hi. next stupid question. my landy (109, exMoD, 73 petrol 2.25) has become incontinent. after stopping the engine this afternoon a whole load of steam came out of the pipe just below the radiator cap that runs down the side of the radiator (appears to be no expansion vessel???) - loads and loads of steam, took about 5 minutes to stop. what have i arsed up now, please?
incontinent landy
- Thread starter ishmael
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Mucky Fingers
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Not enough info for a pinpoint reply.
However, if you can answer a few questions, it might help the experts home in on you problems.
Have you been using this LR regularly, without problems?
Have you got a good anti-freeze solution in it?
What was the last thing you touched, under the bonnet?
Is there any oil in the water or water in the oil?
If you fill the radiator to the brim (cap off), then rev the engine, does it fire water into the air.
Is there a thermostat fitted?
Is the radiator blocked with a piece of cardboard?
Is the fluid in the radiator clean or the colour of tomato soup?
Is water leaking anywhere?
How is it running?
Regards
However, if you can answer a few questions, it might help the experts home in on you problems.
Have you been using this LR regularly, without problems?
Have you got a good anti-freeze solution in it?
What was the last thing you touched, under the bonnet?
Is there any oil in the water or water in the oil?
If you fill the radiator to the brim (cap off), then rev the engine, does it fire water into the air.
Is there a thermostat fitted?
Is the radiator blocked with a piece of cardboard?
Is the fluid in the radiator clean or the colour of tomato soup?
Is water leaking anywhere?
How is it running?
Regards
i had used it about 2 hours previously, with no problems - it does about 10 miles a day, everyday (for the past six weeks since i bought it, anyway)Mucky Fingers said:
not yet - i've only had it six weeks and haven't got around to it..
replaced the master cylinder and wd40d the heating valve - appears to be completely seized...
there is a bit of water in the oil (white gunge on underside of oil filler cap?), but i have no idea when this dates from - planned oil change is a few weeks away
no idea - will check
yes, i think - will check
no
clearish - bit tainted
not until this
ok... occasional misfires on high revs, lot of white smoke on start, but this clears fairly quickly, and it is pretty cold, for hertfordshire. getting 15 to the gallon out of it, and the carb needs attention - the choke doesn't work, revs too high etc.
thanks a lot
forgot to mention - wisps of steam coming out ofthe breather on top of the engine aswell...
slob
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start the flucker with rad cap off and see what happens.. big gush or little white bubbles. or normal flow. then do a compression test ...
after you have done all that go to e bay and look for another engine.
after you have done all that go to e bay and look for another engine.
hmmm. no coolant would be the problem here. doh! can't see a leak anywhere, but there was definitely some in there a couple of weeks ago...
the oil level doesn't seem to be going up, but there is nasty white gunge on the dipstick and in the oil cap, the white smoke (steam?) on startup clears after two or three minutes. head gasket, or do you suppose it might be cheap oil causing the gunk?
the oil level doesn't seem to be going up, but there is nasty white gunge on the dipstick and in the oil cap, the white smoke (steam?) on startup clears after two or three minutes. head gasket, or do you suppose it might be cheap oil causing the gunk?
Mucky Fingers
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I agree with Slob. Sounds very much like a head gasket.
Cute answer would be sell it on ebay and buy another.
Plenty of engines around as Slob says. Compression check should (only should) show up head gasket. Messing with the heater valve should not have caused problem. White smoke on start-up is a big clue. You could drain the whole thing down to the point where you can be sure there is no water in the head. Run it for about a minute. Leave it overnight and then start it again - if there's no white smoke, you've nailed it.
How about sticking a diesel in?
Cute answer would be sell it on ebay and buy another.
Plenty of engines around as Slob says. Compression check should (only should) show up head gasket. Messing with the heater valve should not have caused problem. White smoke on start-up is a big clue. You could drain the whole thing down to the point where you can be sure there is no water in the head. Run it for about a minute. Leave it overnight and then start it again - if there's no white smoke, you've nailed it.
How about sticking a diesel in?
