Freelander 2 wobble/judder

Hi chaps! Back again with more issues :-(

So I’ve now owned the Freelander 2 for 18 months, new PTU, Haldex striped and serviced, two new front driveshafts, blower motor, bonnet catch. Loads of work done. Oils changed etc...

I’m currently on my second lot of driveshafts as the Britpart shafts I bought both failed within months!

More recently I’ve noticed issues with the passenger side shaft (britpart) and a wobble under load around 50mph.

I’ve now changed the shaft, had the tracking checked, all the wheels re-balanced (4x Bridgestone duelers only 6 months old) the car is now perfectly straight and balanced, two new driveshafts and yet the wobble or judder remains?

So if I’m driving on a flat road, as I slowly accelerate to 50mph the car will start to shake side to side like a wet dog between 45-65ish. The harder the acceleration the more violent the wobble. If for eg I’m driving up a longer inclined road, wobble will start top 30/40mph and not really stop until I hit flat road or ease off the accelerator. At no point does the steering wheel wobble, it just the car body itself.

I’d like to sell the car because I need a newer van for work, I’m concerned I’m not going to get top money for it as it stands so I need to resolve the issue asap! But at the same time I don’t want to really spend stupid amounts, I’d rather sell with the problem know to the buyer and just haggle the price. I simply don’t have the time to waste at the moment!

Any ideas on if this is a simple fix or any thing I can do to rule things out? If I remove the prop shaft for example to rule out anything associated with the rear diff? Or the prop bearings or the prop itself? If it was front suspension how could I check this? Would the steering wheel not be judder at the same time with anything associated to the wheels or steering? I don’t think it’s a missfire as the engine sounds fine.

I should mention the car is an auto is that makes any difference?

Thanks chaps! Any helps appreciated

Steve

Hi Steve.
Have you checked the front arms for wear in the rubber, also check the wheels after a drive feel if one is hotter than the other, it may be binding caliper, which i know usually shows by judder in the steering wheel but not always, are front strut bolts tight? springs ok.

Arctic2 said:

Hi Steve.
Have you checked the front arms for wear in the rubber, also check the wheels after a drive feel if one is hotter than the other, it may be binding caliper, which i know usually shows by judder in the steering wheel but not always, are front strut bolts tight? springs ok.

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Checked for callipers binding today while out on a long journey, all 4 wheel cold to the touch so that rules that out! Tomorrow I should find some time to get under the car and check the suspension components.

Broken spring and/or dodgy shocks?

Front issues on most cars usually shake the steering wheel. If it's the whole car, then I would suspect the rear.

pwood999 said:

Front issues on most cars usually shake the steering wheel. If it's the whole car, then I would suspect the rear.

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My thoughts too! Or maybe engine mounts?

Danger Steve said:

Hi chaps! Back again with more issues :-(

So I’ve now owned the Freelander 2 for 18 months, new PTU, Haldex striped and serviced, two new front driveshafts, blower motor, bonnet catch. Loads of work done. Oils changed etc...

I’m currently on my second lot of driveshafts as the Britpart shafts I bought both failed within months!

More recently I’ve noticed issues with the passenger side shaft (britpart) and a wobble under load around 50mph.

I’ve now changed the shaft, had the tracking checked, all the wheels re-balanced (4x Bridgestone duelers only 6 months old) the car is now perfectly straight and balanced, two new driveshafts and yet the wobble or judder remains?

So if I’m driving on a flat road, as I slowly accelerate to 50mph the car will start to shake side to side like a wet dog between 45-65ish. The harder the acceleration the more violent the wobble. If for eg I’m driving up a longer inclined road, wobble will start top 30/40mph and not really stop until I hit flat road or ease off the accelerator. At no point does the steering wheel wobble, it just the car body itself.

I’d like to sell the car because I need a newer van for work, I’m concerned I’m not going to get top money for it as it stands so I need to resolve the issue asap! But at the same time I don’t want to really spend stupid amounts, I’d rather sell with the problem know to the buyer and just haggle the price. I simply don’t have the time to waste at the moment!

