dual battery

I would like to change to a dual battery setup. What electrical equipment do
I need to make it work?

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/4x4-cars/200607/1

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:37:28 GMT, "ihcnut via CarKB.com" <u19951@uwe>
wrote:

>I would like to change to a dual battery setup. What electrical equipment do
>I need to make it work?


Make, model, year?
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

SnoMan wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:37:28 GMT, "ihcnut via CarKB.com" <u19951@uwe>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I would like to change to a dual battery setup. What electrical equipment do
>>I need to make it work?
>
>
>
> Make, model, year?
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com

Purpose?

--
..boB
Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red.
1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver
1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast.

..boB proclaimed:

> SnoMan wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:37:28 GMT, "ihcnut via CarKB.com" <u19951@uwe>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I would like to change to a dual battery setup. What electrical
>>> equipment do
>>> I need to make it work?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Make, model, year?
>> -----------------
>> The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com
>
>
> Purpose?
>
Budget?

It is a 68 IH 4x4 p/u and I would like to have confidence that the engine
will crank. If I could switch from one battery to another, it would be nice.
I have been in the situation where the battery went dead while on the trail
and it is more than just aggravating.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/4x4-cars/200607/1

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:31:39 GMT, "ihcnut via CarKB.com" <u19951@uwe>
wrote:

>It is a 68 IH 4x4 p/u and I would like to have confidence that the engine
>will crank. If I could switch from one battery to another, it would be nice.
>I have been in the situation where the battery went dead while on the trail
>and it is more than just aggravating.


I would just parrallel two of them because you will get more than
twice the power that way. More than running each one down seperately
because battery efficency drops as load increases due to interan
resistance and gassing and spliting the load between two batteries
reduces load per battery and will also give you a lot more starting
power too, even when they are nearly dead.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

One should only parallel two batteries if they are of the same type and age
otherwise the poor battery will drain the good battery until they both put
out the same voltage and you could end up without the ability to start your
truck. Furthermore, if both batteries are low your alternator may not be
able to charge them both at the same time and could overload the alternator
(though with a '68 you could probably put in a big enough alternator to
compensate since you don't have all the electrical draw that modern trucks
have). If you just put in some kind of switch (i.e. a solinoid) then when
you cross connect the batteries the poor battery can drain the good battery
very rapidly which can cause all kinds of problems, even a fire.

I recently added a dual battery setup to my Dodge and went with a
Hellroaring BIC-95300B isolator/combiner which is designed to provide a
backup starting battery. It cost about $250 for the unit, remote switch and
shipping, but I think its worth it. Under normal operation, the truck runs
from the main battery. Once the main battery reaches a full charge the
backup starting battery gets charged. When I shut off the engine and there
is no charge going to the batteries then only the main battery is connected
to run the radio, lights, camper, etc. If the main battery doesn't have
enough amperage to crank the motor, I throw a switch in the cab and the
backup battery is combined through a regulating circuit so as not to
overload the battery cables and I have enough current to crank the engine.
You can also combine the batteries if you are using high current devices
like a winch. I have used it after camping for over a week, using the
lights, fan, stereo and water pump in the camper. The battery monitor will
indicate a poor or weak battery (I don't know what voltage the indicator is
measuring for it's various levels), yet I throw the switch and viola, the
engire cranks without a problem. Before then, if the monitor got down to
poor, I would barely have enough current to start the engine on a warm day.


"SnoMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:31:39 GMT, "ihcnut via CarKB.com" <u19951@uwe>
> wrote:
>
>>It is a 68 IH 4x4 p/u and I would like to have confidence that the engine
>>will crank. If I could switch from one battery to another, it would be
>>nice.
>>I have been in the situation where the battery went dead while on the
>>trail
>>and it is more than just aggravating.
>
>
> I would just parrallel two of them because you will get more than
> twice the power that way. More than running each one down seperately
> because battery efficency drops as load increases due to interan
> resistance and gassing and spliting the load between two batteries
> reduces load per battery and will also give you a lot more starting
> power too, even when they are nearly dead.
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com

I don't think it's fair to call that vehicle a p/u. It's more like a
tractor with a p/u bed on the back. I bet it will out-pull just about any
pickup except a diesel with a high gear ratio. I wish IH still made
consumer products. The '81 Scout II concept vehicle had _lots_ of promise.

