fuel-burning heater

is it the freeloader TD4 that has a diesel-burning heater to supplement the
normal one?

if it's gonna be cold, I wouldn't mind one on the minibus... anyone know if
this is so or if it's available either new or s/h and how much?

Does it work by heating the coolant, or does it output directly to the
cabin?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

It is the freeloader Td4 that has one. It works very well, but I have no
idea how. It was under warranty so I never bother getting into anything
technical with it!

Stew.

--
1990 Ninety 2.5 n/a D (Jasmine) - the off-road toy
Ex- Freelander Td4 5dr owner - the worst vehicle I have ever had!!!
New Jeep Cherokee Ltd 2.8CRD Auto - freelander replacement.

Hi Austin, these are used on trucks as well they are called esparcher or
some thing like that. as far as I know they all heat air which is then blown
in to the passenger space, the burnt fumes are not mixed they exit the
heater via their own exhaust.
You do see them for sale second hand but are still dear.. hope this helps

Rich
--
To reply remove " spam "


"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> is it the freeloader TD4 that has a diesel-burning heater to supplement
the
> normal one?
>
> if it's gonna be cold, I wouldn't mind one on the minibus... anyone know
if
> this is so or if it's available either new or s/h and how much?
>
> Does it work by heating the coolant, or does it output directly to the
> cabin?
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
> face by frightening people in the street.
> from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:49:23 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>is it the freeloader TD4 that has a diesel-burning heater to supplement the
>normal one?
>
>if it's gonna be cold, I wouldn't mind one on the minibus... anyone know if
>this is so or if it's available either new or s/h and how much?

I believe eberspacher make diesel heaters too (the petrol ones on 101
ambis are very nice).
I think theyre used in lots of trucks and boats.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:49:23 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:

> is it the freeloader TD4 that has a diesel-burning heater to
> supplement the normal one?

I thought Discos had 'em available as an option. Some blooming weird
forgien name that I can never remember let alone spiel.

But google is your friend "diesel cab heater" produces the two makes
that I am aware of: Webasto or Eberspächer.

> Does it work by heating the coolant, or does it output directly to
> the cabin?

Output to the cabin but the exhuast goes outside of course, they
contain a heat exchanger.

They ain't cheap though, at least not new...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:50:08 GMT, "Rich"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Hi Austin, these are used on trucks as well they are called esparcher or
>some thing like that. as far as I know they all heat air which is then blown
>in to the passenger space, the burnt fumes are not mixed they exit the
>heater via their own exhaust.
>You do see them for sale second hand but are still dear.. hope this helps

eberspacher. Aye, I know about them. Will have to look into it.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There are three sorts of people in the world - those who can count,
and those who can't" (Anon)

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:52:56 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:50:08 GMT, "Rich"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Hi Austin, these are used on trucks as well they are called esparcher or
>>some thing like that. as far as I know they all heat air which is then blown
>>in to the passenger space, the burnt fumes are not mixed they exit the
>>heater via their own exhaust.
>>You do see them for sale second hand but are still dear.. hope this helps
>
>eberspacher. Aye, I know about them. Will have to look into it.

Ive just looked on ebay for em and theyre still damn expensive on
there
If the diesel ones kick out as much heat as the petrol ones then they
would make driving my 2A in the winter a lot nicer! (no heater atall
at the mo). It usually breaks ready for any snow so i dont get to
drive it but its actually healthy this year!

On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:08:47 +0000, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:52:56 +0000, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:50:08 GMT, "Rich"
>><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>Hi Austin, these are used on trucks as well they are called esparcher or
>>>some thing like that. as far as I know they all heat air which is then blown
>>>in to the passenger space, the burnt fumes are not mixed they exit the
>>>heater via their own exhaust.
>>>You do see them for sale second hand but are still dear.. hope this helps
>>
>>eberspacher. Aye, I know about them. Will have to look into it.
>
>Ive just looked on ebay for em and theyre still damn expensive on
>there
>If the diesel ones kick out as much heat as the petrol ones then they
>would make driving my 2A in the winter a lot nicer! (no heater atall
>at the mo). It usually breaks ready for any snow so i dont get to
>drive it but its actually healthy this year!

I was thinking about the minibus. The heater supplied would doubtless be
plenty good enough for a closed van cab, but combined with an efficient Di
diesel it doesn't really cut it for heating a greenhouse. And that's with a
new thermostat. It's just about OK with the sort of -2 or -3 temps we're
getting at the moment, once it's warmed up, which takes at least 10 minutes
of mixed driving.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
>
> I was thinking about the minibus. The heater supplied would doubtless
> be
> plenty good enough for a closed van cab, but combined with an
> efficient Di
> diesel it doesn't really cut it for heating a greenhouse. And that's
> with a
> new thermostat. It's just about OK with the sort of -2 or -3 temps
> we're
> getting at the moment, once it's warmed up, which takes at least 10
> minutes
> of mixed driving.

