How heavy should steering be?

Hi folks, I apologise if this is going slightly off tangent from my previous thread, but matters have taken a rather unhappy twist.
So, I bought my late Series 3 from a 4x4 dealer, and it supposedly came with a new MOT, full service and 12 months warranty.
First issue I noticed was the steering, I know it doesn't have power steering but I've had plenty of cars which didn't either, and they were nothing like this. Heavy doesn't come into it, you're fighting to keep it in a straight line and on braking it pulls sharply to the right, and I mean sharply. I pulled up to a roundabout and immediately veered across the right hand carriageway. If another vehicle had been there it would have been carnage.
Trying to recentre the steering wheel it spun back to the right taking my arm with it cracking my elbow against the window. That neither broke is a minor miracle.
The dealers are trying to shift the issue to me saying I'm just not used to a vehicle without power steering. So, here's my question: just how heavy is yours? Can your wives / girlfriends drive your Series 3 without issue? Can they get it to turn a corner without fighting it to the grim end?
This isn't the only issue that's been identified but at the moment it is the main one being argued over.
I have a horrible feeling the dealers in question will have been the subjects of other posts on here. (Googling them doesn't exactly bring forth a stream of good reviews.)

A brake is binding or one ain’t working.

how big are the tyres.
It’s hard enough with standard ones.

should only be stiff when stood or manoeuvring very slowly, and brakes are balanced if it shooting you across the road

Hmmm, that's something the dealers started to try and use as an excuse; brakes are binding or a freewheeling hub has an issue.
-The tyres look to be standard. It's not a monster truck type monstrosity.
Apparently it does have freewheeling hubs fitted through the dealers didn't appear to know this.

Brakes not balanced as above almost certainly the front brakes need adjusting / checking
If it’s been mot Ed then the brakes should pull up straight, if not get it sorted quick , I had a similar experience and just missed a bus coming the other way , so check,them with a hard press In The open
you don’t drive these as you would a normal car so taking corners are slow at least until you get more experience
The wandering steering can to be various things such as the ball joints wear, loose wheel bearings I think you are allowed about 2” play on the circumference before wheels move , steering box can be adjusted to take up play
The front shoes can also dig into the drum and lock the wheel which can pull it over to one side
Putting a chamfer on the End of the shoes fixes this

A decent series with modern tyres, on a flat surface, should hold a straight line no problem, once you're moving, the steering shouldn't be heavy, though you need to plan slow manoeuvres as you shouldn't be heaving on wheel while stationary.
The brakes aren't bad either, but they are drums and can overheat easier than discs. They also don't like getting full of water or mud, again, drive accordingly

You have several problems, the first one is to pull the drum on the side that's not stopping, odds on its full of oil. It should stop in a straight line.before you get onto the steering. Since this is a dealer purchase I would pay for an engineers report rather than get into repeated technical arguments. You want it back at the dealers and fixed at their expense, focus on that not on the idividual faults or you will get "salami sliced" fault by fault and neve get a fully fixed vehicle.

My series 3 was exactly as you described when I first bought it with the addition of some very worrying noises. When I took the drums off, I found the shoes had worn very unevenly, the edge of the brake lining facing me had worn almost to the metal but the opposite edge had hardly worn at all. Fitting new shoes and adjusting them made a world of difference. To try to make the beast steer better, I replaced all the ball joints, adjusted the steering box and replaced the wheels and tries for new defender ones then had the tracking done. It's still not great but the 109 station wagon is a heavy vehicle with poor steering lock. My wife can drive it but she doesn't enjoy it much and I don't encourage it.

Col

Fighting to keep it in a straight line generally means that the steering box is worn or needs adjustment. The worm wears and allows the balls to move, causing play, and once the top/bottom bearings have play it adds to the issue. Tweaking the adjuster will take up some of the play from a worn worm, but worn bearings need replacing and re-shimming.

Take it back to the dealer and get them to fix it. The others have covered the pulling to one side issue well, leaky wheel cylinders will soak the linings too.

The relay in the front crossmember can make it tight if it runs out of oil, but it doesn't generally cause play as the bushing is spring loaded.

Check the ball joints first though (there's 6 in the system!), and make sure the pinch bolts are all present. They can rust and fall out, allowing the ball joint to move in the rod.

