Expanding Land Rover Family - which one to get?

Dear Landyzone,

I got an '95 Disco Auto ES with over 200,000 on the clock and love it. But it does not have that much power and looking to expand the Land Rover family for the longer tarmac trips

Love the looks of the Range Rover L322 and they are getting very competitively priced. Do a fair no of miles in the car, so would go for a diesel, but what are the things to look out for on these cars? Can you go for a high mileage one or how do the engines hold up? I do not mind doing repairs on the car (know it is solid then) so will rather buy a "cheaper" one and do the repairs myself. Assume the Vogue edition is the best equipped. Would initially go for an earlier model 2002-04.

Any comments, suggestions or referral to links that address these points highly appreciated.

Thx as always - Ken

Budget for a new gearbox, especially with a diesel.

That is fine. I am ready for that Have a trip planned to Morocco in the new year and was hoping to take the car there. There is a Land Rover mechanic in Marrakech that has done excellent work on my Disco (and he does newer models as well) and the labour cost is about GBP 3 per hour there - hard to beat

But anything in particular to look out for that would be very expensive in parts?

Thx again

Other members on here will be able to give full details but general problem areas i'm aware of tend to be:

Gearbox - less so on petrol V8's
Electrical gremlins - ask SaintV8
Suspension components seem to have a short life.
Water ingress into the rear boot - taking out electronics situated there.
Parts are still expensive even if you can get cheap labour - i'm just biased on this as mine is a P38 with reasonable parts costs.
Diagnostic kit is a must with an L322.

Haha, seems like most Land Rovers

Do you know if there are any buying guides and PDF brochures laying around in the forum. Have tried a search but could not find anything.

Thx

martynv8 said:

Other members on here will be able to give full details but general problem areas i'm aware of tend to be:

Gearbox - less so on petrol V8's
Electrical gremlins - ask SaintV8
Suspension components seem to have a short life.
Water ingress into the rear boot - taking out electronics situated there.
Parts are still expensive even if you can get cheap labour - i'm just biased on this as mine is a P38 with reasonable parts costs.
Diagnostic kit is a must with an L322.

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Must say that your P38 looks absolutely stunning - have made me start to think if the L322 is the right one for me... How is yours for power? Diesel one?

Kmadsen68 said:

Must say that your P38 looks absolutely stunning - have made me start to think if the L322 is the right one for me... How is yours for power? Diesel one?

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Why, thankyou (blushing) lol.

It does get well looked after. Mine is a 4.6 thor so plenty of torque power (for me anyway). Nice & smooth. I'm not a fan of the 2.5 diesel. I had a diesel L322 for a while (borrowed company car) & there is still more power in the 4.6, comfier too.
Running on LPG gives similar cost per mile as a diesel especially on the long runs i do frequently.
Not without problems though. Might be looking at a new engine in the new year

Thank you for your reply. Interesting. Having owned my Disco for 2+ years, I feel as comfortable as you can ever get with a Land Rover to get my 2nd one. Want it to be a more comfortable ride than my Disco (although an ES version fully equipped) so think will go for an L322 in the end...

No worries,

Actually I did mean the P38 is comfier than the L322, also my old Disco 3 now i think about it.

Below is a brief list based on what I've learnt in the last few months after tonnes of research and a few lengthy chats with a specialist. (Cam-Tech)

A reoccurring and little known problem on the L322 that often gets missed or overlooked till it's too late is water contamination (condensation) in the rear diffs - irrespective of mileage, age or the type of life it's led, as it's still being discovered in recent models with low miles that have only ever been driven on the road.
More and more reports are coming through of people dropping their rear diff oil and being presented with a very glittery type sludge.
The repair bill is astronomical...
The cause of it has yet to be discovered.

Gearboxes should 'ideally' be serviced every 40k, so worth checking what sort service history that particular item has, if any at all...
The oil was dropped and double flushed on mine yesterday. All was well with what came out with no swarf on the magnets.

Transfer Case.
This is another reoccurring and little known problem. My Transfer Case (TDV8) holds 1.5L of oil.
When we drained it for changing a few weeks ago, 200ml came out.
Apparently, 1 in 3 are averaging this sort of problem, again, right down to the newer, low mileage examples.
On the subject of the transfer case - check it isn't leaking between the case itself and the gearbox, as mine had to be split and re-sealed the week I bought it, luckily not at my expense, as it's a lengthy job to split and re-seal the boxes.