I have an elderly (let's be exact - 43-year-old) electric fan heater
that I stand in the boss's car before she goes out in the morning, for
anything up to half an hour. Costs very little as it's still Economy 7
period, and not only clears all the ice off the windows, but also warms
the structure of the car so that you notice the warm air from the car
heater so much sooner. It would be nice to have a big pair of live
contacts on the wall and a corresponding pair on the car, permanently
wired to the fan heater, but I don't think she could park it that
accurately (and that nice Mr Prescott might tell me it contravenes some
dull regulation or other).

One of those Kenlowe pre-heaters for the coolant would be nice, but
somehow they seem so much more trouble (and expense) than my wonderful
Ducal Aristocrat (honestly) fan heater.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. [email protected])***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby

In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> writes
>On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:50:08 GMT, "Rich"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Hi Austin, these are used on trucks as well they are called esparcher or
>>some thing like that. as far as I know they all heat air which is then blown
>>in to the passenger space, the burnt fumes are not mixed they exit the
>>heater via their own exhaust.
>>You do see them for sale second hand but are still dear.. hope this helps
>
>eberspacher. Aye, I know about them. Will have to look into it.

And Webasto. And there's one fitted on Sharan/Alhambra/Galaxy people
carriers (ours has one), and they often go "faulty", meaning smokey.

You might get a sub-standard one that's fixable off a garage.


Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

Austin Shackles wrote:

> if it's gonna be cold, I wouldn't mind one on the minibus... anyone know if
> this is so or if it's available either new or s/h and how much?
>
> Does it work by heating the coolant, or does it output directly to the
> cabin?

My Disco 1 diesel has a Webasto (thermo top C, auxiliary heating).
Works fine. It warms the coolant and when that reaches a certain
temperature it switches on the fan. No more cold starts. I love it.
Gets bloody hot inside, even in winter. Here:
http://www.standkachels.com/ is all you ever wanted to know about
standkachels, as we like to call them ("parking heaters". Eberspächer
and Webasto, parts, manuals (besides Dutch and German also English
ones), used units (6 for sale when I looked, just now), links,
downloads, howto's, you name it. But, it's in Dutch... However, for
used units look under "Te koop" (for exeample Webasto Thermo Top C
Diesel EUR 225, about GBP 170, I guess), used parts "Te koop
Onderdelen" and if you want to download manuals click "Download
manuals".

Also Webasto UK at: http://tinyurl.com/by3xm

Richard Kwakkel

On or around 23 Nov 2005 06:52:12 -0800, "Richard" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> if it's gonna be cold, I wouldn't mind one on the minibus... anyone know if
>> this is so or if it's available either new or s/h and how much?
>>
>> Does it work by heating the coolant, or does it output directly to the
>> cabin?
>
>My Disco 1 diesel has a Webasto (thermo top C, auxiliary heating).
>Works fine. It warms the coolant and when that reaches a certain
>temperature it switches on the fan. No more cold starts. I love it.
>Gets bloody hot inside, even in winter. Here:
>http://www.standkachels.com/ is all you ever wanted to know about
>standkachels, as we like to call them ("parking heaters".

ah, now that's a point. do any of 'em work with the vehicle in motion?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:00:38 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:

> ah, now that's a point. do any of 'em work with the vehicle in
> motion?

One that heats the normal coolant water, erm, what circulates that
from heater unit to heater matrix without the engine running? I can't
see a point of having running when in motion, plenty of "waste" heat
from the engine. Those that heat the air I can't see why not...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On or around Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:28:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:00:38 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> ah, now that's a point. do any of 'em work with the vehicle in
>> motion?
>
>One that heats the normal coolant water, erm, what circulates that
>from heater unit to heater matrix without the engine running? I can't
>see a point of having running when in motion, plenty of "waste" heat
>from the engine. Those that heat the air I can't see why not...

yebbut, that's the point, there isn't, not on this engine; when it've very
cold, the heater lowers the engine temperature, unless you're going uphill.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
George Orwell (1903 - 1950) Animal Farm

"SpamTrapSeeSig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> writes
>>On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:50:08 GMT, "Rich"
>><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>Hi Austin, these are used on trucks as well they are called esparcher or
>>>some thing like that. as far as I know they all heat air which is then
>>>blown
>>>in to the passenger space, the burnt fumes are not mixed they exit the
>>>heater via their own exhaust.
>>>You do see them for sale second hand but are still dear.. hope this helps
>>
>>eberspacher. Aye, I know about them. Will have to look into it.
>
> And Webasto. And there's one fitted on Sharan/Alhambra/Galaxy people
> carriers (ours has one), and they often go "faulty", meaning smokey.
>
> You might get a sub-standard one that's fixable off a garage.