Mucky Fingers said:
it was pretty much bone dry, and i was still getting the smoke, but i am sure you and slob are right about the gasket and i am in denial. oh well - i was going to do an oil flush and sump gasket in a few weeks anyway, and i've a nice new weber carb sitting here to go on it, so i may as well scrap a whole weekend and do the head gasket as well - i remember it being relatively easy, but it is 20 years since i did it (army cadets!!!). whats the feeling - easier to do a headgasket on a 2.25 petrol, or go with the new engine? (and given my history of buying tarted up sh1te on e-bay...) also, i have the tools to do the gasket, but not the winch, engine mount ets to change the engine...
slob
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- Harrogate or London
i never said head gasket but it is a strong contender. i suspect there is more to it which is why i said get an engine.. do a wet and a dry comp test before you do anything else.
right, after putting 3 and a half litres of water and antifreeze in there and giving it a good run today, everything goes the colour of thin tomato soup. starting with the rad cap off is ok - there is no big gush, nothing spits out of the rad, and everything appears to flow normally - a few tiny (really tiny) bubbles, but nothing that looks like foam or froth. now that the cooling system is full water is leaking out of the hoses into the heater matrix, so i guess that might be worth looking at , also again when i stop some water seems to come out of the hose where the expansion vessel should be (it should have an expansion vessel, right? - it does in the ops manual...) don't know whether this is to be expected or not really, never having run a vehicle without an expansion vessel before.
i also had a check to see how long the white smoke takes to clear - basically one good rev and its gone.
my thinking then is that i have the following problems:
leaking hoses on the heater matrix (spitting water throught he bulkhead onto my daughter, which cheers her up no end.)
lack of expansion vessel on the rad.
probable head gasket issue - no compression tester so no way of proving this or otherwise.
anything else?
thanks for all your sound advice so far.
, also again when i stop some water seems to come out of the hose where the expansion vessel should be (it should have an expansion vessel, right? - it does in the ops manual...) don't know whether this is to be expected or not really, never having run a vehicle without an expansion vessel before.i also had a check to see how long the white smoke takes to clear - basically one good rev and its gone.
my thinking then is that i have the following problems:
leaking hoses on the heater matrix (spitting water throught he bulkhead onto my daughter, which cheers her up no end.)
lack of expansion vessel on the rad.
probable head gasket issue - no compression tester so no way of proving this or otherwise.
anything else?
thanks for all your sound advice so far.
what else do you think it could be? i don't have the kit, the space or the skill to replace an engine at the moment, and buying an other landy would admit to the missus that i have completely lost the plot. again. having said that, i doubt i have the skill to do a head gasket either. ha. ha. ha.slob said:
Mucky Fingers
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OK, you're homing in.
Remove the two heater hoses and join them together with a bit of half-inch copper pipe or similar. This should get rid of the leak for now.
The "tomato soup probably means the Landy has sat unused for quite a while, what you need to do is flush the system out with a hose pipe (take bottom hose off the rad) flush evry which way but loose! This makes the next step more effective.
Go to a decent (not B&Q) plumbing shop and get some really strong boiler flush. Stick it into system, top up with water and drive it around for a couple of miles.
Flush the system really well again.
Remove the radiator. Flush it backwards and forwards. **** has most probably been drawn up from the block and is sitting on top of the core, within the header tank.
Replace radiator - you now have a clean, water tight system.
Forget rad flush made for cars, no use whatsoever. Get profess boiler flush (extra strong) Alternatively, use Caustic Soda, but, be REALLY CAREFUL. It is the strongest alkeline (not acid) known to man and can strip flesh to the bone. Add the soda to the water, not water to the soda (can blow up in your face!)
Now, if you dont have a compression tester, you can try two things. Either stick a startinghandle up the hole (keys out!) and turn the engine over by hand. You should feel four even compressions, one every 180 degrees. If you only have two, you definately have a blown gasket.
