Head Gasket Failure etc

This is a long winded post, but please stick with it.

Bought L reg 1994 300tdi Disco in a bit of an emergency (don't ask) back in Sept 2011.

Drove it from Worcester to Leeds, then a week later, Leeds back to Worcester to tow back a caravan. On the way back from Worcester coming up long slog of a hill on the M62 the Disco overheats – we whack fan on high and keep going – temp gauge eventually comes down.

Think nothing of it, not really knowing Discos. Few weeks later car overheats again, but on normal roads, this time steam spewing from engine bay (I wasn’t driving) car brought home on recovery truck.

We check out water situation and top all up as required. Seems ok now. But no heat from heater and using water each journey.

I fix heater by draining coolant, flushing radiator, flushing heater matrix and topping up/bleeding.

Still uses water and steam/smoke now getting bad from exhaust. Shot a can of Radweld Plus in it. Stops steam and water use much reduced. Each journey we check water level and top up expansion tank as required (knowing the underlying issue is still there).

After few weeks smoke returns and water use goes up again. Decide to change head gasket.

Job went fine, albeit took me best part of three days! Note we DID NOT have the head tested for flat : (

Car starts rough, spits a few sparks out of exhaust etc. Take for v quick drive and overheats almost straight away. Another coolant bleed and now have heat and runs ok.

So we use car for a bit and sadly notice its still smoking and still using water - clearly wasn't just the gasket, head must be out of flat or worse still cracked : ( Sadly no time to get it sorted and can't afford to pay to have it fixed.

Live with it for a bit and end up with another can of Radweld Plus in it to tide us over. Each journey water levels get checked and topped up. Not much smoke but still using water.

This Weds just gone while away in Derbyshire caravanning, while heading up over a v steep hill (not with caravan on the back) notice the temp gauge start rising!! Pull over and let cool and carry on. Check level of expansion later once cooled and it did need some but not loads.

Set off back towards Huddersfield from Derbyshire - noticed NO HEAT from heater (!) and car starts to cook again. Steam from exhaust on overrun and idle. Pull over and let it cool, top up. This keeps going till we get to where we need to be (inc some scary side of motorway stops). Noticed when we stopped there was a rumbling sort of feel through the steering wheel for a few secs after stopping - I'll come back to this...

So we park car and leave for 3 hours while we're at a gig.

On our return to car we take off radiator cap and fill - it takes about 5 litres of water so must have been v dry. Also top up via stat and check all levels ok.

Still no heat from heater. Miles away from home, no tools, need to go back to Derbyshire to caravan, p'ssing it down, cold, etc etc.

Try setting off and starts to overheat again. So head for home (Leeds) leaving our holiday.

Thursday, I bleed coolant, flush radiator, flush heater matrix, and top up again. With car up steep hill, via expansion tank, then via radiator, then stat screw (as per below)

(Add correct mix of coolant into expansion tank until radiator is full (as seen through plug hole on top of radiator). Fit radiator plug. Continue adding coolant into expansion tank until coolant appears in thermostat housing. Fit thermostat housing plug. Check coolant in expansion tank is level with indicator post. Add more coolant if necessary. Start engine and run for 5 minutes. Allow engine to cool, check coolant level in expansion tank; top up to level indicator post if necessary. Fit expansion tank filler cap.)

Still no heat from heater after all this. Attempt to set of back to Derbyshire for caravan, overheats about 5 mins in to journey. Drive back home and dump car to find alternative to get caravan home : (

Which kind of brings me to here...

So when the car is running now, if I top up the levels as per above guide as soon as I start it, it p#sses coolant out of the expansion tank.

Once its stopped doing that, it settles down, but still no heat from heater, and eventually when driving uphill, overheats. Varying amounts of smoke/steam from nothing, to a bit of white smoke/steam.

The rumble noise I mentioned earlier, I've since found out is bubbles going into the expansion tank.

If I remove the expansion tank lid with it running there's a constant stream of bubbles coming into it from the SMALLER inlet (from the thermostat or radiator purge hoses) and either steam or smoke rises from the tank.

The same thing happens with the thermostat cap or radiator cap removed. I noticed the levels had dropped in the radiator a lot once its dumped loads from expansion tank.

So, I think I know the answer to this (as I probs knew all along), I guess the head has gone and is either warped or cracked. Now I know we should have had that checked first time round and saved all this messing on, but time/money/brains were not on our side first time we did this.

So from the above symptoms does it sound like head gasket? With no heat and the expansion tank seemingly getting filled with gases (exhaust?) and the smoke from the exhaust?

I've got a place in Bradford (Bradford Enging Units Parry Lane) lined up to test and flat head if needs be.

So that's today sorted.

IF the head is off flat, and he can shave some off to flatten it, I appreciated I will need to adjust valve timings etc and possibly a new gasket.

When I changed the old gasket, first time round it was a 3 that was in it, so it was replaced with another 3 hole. I assume if I need it skimming I'll need the next thickness up (no holes?)

