Identify hose TD4

Hi guys, helping my friend to figure out why is his TD4 Freelander 2005 cranking but not starting.
First, can anyone tell me whether this hose (red line) is a low pressure fuel hose?
Imgur link to photo

Anyone please?

Picture looks awfully dark there @Kerberos

OK, it has changed to a link now..........

Cheers

Yeah because the website was turning my link into MEDIA but wasn't loading the picture within.

Cheers

Kerberos said:

Hi guys, helping my friend to figure out why is his TD4 Freelander 2005 cranking but not starting.
First, can anyone tell me whether this hose (red line) is a low pressure fuel hose?
Imgur link to photo

Anyone please?

Click to expand...

That is a low pressure fuel hose.

Can you hear the pump running with the key turned to II?

guineafowl21 said:

That is a low pressure fuel hose.

Can you hear the pump running with the key turned to II?

Click to expand...

Yes I can hear the pump buzzing with ignition on. I was trying to disconnect that hose I'm talking about to see whether fuel was coming out while cranking but after breaking the clamp on one side and trying to remove one part of the hose where it joints with the L shape one, I pull it and if I stop it goes back in like a suction. Didn't want to force it out and had no more light in my garage so stopped inspection until tomorrow. Should I pull harder?
One more thing, on the same hose, down the line where it's almost going under the car, next to the rail, there is a connector right on the hose, what is it for?

Kerberos said:

Yes I can hear the pump buzzing with ignition on. I was trying to disconnect that hose I'm talking about to see whether fuel was coming out while cranking but after breaking the clamp on one side and trying to remove one part of the hose where it joints with the L shape one, I pull it and if I stop it goes back in like a suction. Didn't want to force it out and had no more light in my garage so stopped inspection until tomorrow. Should I pull harder?
One more thing, on the same hose, down the line where it's almost going under the car, next to the rail, there is a connector right on the hose, what is it for?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't pull at all - you'll end up breaking something that's hard to replace.

That's probably the low pressure fuel sensor.

Disconnect the return line on top of the high pressure pump - at least that's all metal and less likely to break. If fuel's getting there, I would look elsewhere for the problem. Many try to diagnose a Td4 common rail as if it were a simple rotary pump diesel. The Td4 doesn't just want fuel 'getting there'. It has to be at the right pressure.

Things to look up on here/try:
1. HP pump regulator O-ring
2. Injector leakback
3. HP rail sensor harness (also check injectors are being pulsed)
4. Cam/crank sensor

A sniff of EasyStart, although naughty, can help direct you. Try it and let us know what happens.

guineafowl21 said:

I wouldn't pull at all - you'll end up breaking something that's hard to replace.

That's probably the low pressure fuel sensor.

Disconnect the return line on top of the high pressure pump - at least that's all metal and less likely to break. If fuel's getting there, I would look elsewhere for the problem. Many try to diagnose a Td4 common rail as if it were a simple rotary pump diesel. The Td4 doesn't just want fuel 'getting there'. It has to be at the right pressure.

Things to look up on here/try:
1. HP pump regulator O-ring
2. Injector leakback
3. HP rail sensor harness (also check injectors are being pulsed)
4. Cam/crank sensor

A sniff of EasyStart, although naughty, can help direct you. Try it and let us know what happens.

Click to expand...

Well since low pressure hoses are easier to reach, I was trying there first. Plus, having broken the clap, I have to put a new one, so I have to pull that hose either way.
I also found out that TD4 has a fuel cooler (initially I thought that was a oil cooler), I removed one of the lines from the 3 way split part the one I circled in pink, but there is no diesel smell coming out?
EasyStart is that kind of alternative fuel starters to try to identify starting issues right? It's called start ya bastard here in Australia and the car indeed starts with this but since no fuel is coming to the system, the engine lasts 3 seconds only and shuts off.
Is the high pressure pump located on the RH side, where driving belt is?

Kerberos said:

Well since low pressure hoses are easier to reach, I was trying there first. Plus, having broken the clap, I have to put a new one, so I have to pull that hose either way.
I also found out that TD4 has a fuel cooler (initially I thought that was a oil cooler), I removed one of the lines from the 3 way split part the one I circled in pink, but there is no diesel smell coming out?
EasyStart is that kind of alternative fuel starters to try to identify starting issues right? It's called start ya bastard here in Australia and the car indeed starts with this but since no fuel is coming to the system, the engine lasts 3 seconds only and shuts off.
Is the high pressure pump located on the RH side, where driving belt is?

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure fuel is only diverted to the cooler when it reaches a certain temperature, so ignore that.

Yes, the HP pump is where you say. On the back you'll see an electrical connector and two torx screws either side of it. This is the HP regulator. Remove it, and examine the O-rings - if split or otherwise deteriorated, this is your problem.

guineafowl21 said:

I'm pretty sure fuel is only diverted to the cooler when it reaches a certain temperature, so ignore that.

