Engine oil question TD5

I just did an oil change on my Defender TD5, l asked for fully synthetic 5w/40 and the shop sold me 10L of Granville Hypalube PD.

After putting it in l read on the side that it's a ACEA C3 spec oil suitable for "vehicles with exhaust emission after treatment devices requiring a low SAPS engine oil"

I am not sure what this means. Any oil experts on here? Do l have to change the oil again?

lightning said:

I just did an oil change on my Defender TD5, l asked for fully synthetic 5w/40 and the shop sold me 10L of Granville Hypalube PD.

After putting it in l read on the side that it's a ACEA C3 spec oil suitable for "vehicles with exhaust emission after treatment devices requiring a low SAPS engine oil"

I am not sure what this means. Any oil experts on here? Do l have to change the oil again?

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I think it is just modern blurb meaning it is suitable for later emissions controlled vehicles.

Fine for TD5.

Nothing to worry about the oil will be fine,

Lower additive levels apparantly. There were about twelve different types of oil to choose from!
I looked at my spare oil and discovered that l used the same ACEA C3 spec last time.

lightning said:

Lower additive levels apparantly. There were about twelve different types of oil to choose from!
I looked at my spare oil and discovered that l used the same ACEA C3 spec last time.

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ACEA C3 is a good spec for Td5. We use Carlube in NBs Td5. Imagine Granville is pretty similar.

Change it often with as close a spec as you can get that's cheap. The rest of it will rot out or you'll be dead before the engine fails. Never mind the ****e it says on the tin.

As I understand it and its a minefield A5/B5 is damned good stuff for pre cat diesels, I think the later spec C means cat and anything 2008/9 onwards will need the C3 or better spec.
I use C3 in my D3 but only because wifes Audi uses it and means I only need one oil stock.

Here you go

ACEA A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines and/or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of Low Viscosity Oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the Engine Manufacturer.

ACEA A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.

ACEA A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa*s. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt.

C: Catalyst compatibility oils
Note: These Oils will increase the DPF/GPF and TWC life and maintain the Vehicle’s Fuel Economy.
Warning: Some of these Categories may be unsuitable for use in certain Engine Types – consult the vehicle- OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt.

ACEA C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s.

ACEA C2 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s.

ACEA C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s.

ACEA C4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s.

ACEA C5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, for further improved Fuel Economy, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable and OEM-approved for use of Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.6 mPa*s.

Thanks for the information. I noticed there's a warning attached to the C spec. What engine would it be unsuitable for?

It means check your car hand book to ensure that type of oil is suitable for your car as there may be some engines that require a particular oil, it just a general advice warning to cover them if your car requires special oils.

Scooby22 said:

It means check your car hand book to ensure that type of oil is suitable for your car as there may be some engines that require a particular oil, it just a general advice warning to cover them if your car requires special oils.

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Yes. And the situation is further confused because new specs for oil are being introduced all the time, and the handbook was written years ago.

Hi there lightening

My advice would be not to use c3 oil in td5...

Acea b4 or e4 is better for this old school engine 5w40 or 10w40

Discodevon said:

Hi there lightening

My advice would be not to use c3 oil in td5...

Acea b4 or e4 is better for this old school engine 5w40 or 10w40

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B4 or E4 would be cheaper. But C3 will do no harm.

10w40 is better in my opinion for td5 in England... If you're further north than say Yorkshire then 5w40

Discodevon said:

10w40 is better in my opinion for td5 in England... If you're further north than say Yorkshire then 5w40

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Yes, oil viscosity choice should be dependent on ambient temperatures where you operate, although most ignore this.

I think lots of land rover owners are enthusiastic diyers and think higher spec oil is better for their motor, when in reality the older gear will do the job nicely, just change it every 5k.

People also experiment, not long back it was strictly 5/30 a5 for the d3 now people are running 5/40 in higher mileage examples, Im not saying its right or wrong, but I would stick to the correct viscocity myself.
Same as the old trick of low oil pressure in tdi engines, dump in some 20/50 works well but they arent quite as fussy as later engines.
I even read the other day where one guy ran 85/140 gearbox oil in his worn out 2.25 diesel, reckoned it went for many more miles!

lightning said:

I just did an oil change on my Defender TD5, l asked for fully synthetic 5w/40 and the shop sold me 10L of Granville Hypalube PD.