"ihcnut via CarKB.com" <u19951@uwe> wrote in message
news:6407839429748@uwe...
> It is a 68 IH 4x4 p/u and I would like to have confidence that the engine
> will crank. If I could switch from one battery to another, it would be
> nice.
> I have been in the situation where the battery went dead while on the
> trail
> and it is more than just aggravating.
>
> --
> Message posted via CarKB.com
> http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/4x4-cars/200607/1
>

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:32:13 GMT, "Ed H." <[email protected]>
wrote:

>One should only parallel two batteries if they are of the same type and age
>otherwise the poor battery will drain the good battery until they both put
>out the same voltage and you could end up without the ability to start your
>truck.


This is GREATLY overstated. I have been doing it for 17 years and I
have never had a "matched" set of battieries and NEVER had any
problems. I have two vehicles with dual batteries too and I get great
battery life.(and let me tell you, snow plow duty is tuff on
batteries) I typcally replace the main battery every 3 years and move
it over to the aux postion and get a total of 6 years or more out of a
battery. They last a lot longer because the total load on them per
battery is greatly reduced. You just do not want to parrallel a deep
cycle with a regular car battery or a maintainance free with one that
is not thats all because they does have different working voltages for
ful charge (maintainance free is higher) and you will have problems.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:57:29 GMT, "Ed H." <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I don't think it's fair to call that vehicle a p/u. It's more like a
>tractor with a p/u bed on the back. I bet it will out-pull just about any
>pickup except a diesel with a high gear ratio. I wish IH still made
>consumer products. The '81 Scout II concept vehicle had _lots_ of promise.


You could say the same about my old J20 Jeep P/U too because it is
tuff as nails and tuffer than any new truck of any brand. Few creature
comforts though. It hauled 20K plus grain trialers for first 7 years
of life and then plowed snow until a few years ago and it still runs
and still stock drive train too.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

ihcnut via CarKB.com wrote:
> It is a 68 IH 4x4 p/u and I would like to have confidence that the engine
> will crank. If I could switch from one battery to another, it would be nice.
> I have been in the situation where the battery went dead while on the trail
> and it is more than just aggravating.
>
OK, so what you're really looking for is the ability to switch back and forth
between two batteries, rather than run them both at the same time. Check with these
folks.

http://www.hellroaring.com/

Or do a google search for battery isolators

It's going to be expensive. But if you want something that's rock solid reliable,
that's what you have to pay.

--
..boB
Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red.
1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver
1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast.

Thanks alot. Sounds like you had the answer. I will give it a try. Thanks for
the help.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/4x4-cars/200607/1

ihcnut via CarKB.com proclaimed:

> It is a 68 IH 4x4 p/u and I would like to have confidence that the engine
> will crank. If I could switch from one battery to another, it would be nice.
> I have been in the situation where the battery went dead while on the trail
> and it is more than just aggravating.
>

The safest and most reliable way to do it would be with an isolator rig
like those used on RV's.

Anecdotal folks HAVE simply wired two in parallel, but all of those have
been lucky enough to never have suffered an internal short in either
battery--or they'd have had an underhood explosion involving battery
acid.

Monkey Wards used to have a dual power battery that had an extra set of
cells you could enable by pulling up on a lever on top of the battery,
dunno who actually made it for them or if they are still available.

Battery going dead on the trail sounds odd--something in the charging
circuit isn't set up properly for your driving style. Unless you use an
electric winch a lot--in which case go for a deep cycle battery for the
winch and a normal one for your engine--connect via isolators and carry
a set of heavy jumpers so you could use the deep cycle from the winch in
an emergency.

ihcnut via CarKB.com proclaimed:

> Thanks alot. Sounds like you had the answer. I will give it a try. Thanks for
> the help.
>

Battery isolators are about 50 to 90 dollars. Automagically keep both
batteries charged, prevent one from draining the other. Cheaper than
risking damage to a battery or needing to buy new shoes all the time
from hiking out of the boondocks for help. Try a local RV store or J.
C. Whitney, etc.

You are right. It has a 4.88 rear end so it is not a threat on the highway,
but when it gets off the pavement, it keeps going. With the 4 doors it is
roomy and it is its own 4x4 winch.

