-00000069D669A38E_zpsbecfd11c.jpg


is this correct?

if I turn the skew shaft clockwise it rises on its gear by 11.5mm but it won't come right out, if I let it go it spins back down anticlockwise by 11.5mm.

can anyone help-is this right?

video:
0D5BD5D3-6DE2-4684-B895-43974869ECE6-544-00000069FEDC681E_zps2e14c1ea.mp4
 
id start again , remove oil filter housing and skew gear, turn engine over till tdc no1 (watching valves)fit skew gear after first checking bush is ok with the 20 degrees alignment with the master spline ,align hole in skew gear bush wind screw in till tight then back till just free so that it is fully located in bush fit adapter then drive then dizzy rotor arm should face toward front corner of head
 
There shouldn't be any significant movement up and down, I'd deffo say the grub screw is loose, missing or there's something up with the skew assembly itself. This thread has reminded me about mine so I was checking it this afternoon and this is where it points when the engine is at no1 tdc compression stroke:

null_zps7546cbf6.jpg


It's pointing pretty much right though a bit lower than in the haynes manual pic:

aeeda97c3aff715ccfbbc94c13811828_zps6b68695d.jpg


The master spline is in the toothed part below the slotted part you can see, it should point upwards 20 degrees as shown above.

If I move it on one tooth by lifting out the skew and reinserting it ends up halfway towards yours, so maybe you are a couple of teeth out on the skew. To be honest, I cant see how it matters on a petrol as you can set the dizzy anywhere to make it spark at the correct time. Doing it right just makes sure the advance bit points in the right general direction so it doesn't hit the block. Here's the rest of the haynes manual blurb re fitting it:

add5093216da93081df61f56ea8c336d_zpsf30fddef.jpg


Hope you can read that. Don't forget when re setting it that no 1 has to be tdc on the beginning of compression stroke. I reckon you ought to have it out for a look and sort the fixing of it.
 
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