FL2 2010 TD4 Auto current draw when standing? (failure to crank)

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dfossil

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a month or so ago my FL2 failed to start one morning - one wurp then nothing - next try not even a wurp. put it on charge and after a while was fine - started normally - the Bosch battery was only 3 yeasold but as it is normally my wife in this car I just changed it - (I still have it as a spare and it's holding charge like a goodun) Alternator voltages are good - no red lights and the heated seats still work so the higher charge rate function when required is still operating properly. I had some instances of the alarm going off and the car reporting bonnet open but the ubiquitous paperclip solved that. Hawkeye reports no DTCs. - but it happened again last night.
Again after a few hours on a charger it behaved it's self again starting fine.
My wife does a lot of short trips - under two miles each time - but even so ????

The only thing I have been able to identify is - if I disconnect the battery, then set my my meter for the 10a range and measure beween positive terminal and positive lead I get circa 4 amps rapidly decaying to 0.9amps - but it seems to stick there - that seems high to me.
Can't see any lights staying on or anything like that.
What discharge current should I be seeing when the car is standing?
- and what could cause a higher drain than normal on the battery?
 
Have you looked at the starter motor to see if the contacts are good also the plunger, and have you connected up the extra earth to the bolt on the starter?
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Even short journeys should not harm or lower a new battery.
 
Well no - I have not stripped the starter or fitted extra earths - but after a short charge the starter whips it into life and sounds perfectly healthy - It's a month between the first time and again now - it sounds more like the common symptom of a poor battery where the ECU thinks it will be a dirty start emisionwise and inhibits the action - come apon that in a couple or more vehicles - but we know the battery is top notch and the alternator is good - which is why I suspect a current drain - possibly small or maybe intermittant. So right now I am watching the voltage at the battery as the vehicle sits in the garage - checking a start then watching thevoltages and waiting - to see if it drops appreciably for no reason and if so is that when it fails to start again and at what voltage.

Meanwhile still asking if anyone here has experience of a current drain. In "the other place" there is much muttering about steering wheel lock - but I have yet to read a convincing argument - they seem to discuss how the main agents performed changing lots of parts rather than fixing stuff like us .

-but there are some knowledgable guys on there too ( Our Nodge for one )
 
I've used a multimeter on the fuse boxes of cars in the past where I've suspected a current drain. Check each fuse till you find 1 drawing a current and see what is powered by that fuse.
 
Don't know the drain figure for a FL2, but a FL1 TD4 on locked standby drains about 20mA.

It is important not to measure other residual items that are on, like interior lamps which go out etc, probably what you saw. When you disconnect the battery to insert your ammeter you, of course, kick all these things off again.

I always loosen the ground lead but leave it on. Lock the car and let it all stabilise then connect the meter to the battery post and the lead (without disconnecting them), when they are making good contact I whip the terminal off so as not to interrupt the current flow.

I would have though 0.9 Amps is extremely high, but maybe sommat switches back on after a disconnect.
Try the above and report measurement.
 
Several things spring to mind on this issue.

Firstly short trips are death to healthy battery, reducing its capacity very quickly. So keep a battery condition tip top with regular charging from a decent battery charger.

Secondly, when you tested the current drain, what was the status of the vehicle (doors open, doors shut, locked, super locked, etc).
It takes some time for the various ECMs to shut down, the shut down times are based on the status of the vehicle.
I can't remember the exact times (I'll try to find the table), but from memory it takes about 45 minutes for the CJB to issue the shutdown data packet, this is after the last door is closed, but not locked.
Locking the vehicle on standard lock reduces the shutdown time to 30 minutes IIRC, and super locking drops it to 10 minutes.
The systems take a long time to fully shut down, as the battery voltage needs to stabilise, to prevent corruption on shutdown.

Thirdly, the starter contactors could well be on the way out, which causes higher resistance to the electrical current, which if already reduced from a weak battery, could well prevent it cranking over (the starter is rated at 2,000 Watts), until the battery condition is improved by charging.

Forthy, fit the extra battery to starter mounting bolt cable, which definitely does improve cranking speed.
 
[QUOTE="
I would have though 0.9 Amps is extremely high, but maybe sommat switches back on after a disconnect.
Try the above and report measurement.[/QUOTE]

Yeah - I was too soon - needed to wait a fare bit longer - I will have another go and follow your procedure
 
Nodge68 said:
Several things spring to mind on this issue.