Any ideas on if this is a simple fix or any thing I can do to rule things out? If I remove the prop shaft for example to rule out anything associated with the rear diff? Or the prop bearings or the prop itself? If it was front suspension how could I check this? Would the steering wheel not be judder at the same time with anything associated to the wheels or steering? I don’t think it’s a missfire as the engine sounds fine.

I should mention the car is an auto is that makes any difference?

Thanks chaps! Any helps appreciated

Steve

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Hi have you got a good spare tire that matches? might be good to change one wheel at a time and see if wheel /tire problem cheap to rule out if you have another tire that matches, my freelander 1 used to do the same and was a bad tire

Ian M in France said:

Hi have you got a good spare tire that matches? might be good to change one wheel at a time and see if wheel /tire problem cheap to rule out if you have another tire that matches, my freelander 1 used to do the same and was a bad tire

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Just last week I had all 4 wheels balanced and the tracking done, would this not show up at that stage if it was a bad tyre?

When you say you had the same issue, vibration but not coming from the steering wheel? The bad tyre you had, was it visibly bad? Or you only realised once you swapped it out?

Out of interest, was it a rear tyre?

Ok so I’ve been under the car for a while this afternoon, checking suspension parts, prop bearings, rear driveshafts and I can’t see anything obvious.. I swapped the rear wheels with the spare as suggested but made no difference.

I’m now wondering if maybe it’s an issues with the Torque converter? When I replaced the PTU I replaced all the fluids so I pretty confident it’s not the fluid? I could try some shudder fix next and see if that rids the issue.

I’ve been watching a couple of American videos on the symptoms of torque converter shudder and it seems like it only comes in at a certain speed for a few seconds then stops? In my case it continues under load until about 60+ mph before it eases off and stops.

Bent or out of balance drive shaft / propshaft ? Maybe something else in the suspension that would not impact tracking alignment when stationary ?

Really difficult to diagnose TC shudder. I thought I'd cracked it on my FL1. I disconnected the TC clutch lock feed from the Transmission ECU. It solved my shudder. Changed the TC and reconnected and same problem.

What I was solving was the disconnection of a continuous drive train. IRD bearing turned out to be the problem.

You can hear the TC lock in. Does it vibrate when not locked ? I.e when engine revs and road speed are not locked together.
That might give you a clue.

andyfreelandy said:

Really difficult to diagnose TC shudder. I thought I'd cracked it on my FL1. I disconnected the TC clutch lock feed from the Transmission ECU. It solved my shudder. Changed the TC and reconnected and same problem.

What I was solving was the disconnection of a continuous drive train. IRD bearing turned out to be the problem.

You can hear the TC lock in. Does it vibrate when not locked ? I.e when engine revs and road speed are not locked together.
That might give you a clue.

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I replaced the PTU the back end of last year for an ‘up-rated’ one, it was making a droning noise and the bearing had gone. Since replacing the PTU the droning has obviously stopped. At the same time I removed, stripped and cleaned the Haldex and replaced the oil. The one item I haven’t really done anything with is the prop shaft. I checked the two bearings today by grabbing and shaking side to side, and there is a little movement but nothing excessive? No clunking. If I twist the prop there is a slight clunk from the Haldex or rear diff? I’m assuming that is just a bit of slack/wear? I don’t seem to suffer any of the usual Haldex issues of juddering from the rear as you drive out from a junction.

Not sure what you mean by engine revs and road speed not locked together?

pwood999 said:

Bent or out of balance drive shaft / propshaft ? Maybe something else in the suspension that would not impact tracking alignment when stationary ?

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I’m not sure what else to check.? How would I check for out of balance prop shaft?

