Front axle noise

mundungus · May 18, 2011

There's something that's been bugging me for a while.

Whenever I take my foot off the throttle, or press the clutch for a gear change, there's a strange squeal noise that occurs.

Its difficult to explain. Its not like a high pitched constant squeal, but more of a series of low pitch squeaks. It doesn't have the sound of metal on metal, but more kinda like the sound of rubber squeaking on a smooth surface.

It sounds like its coming from the front axle or prop. Maybe even the transfer box at a push.

Its fine when I'm going along. I.e. when the engine is pushing the wheels. But occurs when the power is taken away and the vehicle is in overdrive. Oh and there's always a clunk when the vehicle reaches overdrive.

Has anyone had this before? Any suggestions of what it might be?

Andy Land · May 18, 2011

mundungus said:
There's something that's been bugging me for a while.

Whenever I take my foot off the throttle, or press the clutch for a gear change, there's a strange squeal noise that occurs.

Its difficult to explain. Its not like a high pitched constant squeal, but more of a series of low pitch squeaks. It doesn't have the sound of metal on metal, but more kinda like the sound of rubber squeaking on a smooth surface.

It sounds like its coming from the front axle or prop. Maybe even the transfer box at a push.

Its fine when I'm going along. I.e. when the engine is pushing the wheels. But occurs when the power is taken away and the vehicle is in overdrive. Oh and there's always a clunk when the vehicle reaches overdrive.

Has anyone had this before? Any suggestions of what it might be?

I've got the same sort of thing on overrun on my 90 but it's more of a high pitched grating whine. I've asked around and from what I'm told I will be checking front diff and input/output bearings in transfer box. As far as the clunking goes it could be A-frame ball joint, Propshafts / UJ's, Halfshaft or like mine it is caused by the handbrake drum. I can adjust it and the clunking stops and then it returns when it loosens up again. I need to strip it down when I have time. Try tightening yours to at least rule it out.

Woody3 · May 18, 2011

I'd hazard a guess that it's the Universal Joints on ya front propshaft. I had the exact same symptoms on mine.

Just have a crawl underneath...give the propshaft a pull/push...if it moves a little in any direction, there's ya problem!

CwazyWabbit · May 18, 2011

The clunk can also be the gearbox output shaft as well, mine had a massive clunk which turned out to be half shafts, drive members and the gear box output shaft, all added up to a noise that would scare the crap out of you.

Can't help you with the squeak though....

mundungus · May 19, 2011

Ok, so the UJ is definitely the cause of the clunk.

It looks like the roller bearings part has disintegrated leaving the prop to rock side to side. It has even started to eat through two of the nuts and bolts that hold it on

No idea how the MOT guy missed that. It couldn't have been much different two months ago.

Do you think that could be the cause of the squealing noise though?

The other three UJs seem ok. but there is a little bit of play on this propshalf. I.e. I can rotate it by a couple of degrees even though the front wheels arent moving. Is that normal?

pete23 · May 19, 2011

its been a very long time since thats seen any grease!

Woody3 · May 19, 2011

Haha, definitely not seen any grease for a gd while!

The squeal is very likely to be coming from the UJ. I had the exact same squeal, the prop was moving so much that it also took half the nuts out (just like yours).

I think a new UJ is £6.50 from Paddocks. Make sure you get the "Harder Spicer" ones. Grease the others up as well! Saying that though, if they've not been greased before, they are probably gonna be on their last legs as well. If I was you, I'd do both of them on the front prop shaft while it's off the vehicle. Then leave the rear propshaft for a later date.

Buster has done a very gd "How to", which I followed. Just make sure you have a very big hammer, a vice and an old socket!

mundungus · May 19, 2011

I think that goes for everything else on the vehicle to. I've not had it long and not done many miles in it myself. But I'm sure the previous two owners have never removed a single bolt on the whole thing.

Everything I've done so far has been a major bitch of a job. As nothing is greased and all the bold heads are rusted to the point of barely a hexagon.

CwazyWabbit · May 19, 2011

Sounds like I bought my 110 off the same guy as you Mundungus. Enjoy

BTW is your transfer box front output seal knackered? The box looks a bit wet.

mundungus · May 19, 2011

Woody3 said:
Haha, definitely not seen any grease for a gd while!

The squeal is very likely to be coming from the UJ. I had the exact same squeal, the prop was moving so much that it also took half the nuts out (just like yours).

