Electrical issue HELP required please

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Tim4x4

Tim4x4

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,210
Location
In the shed. Making engines for ME
This has me beat (OK that not difficult).
I have fitted a new radio it is from Maplins and the model is NIKKAI A66HY http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/nikkai-cdcd-rw-rds-tuner-usbsdmmc-in-bluetooth-mp3-blue-illumination-a66hy

Radio works fine and all its features but when I switch the windscreen wipers onto intermittent the radio switches off at the delay, then on again, this happens each time on delay.
The radio has two positive feeds one permanent and one controlled by the ignition switch
I have a digital volt meter and when this connected it shows no drop in voltage on the orange and white wire (ignition controlled) feeding the radio when this occurs.

I have connected a feed from the ignition switch to the radio bypassing the original wiring and the radio still switches off on the wiper’s dwell period.

If I bypass the ignition switch and take the feed directly from the battery all is well (radio works when the wipers are on intermittent) but the radio will then have two permanent live feeds, not what is required.

Anyone any ideas as to the problem?
 
If you're convinced that your power supply is good then check your earths. Both the radio one and the wipers. You could do what you did with the supply and play around with a length of wire connected to a good earth point.
 
dogsbody said:
If you're convinced that your power supply is good then check your earths. Both the radio one and the wipers. You could do what you did with the supply and play around with a length of wire connected to a good earth point.
Click to expand...

I have just made up three earth wires fitted with crocodile clips at each end,
Firstly connected one to the wiper motor and a good earth point.
NO change

Second wire (first wire still connected) fitted to the radio earth wire from the rear of the radio and a good earth point.
NO change.

Third wire (first and second wire still connected) fitted to the body of the radio and a good earth point.
NO change
 
Does the radio actually switch off or does it mute.
I'm wondering if there's a phone hook up that mutes the radio and it's got crossed over with the wiper supply. I've known similar issues with a phone kit that wasn't fully removed.

Mind you if the radio does actually switch off then I suggest that you keep the radio and change the car.
 
dogsbody said:
Does the radio actually switch off or does it mute.
I'm wondering if there's a phone hook up that mutes the radio and it's got crossed over with the wiper supply. I've known similar issues with a phone kit that wasn't fully removed.

Mind you if the radio does actually switch off then I suggest that you keep the radio and change the car.
Click to expand...

Looks like I will be changing the car then. It switches off.

When the radio is switched off the screen says goodbye until it shuts down properly, this happened when wipers on intermittent.

Everything electrical in the car works fine. the electrical wiring is in the main unmolested by others. The only addition is a cooling fan a connection for it is taken from the ignition switch same connector as the radio is fed and that feeds to a relay.

I am now thinking that the interruption to the supply is only momentary such a short time span that it no visual effect on the digital multi meter but because the radio has to go through a shutdown and a switch on procedure it will do this.

What is confusing me is that they wipers and the radio are on two different circuits I have traced the wires as best I can and they are as installed at the factory.
If I remove the wiper fuse the wipers do not work (so not feeding from the radio)
If I remove the radio fuse the radio will not work (so not feeding from the wipers)
But why the interruption to the radio supply when wipers on intermittent???
 
I would checks earths again. My radio would go off when i switched on my main beam with roof lights. When i turned the roof lights off ( wired to switch on / off independent of main beam) the radio came back on. All down to earths.
 
Spent some time today checking many things, using a electrical cleaning solvent I de-grunged all of the internal connectors, fuse holders and relays. Rechecked all connections then tried the radio still switching off when wipers were on intermittent.
Now made new wiring for the radio new permanent live feed, new ignition controlled feed and new earth, all independent of the original wiring.

Radio still switched off when wipers are on intermittent.
No way was the wiper circuit having any influence on the radio feeds.

I fitted another basic radio/CD player no hands free that worked perfectly.

Now a question for the electronic guys: could it be the relay for the wipers interfering with the Bluetooth hands free controls causing the radio to switch off.

I would like to use the original radio but if the switching off is a common issue with Bluetooth hand free I will forget it and just listen to the Defender.
 
Tim4x4 said:
Spent some time today checking many things, using a electrical cleaning solvent I de-grunged all of the internal connectors, fuse holders and relays. Rechecked all connections then tried the radio still switching off when wipers were on intermittent.
Now made new wiring for the radio new permanent live feed, new ignition controlled feed and new earth, all independent of the original wiring.

Radio still switched off when wipers are on intermittent.
No way was the wiper circuit having any influence on the radio feeds.

I fitted another basic radio/CD player no hands free that worked perfectly.

Now a question for the electronic guys: could it be the relay for the wipers interfering with the Bluetooth hands free controls causing the radio to switch off.

I would like to use the original radio but if the switching off is a common issue with Bluetooth hand free I will forget it and just listen to the Defender.
Click to expand...

Bluetooth is unlikely but if the radio has / can have a remote control then you might have hit on it. An old fashioned suppressor or a ferrite core might be your answer.
 