Another test is to take all the plugs out and crank the engine over briefly on the key (need an assistant) whilst sticking your thumb over each plug hole in turn. The compression should be such that you cannot keep you thumb on the hole. Watch out for the fan blade. Pull the HT lead out of the coil for safety.
Overflow bottles were not fitted until about 1980 ish I think.
Let us know how you get on?
Remove the two heater hoses and join them together with a bit of half-inch copper pipe or similar. This should get rid of the leak for now.
The "tomato soup probably means the Landy has sat unused for quite a while, what you need to do is flush the system out with a hose pipe (take bottom hose off the rad) flush evry which way but loose! This makes the next step more effective.
Go to a decent (not B&Q) plumbing shop and get some really strong boiler flush. Stick it into system, top up with water and drive it around for a couple of miles.
Flush the system really well again.
Remove the radiator. Flush it backwards and forwards. **** has most probably been drawn up from the block and is sitting on top of the core, within the header tank.
Replace radiator - you now have a clean, water tight system.
Forget rad flush made for cars, no use whatsoever. Get profess boiler flush (extra strong) Alternatively, use Caustic Soda, but, be REALLY CAREFUL. It is the strongest alkeline (not acid) known to man and can strip flesh to the bone. Add the soda to the water, not water to the soda (can blow up in your face!)
Now, if you dont have a compression tester, you can try two things. Either stick a startinghandle up the hole (keys out!) and turn the engine over by hand. You should feel four even compressions, one every 180 degrees. If you only have two, you definately have a blown gasket.
Another test is to take all the plugs out and crank the engine over briefly on the key (need an assistant) whilst sticking your thumb over each plug hole in turn. The compression should be such that you cannot keep you thumb on the hole. Watch out for the fan blade. Pull the HT lead out of the coil for safety.
Overflow bottles were not fitted until about 1980 ish I think.
Let us know how you get on?
slob
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are these tiny bubbles white inside???
and another thing: why do i have two radiators fitted? theres the standard thing, and then in front of it (between the radiator and the frontpanel) there is a wiggly metal pipe with cooling fins on it - looks like you might imagine a 1930s radiator to look like, but i can't find any mention of it in the parts catalogue or the ops manual. i am beginning to think it might not be a landrover. i think i have bought a Zil with a landrover badge on it.
oil cooler, apparently. wow. that'll be handy in hertfordshire.
oil cooler, apparently. wow. that'll be handy in hertfordshire.
slob
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its an oil cooler
Mucky Fingers
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I think you will find that your extra (wiggly) radiator might not be connected to anything? I have just stripped one out. I thought it was some part of an army system for cooling radio equipment?
If its doing nowt, chuck it out!
Don't jump into riping the head off until you are sure it is a head gasket problem. Get you cooling system clean and leakproof first.
One test which might be worth doing if you have the rad out is a "drop test", which entails blocking all the outlets, filling with water and then timing how long it takes for the main gush of water to shoot out of the bottom hose hole, when you pull the plug (rad cap off of course). Should only be a few seconds - if its more than five, the core might be blocked.
Some sort of compression test is really essential!!!!!!!!
If its doing nowt, chuck it out!
Don't jump into riping the head off until you are sure it is a head gasket problem. Get you cooling system clean and leakproof first.
One test which might be worth doing if you have the rad out is a "drop test", which entails blocking all the outlets, filling with water and then timing how long it takes for the main gush of water to shoot out of the bottom hose hole, when you pull the plug (rad cap off of course). Should only be a few seconds - if its more than five, the core might be blocked.
Some sort of compression test is really essential!!!!!!!!
slob
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- Harrogate or London
ffs THE WIGGLY THING IS AN OIL COOLER
perished heater inlet hose - can't shut it off cos the heater valve is jammed. wow. spraying very fine droplets out against the bulkhead - i had to wait for everything to dry out before i noticed that one patch was permanently wet. got one on order (£1.18 ) so hopefully will have everything sorted shortly.
still, the compression tester will come in handy. thanks for all the advice, everyone
) so hopefully will have everything sorted shortly.still, the compression tester will come in handy.
thanks for all the advice, everyone
