Gearchange - 2 - help!!

further to my earlier post "gearchange" - the problem has now got worse.

got in car this morning drove to petrol station with no problem - arrived at forecourt and couldnt select any gear !!

If I turn car off it will then go into gear and start ok - I can then drive throught the gears while moving - but when I come to go form 4 to 3 and 3 to 2 it wont go in gear !!!


Car recently had new slave etc

Any ideas ????


thanks

Chris

Yes, your clutch isn't disengaging properly and is dragging. Easy test is to put into reverse. As reverse doesn't have synchromesh on it then if the input shaft is still turning under power then the gears will grate. Check your clutch fluid level. Is it dropping? If so then you have a leak and the slave end is the most likely location, although check the master end as well. A new slave cylinder doesn't necessarily mean a healthy slave cylinder, it might be faulty. If no leak then bleed the clutch release system as it sounds like there is air in there. Failing that then the only thing left is the master cylinder.

Did you have the slave changed by a garage, if so then take the thing back and tell them to do it properly.

Good luck.

Darmain

yes - grating when going for reverse

Its an L series so master and slave changed together

Unfortunately the garage that did it has gone bust

disconnected slave end and noticed a piece of plastic seems to have snapped of the locating plate - not sure what effect that would have ??

put it back on and now I can get gears - very difficult but i can get em !!

no fluid leaks evident

Suppose first stop will be to replace master and slave assembly again ???


thanks


Chris

Just to add a little more info ......

with engine off all gears can be engaged.

If I select a gear then start car i can drive off as usual

If clutch wasnt releasing would car not jump forward when i start it in gear ??

excuse my ignorance< i know nothing about clutches !!!!

Chris

It could be the clutch release arm/shaft seizing in its bushes. An indication of this is if you can see the slave bracket flexing when somebody operates the clutch.
The extra effort to move a seizing mechanism flexes the bracket and loses valuable travel needed for the clutch to clear. Also could be the cause of the broken plastic.

Drop the slave cylinder off and see if you can move the arm manually.

Copious amounts of WD40 might help otherwise it's box out to free it off.

bracket doesnt seem to flex and pedal operation is smooth and doesnt require lots of effort !!!

will try the wd40 though !!!

strange that taking off slave and refitting at least gave me some gears (even though they are still difficult )

suppose other than the wd40, new slave and master is cheapest option !!?

Now the funny thing is I have the same problem. I asked the mechanic at my garage and he reaconed the release arm bush was siezed as well. I took the slave cylinder off and operated the release arm by hand. The play in the release mechanism showed that the bush was definately not siezed. The slave cylinder is seen to distort on its bracket when the pedal is operated.

Now I would have come to the same conclusion as you Chaser in saying that the problem is inside the bell housing except for one thing. It only happens if the slave cylinder is hot. For example, if the air conditioning is on then its much worse due to the heat coming off the condenser. If the weather is hot its not good either. However, if the slave is hot and playing up and I send a stream of cold water onto it then the problem is cured in seconds.

To be honest the problem is not bad enough to warrant a box out job. So I'll put up with it until the clutch wears out then sort the thing properley.

To answer your question C13tay about why the car doesn't lurch at start up. The problem isn't the clutch isn't releasing at all, the problem is the clutch has not releasing completely. Therefore the friction plate drags slightly on the fly wheel / pressure plate. The lay shaft that runs from the clutch to the gearbox is still being spun, but with effort it can be stopped. Now the gearbox synchromesh employs something called 'Cones' which are effectively clutches in their own right. They engage as you slide the gear lever towards the gear you require so to 'synchronise' the input shaft to the output shaft so that the gears are rotating at the same speed to allow a non-crunch engagement as you complete the shift into gear. Now as the clutch is dragging, it has more friction than the cones can apply so the gears can not synchronise properley. There is a second mechanism which I admit that I do not understand at the moment which holds the gear from engaging until synchronism has occurred. Because synch can not be achieved then the gear won't engage. Now, if you put the car in gear and then start the engine then the wheels gripping the road is what the clutch has to fight against and it definately can not win over that. Hence you can then drop the clutch proper and drive away. Phew, I hope that makes sense.

well it hasnt fixed my clutch but brilliant explaination !!!!

suppose it depends on how worn your clutch is but at rest how much of the slave piston should be visible - if I have more than average then it would suggest that the lever from the bell isnt returning sufficiently ??


Chris

Interesting. I don't know what to make of the temperature and cold water cure??

It would be a good idea to strengthen the bracket or somehow eliminate that slave movement though as it only results in lost travel of the release mechanism.

Chaser said:

Interesting. I don't know what to make of the temperature and cold water cure??

It would be a good idea to strengthen the bracket or somehow eliminate that slave movement though as it only results in lost travel of the release mechanism.

Click to expand...

I had a close look at the cylinder and its steel bracket. The steel bracket does bend under load and the cylinder twists out of alignment. Now, either the bracket is badly designed or the whole system is under too much load. The clutch pedal has to be bured in the carpet to ensure full disengagement so there is a lot of wasted effort somewhere.

I managed to improve the situation marginally by turning the plastic locking clip so that is located on the gearbox side of the slave cylinder. This helped reduce the twisting of the whole assembly when the clutch was disengaged.

Well got in the car this morning to come to work.........

gear change is perfect !!!!!

wierd !!!!


Chris

Not weird at all. Mine does the same. Take it for a 20 minute drive with the air con on and see what happens then.

Been trying to think back to when this started .....

Its been doing this since I changed the glow plugs !! nothing to do with that you might think ........ well while I was doing the glow plugs I noticed that the clutch line wasnt in one of its clips (righthand side of engine bay as you look at it ) so I put it back in its clip.

Just as a little trial, ive pulled the line back out from that clip........ touch wood, clutch has been ok since !!!!!

Also, spoke to mechanic at Kentdale Landrover and from the symptoms ive describled he thinks its definately a hydraulic problem


Chris

Interesting. I'm gonna look at my hydralics now.

Darmain

You have any luck with the clutch ??

Im still touching wood and mines still ok !!!


Chris

Gonna look at it tonight with luck. Was giving me jip this morning so I'm unlikely to forget.

any joy ??

B******ks, had to work late last night and it was dark when I got home. S*d it, its lunch time. I'm going out and having a look at it know. Will know tonight if there is anything to report.

Right, been out and had a look. Conclusion, this master / slave unit has been changed before. The pipe from the master cylinder drops out the bottom, turns and passes through a pipe clip on one of the hydralic pipes to the power steering ram. Then it turns up and then carries alongside one of the brake pipes, to which it is held using a cable tie. Right in the corner of the bulk head it turns down but the forming misses the existing pipe clips. Then when it gets down to when the bulkhead meets the main structural member that holds the car together, it turns forward, over the transmission mount and sweeps down to the slave cylinder. On the way it is cable tied to the fuel send and return lines.

I can't see anything that would be responsible for the clutch not working properley, other than I would rather all that extra pipe length is taken out by make the route more direct. Nothing I can do about that at the moment.

Therefore I am wondering if the hydrolic fluid is contaminated with water. If I could, I'd change it and have done with it.

Ill check the routing of mine - I know mine has been changed and I know its not gen LR

Still touching wood and its still working !!!