Tim4x4 said:
OK I will go along with that theory:

What do I purchase and

HOW do I connect a suppressor or a ferrite core???
Click to expand...

A suppressor is basically a smoothing capacitor connected from the offending supply to earth. It ignores the main current but allows spikes to flow to earth. A ferrite core does a similar job but simply by being wrapped around the offending cable. Back to Maplins maybe? It's been years since I fitted a suppressor.
 
dogsbody said:
A suppressor is basically a smoothing capacitor connected from the offending supply to earth. It ignores the main current but allows spikes to flow to earth. A ferrite core does a similar job but simply by being wrapped around the offending cable. Back to Maplins maybe? It's been years since I fitted a suppressor.
Click to expand...

Thank you Dogsbody I will give it a try.
 
Another possibility is that the wiper control unit is doing something that interferes with the radio. People usually call them 'wiper relays' but they're a bit more complicated than that, to provide the intermittent function. Maybe it's spiking or giving an electromagnetic pulse as it does the intermittent function. Similarly with the wiper switch. I think something must be feeding some interference into the system that's affecting the radio. Dogsbody's suppressor might work, but equally something might be giving you an electromagnetic spike that mimics the radio's remote control.
 
"If I bypass the ignition switch and take the feed directly from the battery all is well (radio works when the wipers are on intermittent) but the radio will then have two permanent live feeds, not what is required"

This for me proves the earths are okay and it's the ignition live either spiking or switching of momentarily. A quick fix( bodge) could be to wire a relay from the ignition and feed a battery live through the relay.

Mick
 
texpis said:
"If I bypass the ignition switch and take the feed directly from the battery all is well (radio works when the wipers are on intermittent) but the radio will then have two permanent live feeds, not what is required"

This for me proves the earths are okay and it's the ignition live either spiking or switching of momentarily. A quick fix( bodge) could be to wire a relay from the ignition and feed a battery live through the relay.

Mick
Click to expand...

Have tried that did not work.
 
texpis said:
"If I bypass the ignition switch and take the feed directly from the battery all is well (radio works when the wipers are on intermittent) but the radio will then have two permanent live feeds, not what is required"

This for me proves the earths are okay and it's the ignition live either spiking or switching of momentarily. A quick fix( bodge) could be to wire a relay from the ignition and feed a battery live through the relay.

Mick
Click to expand...

Mick you reminded me that I did get it working correctly, I have spent all day trying to recreate the correct working situation.
Even to the point of powering the radio from a separate battery and still it switched off when the wipers were on intermittent.
I then placed the radio on the cubby box and not in the dash din aperture and it worked OK. (this is where it was when previously it worked)

So moving it from the dash and placing it on the cubby box fixed the problem, I tried this several times and it was consistent. Cubby box it worked dash aperture it switched off.

I deduce from that, it is the wiper control unit creating the issue and it is an airborne transmission turning off the radio.

So am I any closer in solving the problem? :crazy:

Not without help from someone who can tell me how to shield the wiper control unit from the radio or advise on an alternative control unit which works in a different way. :confused:
OR I can
I can move the radio (did not really want to do that) :(
I can move the wiper control unit (did not really want to do that) :eek:
I can never use the wipers on intermittent (could be an inconvenience) :mad:
Switch the radio off when it is raining (succumbing to the whims of a piece of electronic equipment NO) :mad2:
Take a hammer to the radio and fit another one (probably will do this). :rolleyes:
Still open to help if you have any ideas on how to get it working in the dash din slot??????
 
That's a bit of a cracker. One final check to prove the electromagnetic interference theory: Earth and battery supplies for radio on 1meter leads. From what you've said, it should work fine with the wipers on inter when 1 meter away, then be affected when you bring the radio closer to the wiper control unit. If this is the case, I'd try another unit (borrowed from a friend?) If this works OK, take the unit back to Maplins and buy something else.
 
zeaphod said:
That's a bit of a cracker. One final check to prove the electromagnetic interference theory: Earth and battery supplies for radio on 1meter leads. From what you've said, it should work fine with the wipers on inter when 1 meter away, then be affected when you bring the radio closer to the wiper control unit. If this is the case, I'd try another unit (borrowed from a friend?) If this works OK, take the unit back to Maplins and buy something else.
Click to expand...

I do have another radio unit it is a basic radio CD player and that works fine when wipers are on intermittent as you would expect.
This radio unit with its additional features again works absolutely fine except when the wipers are on intermittent.
The features I wanted when purchased were the hand free and the USB socket.
I know in real terms the cost of the unit was small (special offer £40.00) and you get what you pay for but I never gave it a thought that something fitted to the vehicle as standard would stop it from working correctly.
I have spent a considerable amount of time on this it is probably time to move on.
I will try another wiper control unit both standard and after market if I can borrow from friends. If that fails I will fit the radio in my better half's Morris Minor but I bet the electric fuel pump switches it off. Then it will be the hammer.
 
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