I changed one of those at work (it was an eberspacher), looks like the glow
plug and the mesh tube that goes round the glow plug is fubar.
Unfortunately the control panel and the pump are still part of the car and
they are not cheap, mind ewe the heater itself was something like £400 on
it's own.
--
Jon

In article <[email protected]>, jOn
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"SpamTrapSeeSig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> And Webasto. And there's one fitted on Sharan/Alhambra/Galaxy people
>> carriers (ours has one), and they often go "faulty", meaning smokey.
>>
>> You might get a sub-standard one that's fixable off a garage.
>
>I changed one of those at work (it was an eberspacher), looks like the glow
>plug and the mesh tube that goes round the glow plug is fubar.
>Unfortunately the control panel and the pump are still part of the car and
>they are not cheap, mind ewe the heater itself was something like £400 on
>it's own.

Thanks. I consider myself duly warned.

Our Alhambra (02) has been a money pit, heading north of 1200
(out-of-warranty repairs). I like the design - every issue so far has
been quality-related. Given that our Eberspacher failed 18 months ago
and was changed out (under warranty) I think we'll be selling the
vehicle on ASAP (it's likely to go again in time). I'll not be buying
another VAG product any time soon (or a Ford-badged one).

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:28:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:00:38 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:
>>
>>> ah, now that's a point. do any of 'em work with the vehicle in
>>> motion?

>
> yebbut, that's the point, there isn't, not on this engine; when it've very
> cold, the heater lowers the engine temperature, unless you're going
> uphill.

Eberspacher (sp?!?) do but the 101 type are purely for heating air.
Available in both Petrol and Derv (petrol in 101's in the mainas standard)
A small petrol tank fitted cunningly will see your able to run independant
of the main tank.


http://www.101club.org/smallads.php zwon on here fersale. Plenty frequent
ebay.

Nowt like a steaming eber to warm your cockles.

Lee D

We had electric sherpa's for the electricity board and these had heated air
heaters as the only form of heating and they could run all the time
stationary or moving so I suspect the new ones can do the same thing
Rich
--
To reply remove " spam "


>
> ah, now that's a point. do any of 'em work with the vehicle in motion?
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
> from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:04:08 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:

> yebbut, that's the point, there isn't, not on this engine; when
> it've very cold, the heater lowers the engine temperature, unless
> you're going uphill.

Coming from a petrol background there has always been a lot of waste
heat... I did notice that my diesel DII had barely got out of the blue
zone this morning and stayed there even after idling for about 10mins,
this after driving 3 miles. The heater was just luke warm, mind there
was a fair 4C breeze outside, enough to rock the car a bit.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The Webasto does. Mine does, it completes the normal operating cycle
even if I start the engine. As I understand it, there are two types:
the Thermo Top Z, which is a "supplementary heater" and the Thermo Top
C, which is an "auxiliary heater". I've got the C-type. I start it
using a remote control (timer control on the dashboard is another
possibility) and after 30 to 45 minutes, depending on ambiant
temperature, the coolant reaches a certain temperature (around 72
degrees C, needle of the temp gauge just about horizontal) and the unit
switches off. The auxiliary heater is primarily used to preheat coolant
and engine, warm the cabin and defrost the windshield. The
supplementary heater is, and I quote, "intended to compensate for the
shortage in heat generated by engines optimised for low fuel
consumption [which rules out the Disco, I guess]." When a temp of 72
degress C is reached, the unit switches from full load to part load.
The supplementary goes into full load when the coolant temp falls to
about 65 degrees C. So the Z-type would be the one you want, I guess.

Years ago I used to drive buses. They were all equipped with these
Webasto supplementary heaters because the engines wouldn't reach normal
operating temperatures in winter. So "parking heater" might be a bit
misleading.

Google stopped sending me mails (I corrected that), so it took me some
time to reply. Sorry 'bout that.

Richard

Austin Shackles wrote:

> >My Disco 1 diesel has a Webasto (thermo top C, auxiliary heating).
> >Works fine. It warms the coolant and when that reaches a certain
> >temperature it switches on the fan. No more cold starts. I love it.
> >Gets bloody hot inside, even in winter. Here:
> >http://www.standkachels.com/ is all you ever wanted to know about
> >standkachels, as we like to call them ("parking heaters".
>
> ah, now that's a point. do any of 'em work with the vehicle in motion?