Injection fuel pump problems - We think?

Hi Guys

New to the forum people. Few months back, we replaced a 2.5 NA engine for 2.5 Turbo Diesel engine, we bought the engine from a club member. He said the engine hasnt been ran for more than a year.
We bleed the Diesel pipes which were a pain and finally managed to turn her over for the first time. Turned the key, and she ticked over fine, bit fast but nothing majour, for a good 20 mins. Ran her up and down the drive, to test everything was working ok, took my foot of the clutch and the engine reved very high with my foot off the throttle pedal, no control over engine speed at all. Turned her off ASAP!!!!!
We thought it was a fuel problem but on turning her over again a few days later the same thing happened, she was ticking over fine, gave her a little throttle and she reved very hard again, turned her of again ASAP!!!!

Have a few ideas of what it could be (fuel pump) but not really sure.

Comments would be great

Cheers
Richard Brooks

so it runs fine without throttle touched and only goes tits up when you touch the pedal?
if you move it on the pump by hand and return it to throttle closed-what happens?

Did it kick out a load of ****e smoke? - if so could be the turbo seals gone - common problem with the TD engine - runs on its own oil until it blows up - if it is doing this then even when you turn off the ignition it may keep running for some time

If not then sounds like injector pump needs setting up properly - usualy a job of a decent diesel center to do - As for the tickover speed this is adjusted by the small leave at the front of the pump with a screew that rests on the fuel return pipe. - NOT the main linkage as this will upset the fuel boost for stating and give you major problems cold starting - Infact now i come to think of it the otther problem you may have is that the fuel boost is kicking in when you come off the pedel causing the uncontroled reving

Happy new year! Cheers for advice

As to answer Fanatic questions, yeah the engine runs ok when ticking over, as soon as you touch the pedal the engine revs hard. We didnt try moving it by hand to throttle closed when the engine was reving hard, just wanted to turn it of.

As to answer jamescroin, the engine, when reving hard gave out alot of Blue/Black/White smoke. we turned her of quick, thankfully the key turned her of. So you say fuel Boost could be a problem, What is it and where is it based, can it be repaired? Another problem you said was the Turbo seals have gone, can these be inspected and replaced?

I really dont want to start her until she is fixed as it scared the **** out of me and my son.

jamescronin said:

NOT the main linkage as this will upset the fuel boost for stating and give you major problems cold starting

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Ummm Mines Always been a bastard to start from cold with clouds of unburnt diesel befor she fires up , but I,ve have never touched the linkages since I bought her ...

Going to look deeper into this ............

Dont think it is the Turbo seal gone as when we turned the key, she turned of straight away the first and second time it happened. Not really sure what else it could be.

How can the timing on the fuel pump change as she has been sitting for more than a year? Checked the oil and seems ok, bit high but hasnt used any.

Comment would be great

Brooks said:

Dont think it is the Turbo seal gone as when we turned the key, she turned of straight away the first and second time it happened. Not really sure what else it could be.

How can the timing on the fuel pump change as she has been sitting for more than a year? Checked the oil and seems ok, bit high but hasnt used any.

Comment would be great

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Try draining some oil off to just below the mark

Check the things i mentioned

1) is there any oil in the pipe between the turbo and manifold (just undo the hose clip)

2) Check the air filter is it covered in oil - if so its sucking oil from the top of the enigne

- I think the fuel boost is not going to be causing the problem (it is inside the injector pump) as it would not produce the huge ploom of smoke

- I still think the turbo is the most likely cause here - What happens is that on tickover the air flow is not enough to start to draw oil past the seals the moment you rev it up the air flow increases, the turbo spins up and in comes the oil. If the seals are only letting a bit of oil through turning it off with the key may well cause it to stop. When mine went last they failed big time and i had to use the clutch to stall the engine.

Check number 1 first

James

The man has told us 3 times now that the key turned it off so it's isn't going to rev it's head off then stop on the key if its oil is it?

I suspect the injection pump governor is gummed up - if it sat for ages then water could have got into it and rusted things up a bit. The pump works in such a way that when you touch the throtte it basically creates an inbalance in the governor, it then throws in loads of fuel to try and compensate for this, when it balances out it throws in just enough fuel to keep it doing this. If this mechanism fails, or gums up, you get it sticking in the maxiumum fuel opening.

I would get a heavy duty dose of injector/fuel system cleaner into the fuel system - best option would be to run a temp pipe from lift pump directly into a bottle of injector cleaner mixed with about a litre of diesel, as soon as it's taken the lot on tick over, turn it off and leave this strong mix sitting in the pump to work it's magic. Reconnect the normal fuel line and try running it again. If it was water this will not help but cheap and worth a try.

I cleaned my pump out once by pumping acetone mixed with a little diesel through it (not by running it), when the acetone ran out the other end clean I stopped, pump ran a treat after that. DO NOT RUN THE PUMP THOUGH, as the acetone offers NO lubrication.

If it comes to it, a rebuild will be needed or a new or 2nd hand pump. If you feel up to it you could take the lid of the pump, and check it for contamination or rust, if it is full of crud then wash it out with kero or something - stick the top back on and the thing will probably work!

Thanks for the comments
Took the pipes of between the manifold and turbo - Bone dry, not a sign of oil at all. Cant be the Turbo seal gone then, must be the injector pump governor gammed up.

What should we try first, clean it out with injector cleaner or take the lid of the pump and check it for contamination or rust. Will we have to reset the timings in the pump and governor? How much work to inspect?

We also havent got the pipe from the filler cap connected to the air intake nor the turbo pipe to the air filter, have found both, just waiting for them to be removed from another engine, would this affect the engine and make it rev hard? Just a thought

Sorry my fault was getting confused between threads as there is another one about running on oil going as well.

Brooks said:

What should we try first, clean it out with injector cleaner or take the lid of the pump and check it for contamination or rust. Will we have to reset the timings in the pump and governor? How much work to inspect?

We also haven’t got the pipe from the filler cap connected to the air intake nor the turbo pipe to the air filter, have found both, just waiting for them to be removed from another engine, would this affect the engine and make it rev hard? Just a thought

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I would not remove the lid as a first job; I would try a heavy duty dose of injector/fuel system cleaner. If you take the lid of in situ you will not need to change anything, you might take it off find it's a mess and at this point stick the lid back on, take it off and take it to a diesel shop to be rebuilt - they will advise if the rust is too bad to save the pump for example.

When you take the top off, beware, there is a linkage which is connected by a fiddly little spring and a wire hook (main throttle) it is easier to strip it and push the throttle spindle out if you are doing it in situ.

Regarding the oil pipes no this would not make a difference as it is very much fuel related.

The reason why the engine ran away with its self was because there is a diaphragm in the fuel pump, which controls the boast to the turbo then to the acatator then into the inlet manifold. A simple thing like this can destroy your engine.

Thanks for all the advice