To give you an idea of how heavy it should be, I've recently rebuilt my S3's entire steering system with new steering box internals/top column bearing, all new ball joints, rebuilt swivels and relay and I'm on big 235/85 tyres; standing still, I can crank the wheels from side to side with one arm.

if the steering relay is in a bad state, like mine was, it can compound issues of wear elsewhere. I had to rebuild mine, the book said tap gently with a mallet to remove from chassis, thats a laugh!

True that. I welded up an 'adaptor' for an electric demolition hammer to drive it out as a lump hammer wasn't touching it. 30 seconds of rattle and a bit of heat and it dropped out.

Trouble is it will be at least two of the steering box, relay, ball joints, brake cylinders, hub seals, and while some of these are easy-ish, all can become major repairs with a huge amount of labour. Take the hub seal, £2 but if the land is gone and its not replacable, £200, relay £3 in oil to refill, or overhaulled unit £100 or chassis front end to get it out, north of £1000 at a garage. Get the dealer to diagnose and fix.

Thanks for all the comments folks.
Upshot is that after a great deal of unpleasantness it's gone back to the dealers. It was supposed to have had a full service the day it was delivered to me; I have their branded service book with their stamp in for that day, but it clearly hasn't had any form of attention for a very long time. The engine oil was the colour and consistency of molten liquorice (and dripping enthusiastically from the undercarriage), the brake fluid was barely at the minimum mark and the coolant cap was seized solid. The dashboard lights didn't work, the interior light didn't work and neither did the front windscreen washer. Looking back through the historic paperwork that came with it seized or binding brakes have been a long running issue.
My next battle is to try and get the road tax back as I taxed it with the new keepers supplement but the dealers claim to have sent the V5 in by post rather than using the instant online facility.
Pfffffff.
It's been a pretty horrible eye opener and wake up call that there are still an awful lot of rogue dealers out there.

Margo Ledbetter said:

Thanks for all the comments folks.
Upshot is that after a great deal of unpleasantness it's gone back to the dealers. It was supposed to have had a full service the day it was delivered to me; I have their branded service book with their stamp in for that day, but it clearly hasn't had any form of attention for a very long time. The engine oil was the colour and consistency of molten liquorice (and dripping enthusiastically from the undercarriage), the brake fluid was barely at the minimum mark and the coolant cap was seized solid. The dashboard lights didn't work, the interior light didn't work and neither did the front windscreen washer. Looking back through the historic paperwork that came with it seized or binding brakes have been a long running issue.
My next battle is to try and get the road tax back as I taxed it with the new keepers supplement but the dealers claim to have sent the V5 in by post rather than using the instant online facility.
Pfffffff.
It's been a pretty horrible eye opener and wake up call that there are still an awful lot of rogue dealers out there.

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I think that you can declare it sorn just from the registration

1 Agreed, declare it SORN on line from the reg, the unused tax will be refunded by post after a few weeks, its automatic. You'll have to write off a month.
2 Best outcome re garage. They clearly did not do the work they said and sold a vehicle in a dangerous condition. I would get trading standards involved:
- This is not likely to end with you and the dealer being freinds so you may as fight for your rights - best outcome from here is you get all your money back.
- You will not trust the vehicle after this dealer has fixed it so if you really want THIS series then you need it fixed somethere esle at the dealers expense, that won't happen without pressure from outside, ie Trading Standards
- It's very likely Trading Standards know the dealer, this is very unlikely to be a one off. This will help you decide.
- Selling vehicles that are dangerous is a crime and it should be reported to protect others, its a civic duty.

Unfortunately, I can't declare it SORN as I only have the new keeper slip and the dealers *claim* to have posted the V5 to the DVLA despite knowing there's a huge backlog due to the current situation. The only way around this would be to fill in the various DVLA forms to register the car using just the V5C and declare it SORN at the same time...only I need the vehicles VIN number to do this, and I don't have that.
To really rub the salt in, the dealership has just relisted the vehicle for sale at £1000 more than I paid, which rather beggers the question how exactly they intend to sell a vehicle for which they are not yet the registered keepers.

