Freelander 1 It's cold for TD4s again - slow to start - try this !

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andyfreelandy

Well-Known Member
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Devon
So my 2002 135k TD4 has always been sluggy to start then belches white unburnt fuel when cold. haing read many threads - some very involved, but all interesting, I thought I'd try the 'turn it on and off to pre-heat 3 times before starting' trick.

FIres on first try having done this.

So if it works for other lazy TD4's how about we try to find the root cause of this one?? Perhaps a software mod or sensor change / mod to enable a bit more heating when needed??

Thought / results please..............
 
Yes, the glow plugs tend to get over looked as they generally give very little trouble so we don't change them. And when you do they're stuck solid.
Would be nice to override the pre heating circuit so it would stay on longer on the cold mornings.
Mike
 
Applying current to glow plugs for a fixed amount of time (eg 10 seconds) will presumably not take them to a temp (eg to 80 degrees) - it will presumably raise their temp by a number of degrees (eg by 60 degrees), so if ambient temp is 20, it will take them to 80, but only 55 if ambient is -5. Presumably if the weather is very cold, the battery may perform less efficiently and therefore the rise in temp may be less - eg a 50 degrees rise so at -5 it will only take it to 45. (figures all examples)

I know my figures are only guesses and show a big difference in temps, from 80 down to 45 - but the principle is probably correct. The designers though will (surely!) have taken that into account and have designed the system so that the glow plugs are live for the "correct" amount of time. I don't think I've ever had to double of tripple pre-heat the glow plugs on my L Series - and I have started it when it has been below -5. I have started the car, "chiseled" the ice off the car, driven to my fishing spots, tackled up and even after that length of time the line is still freezing to the rings on the fishing rod - but the L Series started on the first turn (I'm sure the TD4 should be the same).

If the glow plugs are old, corroded and/or sooted up presumably this would reduce their efficiency - which may take them outside the operational expectancy the designers worked with - hence they might need 2 or more pre-heats to raise them by the same temperature. I would have thought this is particularly unwanted as it is the very cold morning when you'll need to pre-heat multiple times, which will drain quite a bit of power from the battery, and its also the time when the starter motor will needs as much oomph as possible!
 
On my father in law's old Citreon Zara we hacked into the power lines and put a toggle switch on it, so you could run the plugs for 30 seconds. Which was plenty of time.
Can't see the ECU in the Hippo being happy with that though.
You'd need a T4 or similar to try and hack the program. And then you'd need to make it Temperature sensitive. Don't think my icarsoft LRII would be up to the job.

Mike
 
Thanks for the info - I omitted to say that I have changed my glow plugs last winter, so only about 12,000 miles of use on them. I have also monitored the feed to the glows and the light goes out before the feed is removed in many cases. Also - when it is warmer, the plugs do not get power before a start, but they do after it has fired, apparently to manage emissions. So - the light is an odd ball - it is obviously 'designed' to tell you when to start the car, but doesn't reflect power to plugs.

I am thinking along the lines of a 'cold start' button, which puts 20 secs or so onto the glows and then removes power to the glows whilst cranking to put all power to starter. Based on the fact that the glows don't go cold instantly. My mod would then return control to the ECM to do what it will. Fault codes may abound!?!?!
 
The TD4 ECU has active glow control, so calculates the glow plug on time. It does this by monitoring engine temperature and battery voltage, lengthening or shortening the glow period to suit.
The most likely cause for poor cold staring is a plug or plugs going high resistance. This means they don't heat up so much in the allotted time. This is why giving them a second or third blast helps.
 
So my 2002 135k TD4 has always been sluggy to start .. ..
similar mileage to mine ..
last winter .. thought that the glow plus may need replacing
i.e. due to extended cranking first thing in the day .. temps down to freezing

then .. this past summer .. i did the air-intake-mod
now .. in freezing temps ..
it starts as if it were summer-time .. with the stock intake ..
and it fires up with some enthusiasm in any case with that mod ..

surprised me the first time .. near 0c temp. .. sounded like it caught on the first compression stroke

i use the glow plugs pre-start once as per usual
am tempted to disable them just to see how it starts mid-winter

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glow plug info attached :

Glow_Plug_operation_td4.jpg

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o.k found it, if it is the replace the plastic intake and hoses with silicone and alu tube. Looks good for air intake but how does this help with cold starts?? anyone??
 
The intake mod improves breathing. Then it's likely that the larger volume of air in the cylinders increase temperature of the air once compressed. Increasing the temperature of the compressed air in the cylinders would aid cold staring.
 
@hd3 we is confused. Can you give us an explanation please.
what Nodge68 wrote
i'd type more .. but have been feeling ill last 2 days ..
either nasty cold .. or mild flu
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My car is still a bit iffy about starting even after replacing the glow plugs but not as bad as before. The old ones were open circuit so I don't think they were doing anything. I bought cheapo Bearmach glow plugs so unless anyone knows different I was thinking that may be part of the issue.
 
My car is still a bit iffy about starting even after replacing the glow plugs but not as bad as before. The old ones were open circuit so I don't think they were doing anything. I bought cheapo Bearmach glow plugs so unless anyone knows different I was thinking that may be part of the issue.

I used Bearmach glow plugs in my SE too. Bearmach products are normally pretty good. Mine does crank a bit longer when it's below ~5°C but it's not excessive. Maybe 3 to 5 seconds cranking before it fires. I could only get plugs 2,3 and 4 out, so only 3 were changed. I know plug 1 is fubar because it measures 0 ohms. I suspect that changing the HPFP regulator O ring might improve the cold starting. It's on the "to do" list anyway.
 
I used Bearmach glow plugs in my SE too. Bearmach products are normally pretty good. Mine does crank a bit longer when it's below ~5°C but it's not excessive. Maybe 3 to 5 seconds cranking before it fires. I could only get 2, 3 and 4 out, so only 3 were changed. I know plug is fubar because it measures 0 ohms. I suspect that changing the HPFP regulator O ring might improve the cold starting. It's on the "to do" list anyway.
Sounds similar to mine then Nodge. I've also just ordered a now O ring kit so I have it handy. I'm hoping the new fuel pump will make a difference too once installed. I should have done that today but feeling a tad lazy. :cool:
 
Sounds similar to mine then Nodge. I've also just ordered a now O ring kit so I have it handy. I'm hoping the new fuel pump will make a difference too once installed. I should have done that today but feeling a tad lazy. :cool:

I find that owning a Freelander makes one a bit lazy:D
 
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