I think a new UJ is £6.50 from Paddocks. Make sure you get the "Harder Spicer" ones. Grease the others up as well! Saying that though, if they've not been greased before, they are probably gonna be on their last legs as well. If I was you, I'd do both of them on the front prop shaft while it's off the vehicle. Then leave the rear propshaft for a later date.

Buster has done a very gd "How to", which I followed. Just make sure you have a very big hammer, a vice and an old socket!

Think I might take a drive over to Gratech after work tomorrow if they have them in stock. I can have a go at it on Saturday then. Think I might just get the four and do them all.

mundungus · May 19, 2011

CwazyWabbit said:
Sounds like I bought my 110 off the same guy as you Mundungus. Enjoy

BTW is your transfer box front output seal knackered? The box looks a bit wet.

Feck, no idea.

Any idea what the part number for one of those is? And is that a hard job?

jamesmartin · May 19, 2011

frc7043

CwazyWabbit · May 19, 2011

Check that is definitely leaking from that seal first (assuming there is oil still in the transfer box), it does look like it though from your pic though.

Once you have your front prop removed to replace the UJ's there is only one nut left to remove, albeit a big one.
Once that's off just remove the output flange and you'll see the seal that needs replacing.
When you knock the new seal in make sure you put it in far enough otherwise the output flange will shred it pretty quickly and you'll be swapping it again! .... don't ask me how I know this :s

CwazyWabbit · May 19, 2011

Looks like buster has done a photo guide to replacing that seal and the bearing behind it.
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f41/transfer-box-front-output-bearing-oil-seal-renewal-81771.html
When I did my seal the other day I didn't drain the oil, just pointed it up hill and put something underneath to catch the drips. It doesn't take very long to do, especially as you'll have the prop off anyway.

mundungus · May 19, 2011

I was just looking through busters guides. He made a special tool to for taking that nut off, so might give that a bit more thought.

Think I might get the seal anyway. They seem to be really cheap.

And happy to drain the oil. I was planning a complete oil change for all the diffs, engine and gearboxes anyway. Have already bought the oil, just haven't gotten round to it yet.

Woody, how did you get those bolts out once they were ground down like that. They seem so tight against the prop that cutting them out would be difficult. (Assuming I cant get a spanner or socket on them).

Also, do they sell replacement nuts and bolts for props? is there a part number I can look for?

jamesmartin · May 19, 2011

put it in difflock with hand brake on tight in 4th gear

CwazyWabbit · May 20, 2011

A special tool is simple enough to make, mine is just a scrap of angle iron with two holes drilled in it and a bit ground out so you can get your socket in, not as fancy as busters but works great. The same tool will work on the front and back diff as well, if you have a Salisbury rear axle don't remove the output flange without reading up first or you will mess up the preload on the bearing.

The bolts for the props are supposed to go in from the back of the output flanges so really need the flanges removed to change them (you can just put the bolts in from the other side though.

Prop bolts are special apparently as they need to be very strong to handle the torque.

The bolts for the prop are 509045 and nuts are NZ606041L (some shops do sets of them)

The ones for mounting the prop on the rear output of the transfer box are slightly longer due to the transmission brake drum so are 90512701 instead

CwazyWabbit · May 20, 2011

BTW you can get a special prop shaft socket as it is too tight to get a normal one on, however with the state of your UJ you may actually be able to get a normal socket on.

Also the nuts are not metric they are actually 9/16th imperial.

mundungus · May 20, 2011

CwazyWabbit said:
BTW you can get a special prop shaft socket as it is too tight to get a normal one on, however with the state of your UJ you may actually be able to get a normal socket on.

Also the nuts are not metric they are actually 9/16th imperial.

I could kinda get a socket on the edge of one of them, but the shape of the plate thing they sit in stops it going on properly. Its like I'd need a thin walled socket.

Just hope I can turn them. Those sheared ones look like they'll be troublesome. And it doesn't look like I'll be able to get a cutting disc in there easily.

Can anyone answer my question about the play in the front diff? Should I be able to move it a couple of degrees even if the front wheels dont move?

I mean, the cogs in there cant be completely interlocked. But I dont know how interlocked it should be.

jamesmartin · May 20, 2011

there aint no gogs in there you find them in windmills ,yes there is back lash between crown wheel and pinion,and within the differential gears,half shafts,drive flanges,what your looking for is not rotational free play but end float,up/down,side to side play ,which shows pinion brg loose or worn ,rotating prop till access to prop bolts is better is how its done ,or even easier with one end off as movement is more ,use 2 x spanner if you havent the right socket if they round the edges you can with sharp chisel split nut across the flat

Front axle noise

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