Series 3 How to fill the arches? - pics of your land please

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mikerajjers

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Bedford UK or Trnava SK
I've been trying to find a definitive article on wheel and tyre sizes for the series 3, but so far have only found bits and pieced. I'd like to fill the arches a bit, perhaps with wider wheels and tyres or just adding rims with a larger offset (or using spacers).

Here are the images of the ones I like online but I don't know the setups. Can people please post photos of their own with details about rims and tyres please? I've also added a photo of my S3 at the end with the cammo paint scheme - this is what it currently looks like.

It has 7.50 x 16 Goodyear G90s on what I think atre 5.5 rims
 

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stick a set of forward control rims (if you can afford the "rare tax" or 130" Ones if not OR Wolf rims and a set of 900x16s on....
I've been trying to find a definitive article on wheel and tyre sizes for the series 3, but so far have only found bits and pieced. I'd like to fill the arches a bit, perhaps with wider wheels and tyres or just adding rims with a larger offset (or using spacers).

Here are the images of the ones I like online but I don't know the setups. Can people please post photos of their own with details about rims and tyres please? I've also added a photo of my S3 at the end with the cammo paint scheme - this is what it currently looks like.

It has 7.50 x 16 Goodyear G90s on what I think atre 5.5 rims


 
Thanks for replies. Will get the wolf rims in due course. There's so much stuff I want to add that the original 3250 GBP I spent buying the S3 is going to double very easily :)

My first upgrade will be fitting parabolic springs - most likely rocky mountain - and new shocks
Second will be getting rid of the camouflage paint job - I've always wanted plain green - bought the paint already. Will be sanding it down and then spraying at home as I'm not bothered so much about the finish
Would also love a power steering kit, but that is quite pricey
 
I've been trying to find a definitive article on wheel and tyre sizes for the series 3, but so far have only found bits and pieced.
I have to ask, why do you think there is likely to be a 'definitive' answer in the first place??

I'd like to fill the arches a bit
Why?

, perhaps with wider wheels and tyres or just adding rims with a larger offset (or using spacers).
Normally when people say fill the arches, they mean the gap between the top of the tyre and the body work, are you meaning something else as you are talking width?

On a Series you are somewhat limited as to how wide you can go, else run the risk of the tyres sticking out of the arches. Which in the UK is illegal.

Here are the images of the ones I like online but I don't know the setups. Can people please post photos of their own with details about rims and tyres please? I've also added a photo of my S3 at the end with the cammo paint scheme - this is what it currently looks like.

It has 7.50 x 16 Goodyear G90s on what I think atre 5.5 rims
A 7.50 x 16 is a good size for a Series. These tend to measure 29-31" tall (some just under 32" tall). And are narrow.

Narrow is good as they generally work better off road in the UK, have less rolling resistance, which normally translates to better mpg on the road. Make the steering easier to turn and are unlikely to rub on much.

I admit standard wheels to tend to tuck the tyres in somewhat, which might be what you are meaning.

You could run some wheel spacers, but a better solution would probably be to simply buy some 8 spoke or modular rims. Most of these will move the rims out and give a wider track. However there are a lot of different rim offsets, so you'll need to research which ones you want.

If you want to keep the standard rim look, then spacers would be your easier option. As someone mentioned above, there are other standard rims that have a different offset. The most common being known as One Ton/1 Ton or 130 rims. These can be found fairly easily and at somewhat sensible money.

The Series 2B rims have an even deeper dish again, but these are very rare and go for silly money. So I'd say probably don't even waste your time looking for them.

If you are looking at LR standard rims, make sure you read up and understand the differences between a tubed rim and a tubeless one. Running a tubeless tyre on a tubed rim is potentially very dangerous and somewhat stupid.

Note, that making the vehicle track wider by offset rims or wheelspacers can have negative results on the steering, induce more bump steer, change the scrub radius and may affect bearing wear.

None of these are reasons not to do it, but are things you should consider and understand.

As for other tyre sizes. A wider tyre might give you the look you want. A 235/85R16 is about the same height as a 7.50 x 16, but wider. So can give a chunkier look.

