Front diff, locker or limited slip?

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A

asdf

Guest
Time to upgrade the front diff. Any stories? What experience
have people had with a full locker in the front differential?

-- Vic



 
It depends what vehicle and what purpose...

A front locker makes steering pretty hard and can more or less be only
used when needed on rock climbs and mud ..

A slip is more driveable but will only give you some traction to the
other wheel ..

If going for the locker make sure your axles will hold up to it. if you
have an IFS toyota they will not . I have such truck and use a
TrueTrack in front.

Matt

 
you could have the best of both worlds with a selectable locker such as an
ARB or OX locker (fully locked when you need them, open when you don't)


"asdf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Time to upgrade the front diff. Any stories? What experience
> have people had with a full locker in the front differential?
>
> -- Vic
>
>
>


 


Chuck Bremer wrote:
>
> you could have the best of both worlds with a selectable locker such as an
> ARB or OX locker (fully locked when you need them, open when you don't)

I suppose all lockers have this option.
Otherwise the car will be impossible to drive/steer on more solid
ground.
And on tarmac the car will fall apart.....
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
 
Erik-Jan Geniets wrote:
>
> Chuck Bremer wrote:
> >
> > you could have the best of both worlds with a selectable locker such as an
> > ARB or OX locker (fully locked when you need them, open when you don't)
>
> I suppose all lockers have this option.
> Otherwise the car will be impossible to drive/steer on more solid
> ground.
> And on tarmac the car will fall apart.....
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

No, very few lockers are manual. Most are just on so unless you can
unlock your front hubs, you don't want one in front.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
 
We have to distingiush between:

- Spool/Welded Diff
- Automatic Locker (not talking about slips here)
- Manual Locker

Listed in the order driveability .

Matt

 
Reverse order of driveability, that is


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We have to distingiush between:
>
> - Spool/Welded Diff
> - Automatic Locker (not talking about slips here)
> - Manual Locker
>
> Listed in the order driveability .
>
> Matt
>


 


Mike Romain wrote:

>
> No, very few lockers are manual. Most are just on so unless you can
> unlock your front hubs, you don't want one in front.

Yeah, sure. In that case it is possible.
Was only thinking about air lockers.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
 
I belive that the best option for your rig would be to get a locker
that works as a limited slip while not locked.Your front end will last
longer and you have the option of steering if need be and not blowing
your front suspention on one smooth scoop.I have know people who have
either welded or locked the front ends and due to lack of steering they
hit trees rocks and other objects that they could steer away from and
then break steering components.
mc

 
in article [email protected], asdf at
[email protected]lid wrote on 2/15/05 7:39 AM:

> Time to upgrade the front diff. Any stories? What experience
> have people had with a full locker in the front differential?
>
> -- Vic

I had the guy put a True-Trak gear-driven limited slip in my front diff when
he regeared my TJ (Wrangler)... I never even notice it other than a lot more
grab up front when I'm wheeling. OTOH, my Jeep SUCKED on ice up at elk camp
last year but I think that was the MT/R's as much as anything.

-jeff

 

Wow! Great input. I have to start asking more questions here.

The truck is a 1971 Chevy K20, manual 4-speed, manual hubs.

I drive to Tahoe a lot so snow/ice is a big concern. I have
heard bad stories about lockers on slippery streets. So the
options seem to be either limited slip on both or something like
OX or Truetrac Electrac. Eaton alos now has an electric locker.
Those lockers are both around a $1,000 though. I was leaning
towards limited slip, but wanted a more aggressive for off road.

what if I put limited slip in back, put a Detroit locker in front
where I can unlock the hubs?

Another thought, if my transfer case is manual, I could even have
the Detroit up front with the hubs locked if I was in 2-hi.