Not sure what else I need to ask, the bolts were replaced last time, as was the rocker cover gasket, and the manifold gasket, so I think I'm ok to use those again.

What else do i need to be thinking about?

Is there any likelyhood that the water pump might be dead? How would I know that without removing it? Would it overheat much quicker if that was dead?

Thanks in anticipation

David
PS finally, i'd fitted an EGR blanking plate last weekend, there's no coincidence in this last set of issue and that are there???

BTW the last gasket was a genuine ELRING 3 hole one supplied by Adventure 4x4 Leeds.

the head will be fecked.. the amount of times it has been cooked. The heads are aluminum. You have to use the old style gaskets with the old style head. Chances are you will need a new head There about £300 + Vat. I would replace the head bolts as they have already been stretched. when i changed the water pump and thermostat on mine i had a bugger of a time getting all of the air out of it. if the pump isn't pumping you wont see it circulating with the rad plug off and a gentle rev. You have to be sure it was head gasket failure the was the first problem so you dont replace it and then knacker a new head. The expansion tank cap have been know to go wonky, Did/ has the thermostat failed ?? might be worth replacing these at the same time. If your unsure of the water pump replace it there only about £40 for OEM. Also the temp gauges are ****e you need to double check with a thermometer

I have had exactly the same problem tonight in Devon. I noticed the smell of burningoil in the cab so pulled over to find a small hose had came dettached and coolant was missing. The smell of oil was coming from a gasket about 2 inches down from the top.
A friend bought some water out to me and we reconnected the hose and topped it up. We were unable to remove the rad washer and therefore only filled it using the expansion tank and massaging the hoses.
I noticed there was no heat coming from the heater and after a few minutes the temp would start rising so we pulled over again.
It has not lost any oil, infact there was slightly too much in there to start with so we are presuming that we have not bled the system properly???

Head gasket issues left on these engines eat heads

soon as yer head gasket cooks its a compulsary must need to do job to get the head skimmed polished and pressure tested then when reassembling the engine take note of the torqueing order for the head bolts and torque settings as per the instruction leaflet that comes with the gasket not the haynes book of bumfluff

as for your head id get an engineer to reflat it and pressure test it to see if its salvageable before spending a mint on a new head if it is salvageable it will work out cheaper to recondition than replace with brand new

Thanks Guys,

My head is off for a test on Fri, where they test to see if fumes are in the water or something...is this a pressure test?
So, Im preparing myself for a big hit in the wallet. While its all apart I have been told by the garage to get the alignmnet pulley, water pump, belt and cambbelt done....is this recommended or is he fishing for more work?

Jay

He may be fishing , but it's a bloody good idea , I would .Do it once do it right !

fumes in the water,sounds like a sniff test-not a pressure test

I have been looking at replacing the head for a new one in one of these kits...Is it just a case of taking off the old one and replacing it with the new one or will it need any serious setting up with special equipment?

If you need a new head, then bite the bullet and get a Turner Engineering Performance head. I know it costs over £600 but you'll save that in diesel in under a year. Mine 95 300tdi went from 21mpg with a knackered head to 39mpg with a performance head.

nice write up!
classic bent head / blown gasket.
bradford engine units a good choice, would recomend them.
have you got this sorted yet?

Hi all, sorry to side track this thread, but on the subject of headgaskets!

What are people thoughts on pre-empting a head gasket failure?

I have a 90 300tdi, no symptoms of head gasket failure but 130k n the clock. I did have a loss of water and slight overheating a few months ago but sourced it to leaking water pump gasket, radweld dose and no problemsd since. I am just about to replace the timing belt, water pump, water pump gasket etc. At its recent MOT was chatting to the garage owner (NUTZ 4x4 in Southampton, highly recommend incidentaly), he suggested it was prob due a headgasket to go and to get the brass coolant plug as it was common that the plastic plugs burst and you can miss the indication of a headgasket failure.

Anyway I've jsut purchased the plug got me wondering if it would be worth just changing the headgasket regardless and avoiding the risk of A it happening at an inconvenient time and B dodging having to have the head skimmed and pressure tested.

What are peoples thoughts?
1. Is a 300tdi pretty much guaranteed to go soon after this milage or just luck of the draw? (i do no towing at the moment due to a rotten rear crossmember!)
2. If i do change it would I still be worth getting the head checked for cracks, even though I have no symptoms as yet?
3. Have many people suffered catastrophic failures, i.e no symptoms then bang, blocked screwed?

4. Finally, has anyone else experienced the improved fuel economy from the turner performance heads as quoted by Tuppy Trucker as this sounds well worth the investment! AT that improvement and current prices it wouldn't take many miles to pay for itself!

guys you don't need to touch the timing to change a head on a 300 tdi so yes he is fishing but always worth doing if you don't know when it was last done, no point in changing a head gasket for fun no, but if you use rad weld then you are asking for future probs if you had a leaking gasket then you need to change it rad weld is for emergency's and even at that i would rather be towed than put that pish in a motor.if you have overheated for any reason don't just fill it up and crack on ,fix it or you will fook the head as stated these heads are not very robust under extreme heat