After putting it in l read on the side that it's a ACEA C3 spec oil suitable for "vehicles with exhaust emission after treatment devices requiring a low SAPS engine oil"

I am not sure what this means. Any oil experts on here? Do l have to change the oil again?

Click to expand...

Means it's low in sulphurous ash and phosphorous and sulphates which damage things like CAT's and DPF's. Basically it just means its low in emissions when the tiny amount of oil gets burnt and ends up going down the down-pipe.

Interesting that the guy also gave you a PD grade oil, PD is Pumpe Duse, which is for the PD injector units in a lot of VAG group TDI cars, this oil has special very high pressure lubricating additives to help with the cam struck injectors and also the fact that the PD engines had quite narrow cams so higher contact pressure as the contact surface is smaller, some people started experiencing poor running, noise etc. turned out after not that long, 10k - 15k with the wrong oil the cam lobes were wearing excessively, cause turned out to be people using the wrong oil.

Although the TD5 has a separate cam for the inectors and it is a nice big chunky thing, have you ever looked at them? The approach on the cam lobe is like a cliff, this engine will benefit from a decent oil like a PD spec oil.

Dont want to make a confusing situation worse but I thought that they took the Zinc wear additives out of some modern oils because they don't suit the new emission control systems.
But some of the older engines which have no common injector pump and the injectors each have their own pump eg TD5 and some VW engines need the older spec oils because of the very high pressure on the cam shaft which is providing the injection pressure.
My cam has one bad lobe on it which was done before I bought it and is on my list for next year when I hope to do an overhaul on the engine.
Here you can see an example of cam problems: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/132254-td5-camshaft-damage-any-input.html

I have used Halfords synthetic oil in mine, but I wondered about this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-VOLKSWAGEN-10-L-QUANTUM-PLATINUM-ENGINE-OIL-5W-40-ZGB115QLB00521-x-2/222417852884?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Edit
Discomania
I must have been typing same time as you

lynall said:

People also experiment, not long back it was strictly 5/30 A5 for the D3 now people are running 5/40 in higher mileage examples, I'm not saying its right or wrong, but I would stick to the correct viscosity myself.

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I would be careful here, I have a high performance car as my daily driver, from the factory they recommended 0W30 fully, people quickly started the engines onto 5W30 and now no one in their right mind would be using anything less than a 5W40 and I use 10W40 as our climate is within this spec. I make an allowance for this and always let the engine warm up before I let the turbo really blow. The gents who believed the little "CASTROL 0W30" stamped on the lid of the oil filler on the engines don't have their cars any more or they needed a new engine...

Factory spec oil is for a factory spec engine, the engine is not going to be new spec at 100k, still within spec I am sure but not the tight un-bedded in engine.

Just look at the TD5 owners manual and the oils it tells you you can put in it, particularly within our climate range - I would not be running a TD5 on 5W30 - in fact I would not be running anything on 5W30 apart from fairly new engine.

If I were were closer I would bring you a filter and a couple of gallons of a good quality 10W40, change your oil then we could take your TD5 for drive about through some real-world situations, city, motorway etc. and if you didn't think it sounded much better and was smoother I would change it back to 5W30 for you FOC.

raywin said:

But some of the older engines which have no common injector pump and the injectors each have their own pump eg TD5 and some VW engines need the older spec oils because of the very high pressure on the cam shaft which is providing the injection pressure.

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Which is why the PD oil is perfect and as we know we have no modern emissions control stuff to care about on a TD5.

PD oils are all c3... It's not needed in a td5... The cams are much stronger on the td5 then they are the pd engine... One has to be mindful of oil pressure and 10w40 in a td5 is perfect at keeping things flowing... 5w30 was only put in place for fuel saving not long time engine reliability... I put 10w40 in my last td5 and after about 10.000 miles the engine ran so much nicer literally night and day difference