-- Vic



 
asdf wrote:
>
> Wow! Great input. I have to start asking more questions here.
>
> The truck is a 1971 Chevy K20, manual 4-speed, manual hubs.
>
> I drive to Tahoe a lot so snow/ice is a big concern. I have
> heard bad stories about lockers on slippery streets. So the
> options seem to be either limited slip on both or something like
> OX or Truetrac Electrac. Eaton alos now has an electric locker.
> Those lockers are both around a $1,000 though. I was leaning
> towards limited slip, but wanted a more aggressive for off road.
>
> what if I put limited slip in back, put a Detroit locker in front
> where I can unlock the hubs?
>
> Another thought, if my transfer case is manual, I could even have
> the Detroit up front with the hubs locked if I was in 2-hi.
>
> -- Vic

You have to have slip between the two front wheels if you want to turn a
corner because the outside wheel travels a 'lot' farther then the inside
of the corner wheel.

The limited slip in the back if you know how to use it on ice (they can
be badly behaved if you have a heavy foot or a light rear end) or an
open diff on back and a manual locker up front would be my choice.

I too like to drive in 2 wheel drive with my front hubs locked in bad
weather on my CJ7 so I can just shift on the fly into 4x4. If I was
dealing with my Cherokee, it has a vacuum lock for the front axles so a
locker would be ok there up front because the axle unconnects
automatically when in 2 wheel drive.

I have an 86 CJ7 with open diffs front and back and for some reason I am
the one everyone always 'tries' to follow up and across stuff on summer
and winter snow runs. I have tons of good photos of folks with big fat
tires and fancy lockers trying and trying and trying to get up to or
over to where I am taking the photos from....

Oh I also can have 4 rooster tails flying out on snow or mud when taking
off from a stop by using my brakes to load up the open diffs for a
slippery start. (usually only 3 rooster tails though, my front is hard
to lock)

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
 
i agree that that a front locker really dependes on the application.....
in the gooey stuff it rocks, but on the tight trails it bites.
My particular setup is very versatile in that i am running a NP205 transfer
into
a full spool with manual locking hubs.
I can unlock 1 side independent of the other choosing from 2,3 or 4wd.....
pretty slick setup.

--
Mad-Dog
'79 Chevy K-10
Slightly modified
http://mad-dog16.tripod.com/
--
"Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Erik-Jan Geniets wrote:
>>
>> Chuck Bremer wrote:
>> >
>> > you could have the best of both worlds with a selectable locker such as
>> > an
>> > ARB or OX locker (fully locked when you need them, open when you don't)
>>
>> I suppose all lockers have this option.
>> Otherwise the car will be impossible to drive/steer on more solid
>> ground.
>> And on tarmac the car will fall apart.....
>> Kind regards,
>> Erik-Jan.
>
> No, very few lockers are manual. Most are just on so unless you can
> unlock your front hubs, you don't want one in front.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's


 
asdf <[email protected]> writes in article <[email protected]> dated 16 Feb 2005 14:24:55 GMT:
>
>Wow! Great input. I have to start asking more questions here.
>
>The truck is a 1971 Chevy K20, manual 4-speed, manual hubs.
>
>I drive to Tahoe a lot so snow/ice is a big concern. I have
>heard bad stories about lockers on slippery streets. So the
>options seem to be either limited slip on both or something like
>OX or Truetrac Electrac. Eaton alos now has an electric locker.
>Those lockers are both around a $1,000 though. I was leaning
>towards limited slip, but wanted a more aggressive for off road.

So far everybody seems pretty down on limited slip, I'm not sure they
understand it the same way I do... which means I could be wrong but here
goes.

Limited slip means that if one wheel is moving, so is the other. But they
don't necessarily have to be rotating at the same speed. So for straight
line travel you can spin them both (or, in a 4x4, all 4 wheels). This is
definitely "what you want", the only reason not to get it is money.

>what if I put limited slip in back, put a Detroit locker in front
>where I can unlock the hubs?
>
>Another thought, if my transfer case is manual, I could even have
>the Detroit up front with the hubs locked if I was in 2-hi.