Firstly short trips are death to healthy battery, reducing its capacity very quickly. So keep a battery condition tip top with regular charging from a decent battery charger.

Secondly, when you tested the current drain, what was the status of the vehicle (doors open, doors shut, locked, super locked, etc).
It takes some time for the various ECMs to shut down, the shut down times are based on the status of the vehicle.
I can't remember the exact times (I'll try to find the table), but from memory it takes about 45 minutes for the CJB to issue the shutdown data packet, this is after the last door is closed, but not locked.
Locking the vehicle on standard lock reduces the shutdown time to 30 minutes IIRC, and super locking drops it to 10 minutes.
The systems take a long time to fully shut down, as the battery voltage needs to stabilise, to prevent corruption on shutdown.

Thirdly, the starter contactors could well be on the way out, which causes higher resistance to the electrical current, which if already reduced from a weak battery, could well prevent it cranking over (the starter is rated at 2,000 Watts), until the battery condition is improved by charging.

Forthy, fit the extra battery to starter mounting bolt cable, which definitely does improve cranking speed.
Click to expand...

Yeah - all good stuff to work through

Right now I can't reproduce the fault - still just observing battery voltage behavior sitting in the garage with several short startups over an extended period
 
Kevm said:
Buy a clip on DC voltmeter ideal for finding parasitic drains etc...example in link below....others makes models exist.

https://www.uni-trend.com/meters/ht...s/digitalclampmeters/UT210_Series/UT210E.html

This particular one will measure accurately down to a few milliamps DC and up to 20A DC, other models will measure higher.
Also does the usual other multimeter stuff.
Click to expand...

Blimey - I forgot I had a clip on meter - it's a Tacklife CM01A - I'll add it to the observation process
 
-and the TAC says current draw this morning after sitting all night is 0.08A - so no permanent drain fault observed there - that's good
 
actually it is very handy having the bonnet open switch paperclipped 'cos it allows me to observe current drain in all configurations of lockiing etc with the bonnet open.
Thst all seems fine.
On reflection when I have been working on the car in the past and have left ignition on in a comparitively short spacee of time I got exactly the same refusal to engage the starter till I refreshed the battery - and having read through a 10 page thread on this event in the Freelander2 site where the same occasional event on many cars around the same age - omitting the ones where phones are left in bluetooth etc so there was a reason - and seeing most of those guys having the dealers change parts to no avail and or simply not finding a fault.
So - before I do any spannerwork I am just going to carry on and see- one thing at a time to learn what helps -get her to check radios are off before killing the ignition, double locking to minimise the current drain after locking up etc.
As she is never far from home when she drives alone it's no great hardship if I have to pop out with my spare battery or just jump her - and I will check battery condition periodically.
Will defo do earth strap etc soon.
 
dfossil said:
On reflection when I have been working on the car in the past and have left ignition on in a comparitively short spacee of time I got exactly the same refusal to engage the starter till I refreshed the battery -
Click to expand...

The Freelander 2, and other modern LRs are absolute power hogs, so leaving the ignition on for any length of time, normally results in a discharged battery. I've done it myself, flattening the battery enough to prevent it starting, simply by running a few minutes of diagnostic tests.
 
OK - I had one more failure to crank (three months on)- possibly 'cos 'er indoors had been using aircon on her habitual short trips - although maybe the enhanced charge rate for heavy loads - heated seats - should have taken control of this???
This time after refreshing the battery it still didn't crank - eventually did after numerous attempts and much charging - so:-
Now fitted extra 170A Earth lead and replaced starter solenoid contacts (they were pitted but still plenty of materal left)
No problems so far
Can't find any relevant faults on SDD or Hawkeye
We shall see o_O
 
AC makes no difference to the battery, as it's driven by the engine directly.
The ECM knows exactly what electric dodads are on, and instructs the alternator to output sufficient power to cover the additional loads.
If you have a heated front screen, the alternator will be rated at 180 A, which is a lot of power.
 
Ah yes - missed that on aircon - it's mechnical. - and yes I have heated screen.
A while ago I had that alternator light signal that the smart charge rate wasn't funtioning and it disabled the heated seats - found the ubiquitous blue wire break under the fuel filter and fixed it - that's all still alright.
Nodge68 said:
If you have a heated front screen, the alternator will be rated at 180 A, which is a lot of power.
Click to expand...
Wow! 180A - tha's impressive!!!!
 
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