However note, technically 235's should not be fitted to a standard Series rim. The rim is too narrow and no tyre makers recommend 235's on a 5.5j rim.

That said, the tyre market is odd and many 7.50's (remoulds) are actually just re-stamped 235's and 7.50's can go on a 5.5j rim. Note, your G90's are actually a proper 7.50 and a lot narrower than a 235.

Wider tyres are more likely to rub parts of the vehicle. So at full steering lock you might rub the leaf springs. Which is usually why people use wider offset rims with wider tyres. To preserve the turning circle. But as said earlier, on a Series you can easily end up with the tyres outside the body work. You could fit Defender style wheel spats or some other arch extension to cover the tyre.


There are other wider tyres too. A 265/75R16. Again, similar height to a 7.50 but wider than a 235. This is a common size on late Defenders. But to keep them in the arches and retain full steering lock on a Series might be a challenge.

31.10.50R15, these are similar width to the 265's and maybe an inch shorter depending on the exact brand of tyre. And I believe would have been standard fitment in markets like the USA where 16" tyres where not the norm.


There are other bigger taller tyres as well. Someone mentioned a 9.00 x 16 earlier. This is two sizes up from a 7.50 x 16. So they are 9" wide instead of 7.5" and usually a lot taller. Land Rover actually fitted these to the One Ton variant of the 109 as standard fitment, however those have different spring hangers and mounts, which give it a couple of inch suspension lift.

Things to remember with large tyres. They weigh more, so harder to lift on and off. But also have more inertia, so more likely to break axles and/or gearboxes with them. More likely to rub and you will loose steering lock with them.

9.00 x 16 is also a rare size these days. Which means very little choice of tyre treads and can be horrendously expensive.

Sizes also vary, anywhere from 33-36" depending on make and tread pattern.


A 255/85R16 might be an interesting size to look at. Somewhat rare, but mainstream for lots of tyre makers like BFG, Maxxis, Toyo, etc. These are slightly wider than a 235, but not as wide as a 265. They are however just over 33" tall, giving them a heigh advantage of 1-2"+ over most 235/265/7.50 tyres.
 
I have to ask, why do you think there is likely to be a 'definitive' answer in the first place??


Why?


Normally when people say fill the arches, they mean the gap between the top of the tyre and the body work, are you meaning something else as you are talking width?

On a Series you are somewhat limited as to how wide you can go, else run the risk of the tyres sticking out of the arches. Which in the UK is illegal.


A 7.50 x 16 is a good size for a Series. These tend to measure 29-31" tall (some just under 32" tall). And are narrow.

Thank you 300bhp/ton for your very comprehensive reply and willingness to help! I appreciate that you have taken the time! :) Your answer is pretty much the definitive answer...all the options listed and points explained! :)

The reason I'd like to 'fill the arch' is largely for aesthetics, I feel the wheels are tucked in too much and I would rather have a wider track - either by offset / spacers or tyre width (or a mix). There is also a practical reason, the side stability should be greater when on an incline and also my car transporter trailer is designed for modern wider tracked vehicles and the S3 only just fits. I don't really want to increase the tyre diameter/circumference as I haven't had very good experience doing so on my Discovery 2 (for the reasons you've mentioned).

I've been looking at getting the Wolf wheels from Paddocks...they list them as offset 20mm so should stick out a bit more + they are an inch wider. I'd probably keep the G90s on for now, possibly changing to a 235/85/16 AT tyre for the winter. The G90s don't look particularly suitable for snow and ice and the compound looks quite hard. Do you know what the offset is for the standard 5.5" rims? Is it zero? I've had Hankook Dynapro ATs on two other cars and they have been very capable off road as well as on road and even snow.

The steering may be affected, but I have been toying with the thought of fitting a power steering unit. Its quite expensive so will need to give it some more thought.
 
Afraid I don't know what offset standard LR rims are, as I never run them. I do have this list, which you might find helpful however.




Re: power steering.

When all working properly, standard Series steering on road should actually be quite manageable and light. Almost light enough to palm the wheel while stationary.