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

I don't know much about those old Jeeps, but I bet they are indeed "tuff as
nails." Furthermore, I don't know what kind of engine/transmission
combination the OP has, but I do know a little about IH's vehicles
(including the rust factor which they can get away with because there is
much extra steel to begin with). My '78 Scout with a 345, 2 barrel and Borg
Warner T-19 transmission pushed a broken down F250 up a steep hill so he
could bump start it on the down hill side (he failed to secure the battery,
it jumped out of the tray, shorted and burned the wires and there was not
enough room to jump straight to his starter). I squeezed past on his left
side, turned around, and kissed his trailer hitch with my Scout in 2Hi, 1st
gear (6.32:1, limited slip) and idled up the dirt hill After he got it
started he thanked me and asked how hard I was pushing on the excelerator in
low range. He didn't believe me when I told him I was in 2Hi and idling.
IH manufactured farm equipment long before they got into consumer products
and as a result the tended to (some would say) over build them. Alas, the
union broke one of the best truck manufactures the USA has ever seen (I know
they still build commercial trucks and their mom & pop consumer products
never had high production numbers, but IMHO they were the best of their
day - even tougher than a comparable vintage Dodge).


"SnoMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:57:29 GMT, "Ed H." <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I don't think it's fair to call that vehicle a p/u. It's more like a
>>tractor with a p/u bed on the back. I bet it will out-pull just about any
>>pickup except a diesel with a high gear ratio. I wish IH still made
>>consumer products. The '81 Scout II concept vehicle had _lots_ of
>>promise.
>
>
> You could say the same about my old J20 Jeep P/U too because it is
> tuff as nails and tuffer than any new truck of any brand. Few creature
> comforts though. It hauled 20K plus grain trialers for first 7 years
> of life and then plowed snow until a few years ago and it still runs
> and still stock drive train too.
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:21:26 GMT, "Ed H." <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I don't know much about those old Jeeps, but I bet they are indeed "tuff as
>nails." Furthermore, I don't know what kind of engine/transmission
>combination the OP has, but I do know a little about IH's vehicles
>(including the rust factor which they can get away with because there is
>much extra steel to begin with). My '78 Scout with a 345, 2 barrel and Borg
>Warner T-19 transmission pushed a broken down F250 up a steep hill so he
>could bump start it on the down hill side (he failed to secure the battery,
>it jumped out of the tray, shorted and burned the wires and there was not
>enough room to jump straight to his starter). I squeezed past on his left
>side, turned around, and kissed his trailer hitch with my Scout in 2Hi, 1st
>gear (6.32:1, limited slip) and idled up the dirt hill After he got it
>started he thanked me and asked how hard I was pushing on the excelerator in
>low range. He didn't believe me when I told him I was in 2Hi and idling.
>IH manufactured farm equipment long before they got into consumer products
>and as a result the tended to (some would say) over build them. Alas, the
>union broke one of the best truck manufactures the USA has ever seen (I know
>they still build commercial trucks and their mom & pop consumer products
>never had high production numbers, but IMHO they were the best of their
>day - even tougher than a comparable vintage Dodge).


I had a IH Scout once, a 78 with a 345 and a tourque flite with
factory dual. The 345 does not like to rev much past 3000RPM and is a
not smooth or quiet either. My Jeep has a AMC 360 in it with a GM THM
400 and a BorgWarner Tcase with D44 and D60 axles. From what I have
seen, AMC made some nice sturdy V8 with great torque too. It also has
a GM sterring with a Ford carb and igniton (it came this way from
factory) If I had it to do over, I would buy another old J20 but not a
Scout.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

> I had a IH Scout once, a 78 with a 345 and a tourque flite with
> factory dual. The 345 does not like to rev much past 3000RPM and is a
> not smooth or quiet either. My Jeep has a AMC 360 in it with a GM THM
> 400 and a BorgWarner Tcase with D44 and D60 axles. From what I have
> seen, AMC made some nice sturdy V8 with great torque too. It also has
> a GM sterring with a Ford carb and igniton (it came this way from
> factory) If I had it to do over, I would buy another old J20 but not a
> Scout.
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com

Aah the venerable AMC 360. Nearly as much a torque monster as the IH 345.
Actually, I don't know the spec.s on that engine, I just know that I pulled
2 jeeps with said engine out of a lake with my Scout. The first one was
nearly submerged (he was trying to show how capable his rig was and go
stuck). The owner of the second said "I can pull you out" but he got bogged
down in the mud near the shore. I hooked up with an elastic tow strap, high
enough above the water line to get good traction, and put in 4Hi, 1st gear
(for bragging rights) started the pull with the engine at 2,000 rpm and
didn't stop until the first jeep was where I started. The circumstances
could have been reversed (except that I wouldn't back any vehicle that far
into a lake), but I can still shut both of them down with a simple reminder
of that trip.