Tail gate straps.
It was pointed out on mine yesterday that one needs replacing. They rot from underneath the rubber and seize solid. Very easy and cheap fix.

Rear shocks.
These are common for weeping and are also ruddy expensive if you stick to the genuine Bilston replacements.
Also check all suspension component bushes.

Brake pads.
The L322 eats them. Checks if they're low and factor into purchase price accordingly if they need replacing.

Tyres.
Check the full width of the tyre, as worn suspension bushes can cause extensive, premature wear on the outer edges.

Electrics.
Test everything. If it has a button - press it. Check it operates whatever it controls.

Fuel reading.
If it reads 1/3 of a tank, check it genuinely has 1/3 of a tank and isn't suffering with the corroded plug issue.
It's a 4-5hr job with a dealer/specialist if it needs rectifying.

I'm sure there are many other things to check for, but that's just off the top of my head.
Good luck with your search.

(Not as brief as I thought)

Add to the above, the interior trim quality is poor, the paint comes off the plastic seat surrounds, leather is poor, seats are hard. Lots of electronic problems water leaks front an rear, door release mechanism fails, EAS is complex, plastic valve block under car not good, take a look at the suspension thread horror story by rs2000 custom.

A Discovery 3 would be a better bet for what you want imo..

I went through a similar exercise just over a year ago, changing from my Classic LSE. Looked at several L322s around my budget of £6k, but not impressed, either by the quality of the cars on offer - lots of niggly and not so niggly problems and potential problems - or the driving experience itself. +1 on the trim problems mentioned by Datatek

Then there's the cost of the bits - double or more the P38 equivalents, looked through many of the threads on here (with the advice to have a 2 or 3 grand contingency fund) and the plaintive cries for help from new Mk3 owners. I appreciate that there's a perceived imbalance, many owners have no problems so don't generally post saying how wonderful their cars are.

Decided to look at P38s instead - tried a couple and bought the 3rd one - a really nice, well looked after '98 4.6 V8, 106k miles, for £2750. No regrets at all, & still have £3k contingency. I don't think there's £3-4K improvement in the driving experience with the Mk3's I tried, but to quite a large degree it depends on your budget, I think the later (post 2007 I think) JLR cars are generally better, but you're looking at around £10k.

Bought a nanocom diagnostic just in case, and so far have only had to replace the water pump, viscous fan (EAS delay relay supplied by PO) aircon condenser and heater O rings.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Alastair

Mark L said:

Transfer Case.
This is another reoccurring and little known problem. My Transfer Case (TDV8) holds 1.5L of oil.
When we drained it for changing a few weeks ago, 200ml came out.
Apparently, 1 in 3 are averaging this sort of problem, again, right down to the newer, low mileage examples.
On the subject of the transfer case - check it isn't leaking between the case itself and the gearbox, as mine had to be split and re-sealed the week I bought it, luckily not at my expense, as it's a lengthy job to split and re-seal the boxes.

Rear shocks.
These are common for weeping and are also ruddy expensive if you stick to the genuine Bilston replacements.

Fuel reading.
If it reads 1/3 of a tank, check it genuinely has 1/3 of a tank and isn't suffering with the corroded plug issue.
It's a 4-5hr job with a dealer/specialist if it is

Click to expand...

As I work on landrover I know the problems from 2007 onwards as we rarely see any older.

Transfer box's I've done hundreds of oil changes and have never seen just 200ml come out, normally seen 1.0 to 1.25l come out, they tend to leak from the front output shaft and to change the seal it's a box out and split to do it.

The rear shock yes do weap but it is very minimal normal only seen when car is at fully extended, I've never failed them on mot or service unless it is running down the shock.

And the fuel tank if you are referring to the connectors in the tanks, they don't corrode they get a high resistance in the plug which is what causes the fault, if it is what you mean I can and so can all the boys at work get it done in less than 1.5hrs.

All this is based 07/08 l322 onwards. Now I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm only saying what I see ever day.

If you choose a l322 and have a engine preference and yr I can list the faults that i know and have seen, but don't want to be on here all night

Matt a great post.

so, not wanting to highjack, so what do you find on a 2005 with bmw v8?
PM if you like...