However there are lots of linkages and places where slop and wear can be. And to replace all of it can get costly.

Off road PAS plays a much bigger role however, due to the kickback you get through the steering wheel.

There are many ways to fit different types of PAS to a Series. Arguably a p38a steering box is the easiest at present. Check out my build thread (link in my sig). As that is what I did to mine.

If you retaining a standard Series engine, the only additional thing you'd need to do, is rig up the drive system for the PAS pump. But should be fairly easy.
 
Re: power steering.

When all working properly, standard Series steering on road should actually be quite manageable and light. Almost light enough to palm the wheel while stationary.

However there are lots of linkages and places where slop and wear can be. And to replace all of it can get costly.

Off road PAS plays a much bigger role however, due to the kickback you get through the steering wheel.

There are many ways to fit different types of PAS to a Series. Arguably a p38a steering box is the easiest at present. Check out my build thread (link in my sig). As that is what I did to mine.

If you retaining a standard Series engine, the only additional thing you'd need to do, is rig up the drive system for the PAS pump. But should be fairly easy.

I like your rebuild and that power steering solution looks very good! Problem is my skills are very limited :) I'll watch out for an LHD p38 box and get all the parts. Hopefully I'll find somebody over here in Slovakia that will be able to help me...unfortunately land rovers aren't very common over here...well at least not the old ones :) .. let me know if you fancy coming over and helping me out :) :) :)

I've also been looking at the heystee kit, but the p38 looks like a better solution
 
Re: power steering.

When all working properly, standard Series steering on road should actually be quite manageable and light. Almost light enough to palm the wheel while stationary.

If you retaining a standard Series engine, the only additional thing you'd need to do, is rig up the drive system for the PAS pump. But should be fairly easy.

What steering column did you use? From any Defender? I've just bought a LHD power steering box from Germany off ebay at 130 euros. a little pricey, but they are hard to come by and anyway, a lot cheaper than the heystee set
 
Pretty much any Defender one. Bought mine from a person braking a 90 on eBay. The only thing that might matter is steering wheel fitment. There have been 3 different steering wheel spline fitments over the years. If you have a steering wheel you want to refit, you may want the right steering wheel spline. If not. Then yes, any from a Defender.
 
Got my rear tyres on today before it rained. They are new. You can see I went with shinny unpainted birmabright inside the wheel wells. What a job cleaning the loads and loads of dirt plus flaky underbody/rubberized paint gunk off. 7.50-16 Off-road/military knobbies. Says tubeless, I did'nt pay attention when fitted to rim, I thought I asked for the tubed ones, not sure how to tell if there is a tube inside.
 

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Got my rear tyres on today before it rained. They are new. You can see I went with shinny unpainted birmabright inside the wheel wells. What a job cleaning the loads and loads of dirt plus flaky underbody/rubberized paint gunk off. 7.50-16 Off-road/military knobbies. Says tubeless, I did'nt pay attention when fitted to rim, I thought I asked for the tubed ones, not sure how to tell if there is a tube inside.
Nice Land Rover mate! I wish mine was in that condition. I see you are living in Thailand, was over there a few years ago and wandered over to Malaysia as well. Have you ever been to the Cameron Highlands? There were thousands of old landrovers there.... http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...s-land-rovers-of-malaysias-cameron-highlands/
 
I wonder if there are any originals in the whole lot? What I see on mine is metric bolts cross threaded then snapped where a bsf would go. Rounded out bolt heads from using the wrong spanner. Missing grommets, and blanking plugs, gaters allowing for rats to enter and eat wires. All in my area have different gearboxes, engines, seats, dash. The only thing land rover is the body and frame unfortunately. No concept of classic vehicle here. I got a lot of puzzled looks when I bought a 50 year old Series truck in the village, and not a new Toyota something. Now I get asked if I want to sell all the time, and its all low ball, insulting offers. I think the best place if a person is looking for originality is ex-army auctions. That time may have well have passed too. To many "hands in the cookie jar" on the civilian side making modifications for it to be worth the expense of putting it back to original.
 
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