The judder kinda feels like it’s coming from under the car but maybe more towards the front, in the footwell or the lower dash between the driver and passenger seat.. If I was driving up a slight incline for example, when I get to 30/40mph the juddering starts, if I slowly accelerate the judder gets more violent, if I slow down it eases of. If I then drive downhill for example there is no judder.

Danger Steve said:

Not sure what you mean by engine revs and road speed not locked together?

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When the TC locks the engine is locked to the transmission and so where as the revs of the engine are fairly fluid and engine can be revved without affecting road speed much. When the TC 'locks' the engine and transmission are more joined together and if you can detect this point and see whether the vibration is only when TC locked that may help.

Can you take the propshaft off a FL2 and drive it - don't know the answer but that would eliminate the prop and rear end.

andyfreelandy said:

When the TC locks the engine is locked to the transmission and so where as the revs of the engine are fairly fluid and engine can be revved without affecting road speed much. When the TC 'locks' the engine and transmission are more joined together and if you can detect this point and see whether the vibration is only when TC locked that may help.

Can you take the propshaft off a FL2 and drive it - don't know the answer but that would eliminate the prop and rear end.

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So like a slipping clutch feeling on a manual car? You go to accelerate, the engine revs but the speed doesn’t increase at the same rate? No it’s not doing that.

As mentioned, you can be cruising down a flat road or on the motorway doing 30mph, slowly accelerate upto 40, then accelerate slowly upto 50 and between 40&50 you feel the judder starts to increase and become more noticeable through the seat or if I have my knee against the dash I can feel the vibration getting stronger and stronger as the speed slowly builds, 50 seems to be the sweet spot driving through motorway road works! If I go to accelerate upto 60 quite quickly the judder really kicks in, then as zinger past 60 (still accelerating) it starts to calm down and eventually seems to stop. Very similar to an out of balance wheel! But the steering doesn’t really judder at all. And obviously I’ve just had 4 new Bridgestone Duelers, and the balance and tracking all checked.

I’m pretty sure the car can drive in 2wd without the prop, bit of a mission just to rule the rear out?

Danger Steve said:

Just last week I had all 4 wheels balanced and the tracking done, would this not show up at that stage if it was a bad tyre?

When you say you had the same issue, vibration but not coming from the steering wheel? The bad tyre you had, was it visibly bad? Or you only realised once you swapped it out?

Out of interest, was it a rear tyre?

Click to expand...

I had had a flat tyre, put the spare on, same make of tyre and about same leave of tread but do not know how long it had not been used, did not see the problem straight away as I do not drive it that often, did not relate the problem to the tyre straight away but put repaired tyre back on and okay, got two new tyres one on the spare and fitted them to back and all okay.

Danger Steve said:

I’m pretty sure the car can drive in 2wd without the prop, bit of a mission just to rule the rear out?

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@Nodge68 mentioned he was running his 2wd for some reason. Can't remember what though.

WhiskyLassie said:

@Nodge68 mentioned he was running his 2wd for some reason. Can't remember what though.

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Issue with his Haldex I think..

Ok, I’ve been out for a drive in the car today.

It’s seems like the judder starts at a much lower speed and just increases intensity as the car speeds up, or if the car has to struggle like going up hill. Very slight wheel vibration, but mostly the seat and car body shaking.

I’m wondering if it could still be the front driver side driveshaft? It’s now on its 2nd new shaft in the space of 12 months. First was bought from Britpart, the second from Rimmer Bros, neither was a genuine part. Went for the £130 option.

After I replaced the very first one the clunking came back but from what I remember there was no judder. This judder only seems to coincide with the second driveshaft. Could be coincidence!!??

Also the clunking is starting to come back now weirdly after I replaced the passenger side shaft for the 2nd time.. The clunking sounds like it’s from the drivers side now though.

Or is this all related to a Haldex or gearbox issue? And the driveshafts are fine? Maybe the clunking and juddering is something else? Or two separate issues?

Tearing my hair out now! I’ve ordered some Dr Tranny shudder fix which I should have tomorrow, if only to rule stuff out.