Not sure about this but I think that would lock the 2 front wheels to the
same RPM, making turning difficult/damaging, even though they weren't being
powered by the engine.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
 


Spud Demon wrote:

> Not sure about this but I think that would lock the 2 front wheels to the
> same RPM, making turning difficult/damaging, even though they weren't being
> powered by the engine.

In snow/ice circumstances it will even damage the whole car.
Whatever you do.... it will follow a straight line (theorethicaly).
Anyway, it will go wherever it wants to go and you can't do anything
about it.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
 
Erik-Jan Geniets wrote:
>
> Spud Demon wrote:
>
> > Not sure about this but I think that would lock the 2 front wheels to the
> > same RPM, making turning difficult/damaging, even though they weren't being
> > powered by the engine.
>
> In snow/ice circumstances it will even damage the whole car.
> Whatever you do.... it will follow a straight line (theorethicaly).
> Anyway, it will go wherever it wants to go and you can't do anything
> about it.
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

I sure will, even a part time 4x4 system can cause that on a turn
because the rear and front axle are locked together so one front tire
has to scuff on a turn. If there is heavy snow/slush down or if you
have wide tires, this scuff can get you up on top so you just go
straight.

When I am in that kind of snow, I drop to 2 WD as I take the corner and
go back to 4x4 once straight again.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
 
So, front end will either be a limited slip, or one of those
manual lockers I can turn on and off from inside the cab.
I'll put a regular locker in the rear.

--
Vic




 


asdf wrote:
>
> So, front end will either be a limited slip, or one of those
> manual lockers I can turn on and off from inside the cab.
> I'll put a regular locker in the rear.
>
I would say airlocker in front. Lasts longer then a LSD. And on snow/ice
it is completely open (unlocked) as well as on road so consuming less
energy.
Why not one in the rear too? Seems the best set-up to me.

On a part-time 4WD, as mine, an air locker in the rear would be an
advantage.
Even in 2 WD mode sometimes. I do not do any rockcrawling so an open
diff in front is good enough for me.

Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.

http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper
 
One thing for certain that this thread has proven - there are different
needs for different situations. I believe this is why whenever you see some
sort of 4wd challenge, the same rig never wins all the obstacles. If I had
the ability to build a dream machine, I'd want the ability to manually (on
demand) lock front/rear/and even center transfer (IE UNIMOG) when I needed
it. I'd also like a rear drive disconnect and tractor brakes. I would prefer
a cable system as I've seen so many people stranded with air-line issues on
the ARBs (read Ultimate Adventure). Not sure about the electrics but I just
like the simplicity of a cable. I know a cable can break but usually you can
correct that on the trail if needed.

Locked Front and Rear is great for slow rock crawling. You are moving slow
and usually have 1 or more tires off the ground.
I'd stick with open front and rear for snow and ice on tarmac with the
ability to lock if needed. Locked on ice will have you going sideways
quicker than anything. I currently have opened front / locker in rear. On
the slick stuff, I ride in 2wd because I can still use my dirt track
training to steer. 4wd even with open front has me going straight sometimes
when I don't want to.
It's amazing how far you can get with open diffs but having the ability to
lock when needed is probably the best.
As for front end, I have friends with ARBs in front. They only lock the
front when tires are in straight line. Unlock when turning as this has saved
them front end damage allowing for more wheeling, less fixing.

It's all about what you do with your rig. I feel flexibility is the name of
the game but flexibility comes with a price. My $.02.


"Erik-Jan Geniets" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> asdf wrote:
> >
> > So, front end will either be a limited slip, or one of those
> > manual lockers I can turn on and off from inside the cab.
> > I'll put a regular locker in the rear.
> >
> I would say airlocker in front. Lasts longer then a LSD. And on snow/ice
> it is completely open (unlocked) as well as on road so consuming less
> energy.
> Why not one in the rear too? Seems the best set-up to me.
>
> On a part-time 4WD, as mine, an air locker in the rear would be an
> advantage.
> Even in 2 WD mode sometimes. I do not do any rockcrawling so an open
> diff in front is good enough for me.
>
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
>
> http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper


 
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