After I sent yet another scathing email to the dealers today they suddenly decided to do the V5 transfer online, so I have an email now from the DVLA telling me this has been done, but going online their website still isn't recognising the details on the V5C. What I don't know is what date they've declared the sale to have taken place; it was 11 days ago, so if they've only declared the sale today then the tax I paid will presumably be returned to them and not me.
Trading Standards are aware of this bunch of cowboys, a simple Google search throws up details of a CCJ against them for false representations of another companies warranties and the Google reviews are quite enlightening. The firm advertises a lot of Defenders as being exportable and clearly sell a lot to the States, at which point the buyers realise just what nice glossy photos can hide. When I raised the issue with this Series they tried to persuade me to take one of their Defenders instead. An online MOT search showed it had failed a test for, amongst many other things, an inoperable handbrake. New MOT now passed top of the advisories was that the parking brake was 'barely operable'. Every single one of the Defenders there had been re-sprayed (an entirely different colour), and not terribly well. Original paint was visible were tape had been badly applied and there was overspray on windows. The paint finish is what would be commonly described as 'orange peel' in appearance, so slightly matt and with pit marks where filler had been smothered into dints and dents.
If anyone is looking for a Series 3 maybe give the one that's just re-appeared on Autotrader a wide berth.

Well its sounds like you have had a very lucky escape!
Re the SORN, a while back I helped a guy who had no internet, lost the log book and couldn't read (!) I phoned the DVLA on his behapf and explained and they were really helpful, they did the SORN over the phone working from the reg and his address. OK in thei case its the dealer but you could explain that and they will see the transfer on their system.
Going forward I suggest you find some members on here who are local and arrange to visit them and look at their Series. Everyone on here likes talking about their Landys and I'm sure would be more than happy to show you what to look for and how they should drive.
I'm in Slough and will certainly extend that offer to get the ball rolling.
They are not the easiet things to drive but I did 200 miles in the last 3 days and I'll do 250 this coming week as we are doing camping trips so you can see yours was very wrong.

Thanks Rob, that's' definitely something I'll look to do in the future. I'm in the middle of a rather nasty 3-yr-and-counting litigation with a cowboy builder who pretty much wrecked my house so buying the Series was supposed to be a bit of let up in all the angst. Never mind, hindsights great isn't it! The building legal action is starting to pick up speed again now so I'll have to look again at getting a Landy once this is done with.
I'll be giving the DVLA a call first thing Monday morning to see what they can advise about the tax.
Talking to the dealer, or one of the three who seem to run the place, was most surreal. In defending the vehicles un-driveability it was very much "yeah, well what do you expect?". In his opinion, they weren't suitable for going on a motorway and he couldn't imagine being able to spend more than an hour in one at a time. When I went to the dealership in trying to get a refund my father came with me; he used to drive these regularly in the 1970's and would think nothing of travelling over a hundred miles with his colleagues doing field crop trials. My father was questioning the dealer about the brake issue and was asking him about the adjustments that could be made and it became blatantly obvious that the dealer hadn't got a clue about any of the mechanical aspects.
But the best bit, ready for this...in asking about the servicing the dealer was adamant they always changed the oil filters.
Erm?
Yep, apparently a full service means you change the oil filter.
Given the state of the oil in the one I had I doubt they could find it. It may have already dissolved.

Margo Ledbetter said:

Thanks Rob, that's' definitely something I'll look to do in the future. I'm in the middle of a rather nasty 3-yr-and-counting litigation with a cowboy builder who pretty much wrecked my house so buying the Series was supposed to be a bit of let up in all the angst. Never mind, hindsights great isn't it! The building legal action is starting to pick up speed again now so I'll have to look again at getting a Landy once this is done with.
I'll be giving the DVLA a call first thing Monday morning to see what they can advise about the tax.
Talking to the dealer, or one of the three who seem to run the place, was most surreal. In defending the vehicles un-driveability it was very much "yeah, well what do you expect?". In his opinion, they weren't suitable for going on a motorway and he couldn't imagine being able to spend more than an hour in one at a time. When I went to the dealership in trying to get a refund my father came with me; he used to drive these regularly in the 1970's and would think nothing of travelling over a hundred miles with his colleagues doing field crop trials. My father was questioning the dealer about the brake issue and was asking him about the adjustments that could be made and it became blatantly obvious that the dealer hadn't got a clue about any of the mechanical aspects.
But the best bit, ready for this...in asking about the servicing the dealer was adamant they always changed the oil filters.
Erm?
Yep, apparently a full service means you change the oil filter.
Given the state of the oil in the one I had I doubt they could find it. It may have already dissolved.

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Dare I ask how much you paid for said vehicle?

£7995