No doubt the IH 345 doesn't rev very high, in fact anything over 4,000 rpm
and one will most likely rebuild the top of the engine. But it does produce
loads of torque and mine has an incredible low range. Factory specification
is 307 ft-lbs @ 2000 rpm yet only 185 hp @ 4,000 rpm. It'll go up any hill,
but it won't go down the highway at great speed. Though I find the engine
smooth if not quiet.

The only draw back is the rust. I'm thinking of putting on a fiberglass tub
(lots of work and money, but it should shave many hundreds of pounds) If I
had to do it over, I would get a Scout old enough that I didn't have to have
it smog certified every 2 years, or a Suzuki Sidekick/ Chevrolet Tracker so
when I finally broke it I could put on the back pack and just walk away
*grin*.

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:55:16 GMT, "Ed H." <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Aah the venerable AMC 360. Nearly as much a torque monster as the IH 345.
>Actually, I don't know the spec.s on that engine, I just know that I pulled
>2 jeeps with said engine out of a lake with my Scout. The first one was
>nearly submerged (he was trying to show how capable his rig was and go
>stuck). The owner of the second said "I can pull you out" but he got bogged
>down in the mud near the shore. I hooked up with an elastic tow strap, high
>enough above the water line to get good traction, and put in 4Hi, 1st gear
>(for bragging rights) started the pull with the engine at 2,000 rpm and
>didn't stop until the first jeep was where I started. The circumstances
>could have been reversed (except that I wouldn't back any vehicle that far
>into a lake), but I can still shut both of them down with a simple reminder
>of that trip.
>
>No doubt the IH 345 doesn't rev very high, in fact anything over 4,000 rpm
>and one will most likely rebuild the top of the engine. But it does produce
>loads of torque and mine has an incredible low range. Factory specification
>is 307 ft-lbs @ 2000 rpm yet only 185 hp @ 4,000 rpm. It'll go up any hill,
>but it won't go down the highway at great speed. Though I find the engine
>smooth if not quiet.
>
>The only draw back is the rust. I'm thinking of putting on a fiberglass tub
>(lots of work and money, but it should shave many hundreds of pounds) If I
>had to do it over, I would get a Scout old enough that I didn't have to have
>it smog certified every 2 years, or a Suzuki Sidekick/ Chevrolet Tracker so
>when I finally broke it I could put on the back pack and just walk away
>*grin*.


I have owend 4 350 powered 4x4's since 73 and 2 currently. and two
were carbed and prelower compression emission engines. The other two
are FI (one TBI and one Vortec currently) And counting the scout, the
360 AMC has more grunt at lower RPMs than any of them hands down. THe
350's past it above 3000 RPM but below 2500 the 360 is a stump puller.
I had a 78 cherokee for a bit a few years ago that had a 6 and single
speed 4x4 and it blew a gys mind with it helped a diesel ford dualie
up a hill on wet grass that the diesel could not do on its own and
another 4x4 out of a ditch too. If AMC had marketed the fullsize
Cherokees in late 80 and into earlier 90's they may not of been bought
out because they would have sold then as the SUV craze was starting
but they killed them in 83. Chysler killed J10/20 in 89. I want to
restore mine to like new one day as it does not have much rust and it
is complete and straight. It has been sitting in barn for a few years
now and it takes a lap or two around the property a few times a year.
(I have 12 acres) Not sure what I am going to do to it restoration
wise so I have been holding off because I might do a fuel conversion
and engine change when I do it. (Propane or straight alchol (12 to 1
CR for those fuels) ALso you are correct about Scouts rusting. They
used poor quality metal and the body parts were bare untreated stell
with a high phosphate content just beggin to rust.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 19:08:16 GMT, SnoMan <[email protected]> wrote:


>
>I would just parrallel two of them because you will get more than
>twice the power

more than *twice* the power? <g> So I use that extra power to recharge
the batteries adn never need an alternator! Love it!


But... I agree, simply parallel them for ease of use. That is what the
diesel trucks do.