Yes, the HP pump is where you say. On the back you'll see an electrical connector and two torx screws either side of it. This is the HP regulator. Remove it, and examine the O-rings - if split or otherwise deteriorated, this is your problem.

Click to expand...

Will try it tomorrow, thanks for that.

Non starts are, more often than not, the high pressure control valve O ring. The engine will often still start fine with low, low fuel pressure.

I didn't start touching the HP pump yet, tried to undo one of the pipes from the rail to the injector and there was no fuel coming out at all while cranking, so I paid more attention to the pump and apparently (from what I heard), the pump is working, but instead of sucking the fuel, it works in reverse, burping the air into tank, because once finished, if I crank it again, it starts burping again and keeps doing it every time. But still no fuel at the front for the HP pump.

Kerberos said:

I didn't start touching the HP pump yet, tried to undo one of the pipes from the rail to the injector and there was no fuel coming out at all while cranking, so I paid more attention to the pump and apparently (from what I heard), the pump is working, but instead of sucking the fuel, it works in reverse, burping the air into tank, because once finished, if I crank it again, it starts burping again and keeps doing it every time. But still no fuel at the front for the HP pump.

Click to expand...

You're probably looking at a fuel return line. This, as far as I remember, is the one I mentioned above which comes off a 90 degree elbow on top of the HP pump.

Follow the other fuel supply line back to a connector so you can see if the low pressure pump is supplying fuel - it's unusual to hear the LP pump run but not have fuel getting to the HP pump unless...

1. Empty tank (don't trust the fuel guage )
2. Clogged line
3. Clogged filter
4. LP pump running but not producing pressure. It's in the right rear wheel arch.

guineafowl21 said:

You're probably looking at a fuel return line. This, as far as I remember, is the one I mentioned above which comes off a 90 degree elbow on top of the HP pump.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure which one is that, I was talking about one of the pipes going from the common rail to the injector. The first 'S' pipe from the left (standing in front of the car). And there was no fuel coming out.

Follow the other fuel supply line back to a connector so you can see if the low pressure pump is supplying fuel - it's unusual to hear the LP pump run but not have fuel getting to the HP pump unless...

Click to expand...

Which connector? I can literally hear bubbles in the fuel tank when the LP pump is running, like when you do bubbles with the straw in the water.

1. Empty tank (don't trust the fuel guage )
2. Clogged line
3. Clogged filter
4. LP pump running but not producing pressure. It's in the right rear wheel arch.

Click to expand...

The car's been in an accident on the LP pump side, suspension has been replaced. Car was working afterwards but inspecting the fuel pump behind the wheel, I can see the plastic cover is cracked. Could be from the accident or maybe not. Would explain the LP pump malfunctioning ? if I disconnect one of the hoses from the LP pump to the filter, can I check if the pump is working properly?

Kerberos said:

The car's been in an accident on the LP pump side, suspension has been replaced. Car was working afterwards but inspecting the fuel pump behind the wheel, I can see the plastic cover is cracked. Could be from the accident or maybe not. Would explain the LP pump malfunctioning ? if I disconnect one of the hoses from the LP pump to the filter, can I check if the pump is working properly?

Click to expand...

In that case, I would start at the LP pump and work forwards. Better still, lift the boot carpet, open the access plate underneath and trace the fuel lines from there all the way to the engine.

Does it start and run OK with easy start? If so it's probably not the pump. If it starts and immediately dies then I'd look to the pump. If it runs fine I'd check leak off on injectors as if one is leaking the engine won't start.

guineafowl21 said:

In that case, I would start at the LP pump and work forwards. Better still, lift the boot carpet, open the access plate underneath and trace the fuel lines from there all the way to the engine.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I would be checking the pipework, the joints in particular, from the tank to the pump. If one of the joints isn't sealing tight, air could be drawn in. Also make sure the sedimenter is emptied.

James Rogers said:

Does it start and run OK with easy start? If so it's probably not the pump. If it starts and immediately dies then I'd look to the pump. If it runs fine I'd check leak off on injectors as if one is leaking the engine won't start.

Click to expand...

It starts with 'easy start' but dies after 2 seconds, thus I'm going to check the pump, thanks.

Nodge68 said:

Agreed. I would be checking the pipework, the joints in particular, from the tank to the pump. If one of the joints isn't sealing tight, air could be drawn in. Also make sure the sedimenter is emptied.

Click to expand...

Will have a look this weekend, not enough time after work. Will keep you all updated anyway.

Thanks

Found the problem guys, here

The pump was working but couldn't get any fuel from the tank because the part where the hose goes was snapped thus getting just air in the pump. new Fuel sender ordered, and I put some loctite on the old one and joined them together as a temporary fix and now it works, don't know for how long though.