The L322 is an awesome machine....but.....the early ones are beset with issues.

All the above is all sound advice, the Diesel will eat its gearbox at some point so budget around £2.5K for a replacement with a Sonnax valve block.

The electrical gremlins are profound with such a complex car, but what surprises me is that the same systems are found in 1996-on BMW's so why it wasn't all sorted out by the time the L322 was launched in 2002 astounds me! But it does mean that most faults are well documented on here, other Range Rover forums and also on Bimmer sites!

The TD6 is a very good power unit with only injector and turbo hose issues that crop up most of the time, the odd HP Fuel pump issue, but rare....most common is the secondary in-line fuel pump mounted on the side of the fuel tank that fails!

Best to check to see if the engine oil breather has been changed, as I believe it can cause issues (check with 2.0_Hippo)

I have both an L322 and a P38.....comfort, hmmmm the L322 is a more relaxed drive due to the oodles of power available and the more 'car' like handing....but, the P38 is a much softer more cushioned ride....

As with most BMW derived products, the spec list for the models can vary as they are just a kit of parts and an options list....Vogue was the top standard model in 2002-2005 but even then, the spec can vary greatly between them depending on what the original owner wanted...I have seen genuine Vogues without the Sat Nav, or with Sat Nav but not DSP...etc...

Best to ignore the name, and go for the one with the toys you want in it!

The Mk3 Sat Nav is basic but functional, upgrading to the Mk4 is simple and worth it, but is still now looking dated when compared to others and even to what you can get on your phone now-a-days!

The TD6 is plenty pokey enough...you can get them chipped, but budget for that gearbox sooner in that instance.

Regular Gearbox oil and filter changes are a must to try and prolong the inevitable...but it will happen at some point!

They are not as solidly built as the P38 (which was arguably the best screwed together and rust proof Range Rover ever!.....electrical issues aside that is!) and they are starting to show rust signs on wheel arches and tail gates (sound familiar?? )

They eat suspension bushes, especially the rear due to its fat ar$e, and they can be a pain to change, but if you can wrangle a spanner with confidence then it isn't so bad.

The EAS system is just as temperamental as the P38....but just like the P38, keep up on maintenance and sort issues promptly and it will be fine...the main weakness is the plastic valve block...I mean plastic...WTF were they thinking of!??!

They will throw a fault just because...for no reason...so your own diagnostic gear is paramount if you want to save trips and money to a dealer/indy.

Many available....muts nuts Faultmate will set you back £1000 or so, but is ultimate...

RSW All Comms is the most capable at the budget end, IIDTool by GAPDiagnostics is great, but uses the message centre display for readouts..so if that is fecked your stumped.....Bearmach Hawkeye has mixed reviews and can't do EAS Calibrations.....Lynx by Omnitec/Britpart little known about it, but reports are reasonable to those who have used it....

Pity Blackbox Solutions never did and looks like they won't do a Nanocom for the 2002-2005 L322's....if they did I'd be the first to buy one! (although my L322 still won't talk to diagnostics following a HID/Bi-Xenon bulb failure)

Remember the Golden Rule to buying a Range Rover - Never, Ever buy one with faults unless you are prepared for and understand the potential costs, frustration, time and head scratching that is involved in repairing it!

Complex, expensive, powerful, comfortable, unreliable, sublime, frustrating, annoying, beautiful etc are all the sorts of words I would choose for the L322.....would I be without mine despite all the problems I have had? No, I love it regardless.....if you can accept its faults, you'll love it.....

If you are after something more reliable and dependable....you'll hate it!

The EAS is way more complex than the P38 and much harder to fault rind.

I've had mine 8 years now and done 117k miles problems I've had
1 replacement air spring
Torque converter replaced at 115k miles common fault so budget 1500 if it hasn't been replaced and totally avoid one that hasn't had its major gearbox service at 90k I think it is.
Replaced the boot gas struts
That's it
It's serviced regularly by an inde who is an ex LR
Brakes it's not so bad tyres ok just keep on top of geometry checks etc..
Fabulous family car wouldn't be without it
Mines a td6 54 plate

see, there are good ones out there

2.0_hippo said:

see, there are a few good ones out there

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Edited for accuracy