Don't suppose anyone wants a minibus?

Blatant plug...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290002687690

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
George Orwell (1903 - 1950) Animal Farm

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:11:40 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

> Blatant plug...

"...but if you pay by paypal I will require an extra 3% to offset Paypal
fees. This does NOT apply to the deposit - that can be paid by paypal and
I'll pick up the fees. And don't tell me that Paypal don't charge, oh yes
they do if you have a merchant account, as I do."

Naughty, a surcharge for the use of PayPal etc is not allowed under eBay
rules.

"Sellers may not charge eBay buyers an additional fee for their use of
ordinary forms of payment, including acceptance of cheques, money orders,
electronic transfers or credit cards, except as described below. Such
costs should be built into the price of the item."

Full text:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On or around Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:03:40 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:11:40 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> Blatant plug...
>
>"...but if you pay by paypal I will require an extra 3% to offset Paypal
>fees. This does NOT apply to the deposit - that can be paid by paypal and
>I'll pick up the fees. And don't tell me that Paypal don't charge, oh yes
>they do if you have a merchant account, as I do."
>
>Naughty, a surcharge for the use of PayPal etc is not allowed under eBay
>rules.

well, since eBay own Paypal (IIRC) they can stop bloody charging me then. I
have to pay 3.4% on every penny I receive. How can I build that into the
price of an auction, other than to charge *everyone* 3.4% extra?

>"Sellers may not charge eBay buyers an additional fee for their use of
>ordinary forms of payment, including acceptance of cheques, money orders,
>electronic transfers or credit cards, except as described below. Such
>costs should be built into the price of the item."

I'm not charging them UNLESS they use Paypal, though... They're welcome to
use cheques, cash, money orders, direct EFT to my account and suchlike...

>Full text:
>
>http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html

but I'll have a look, I had an idea that this might be the case, but if so
it's a con - eBay are effectively blagging extra fees from us...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right
is to be none the less free than you were before."
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16

On or around Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:03:40 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>Full text:
>
>http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html

OK, I've modified it.

and I've written to eBay (who now own Paypal) and complained. I've also
found that I can't, once having listed it, remove the "pay by paypal" option
from the listing, buggrem.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

> well, since eBay own Paypal (IIRC) they can stop bloody charging me then. I
> have to pay 3.4% on every penny I receive. How can I build that into the
> price of an auction, other than to charge *everyone* 3.4% extra?
>
> I'm not charging them UNLESS they use Paypal, though... They're welcome to
> use cheques, cash, money orders, direct EFT to my account and suchlike...

On personal auctions I add a little bit onto postage to cover some of
the cost, on my business auctions I offer a 3% discount to people
paying by cash/cheque!

I've tried Nochex and Pppay, but no-one ever pays using them so I gave
up.

In any event I find that I get higher final prices if I allow people to
pay using Paypal so IMHO it is worth £3.40/£100 as I usually get that
back in higher value bids - tho when you work out your Paypal charges
over the year for your accounts it gets a bit scary! - not to mention
my annual eBay bill!! In the grand scheme of things tho, it is a very
cheap way to retail items.

I do sympathise on a vehicle tho. If I sell a car I always put that
I won't accept Paypal as a general rule, but might consider it if
I come to some arrangement with the buyer. Not strictly breaking
eBay rules, but allows the buyer to use PP if they are prepared to
pay the charges!

Matt

P.S. Shame it is a minibus variety otherwise I'd be bidding!

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:03:40 +0100, Dave Liquorice <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:11:40 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> Blatant plug...
> ...
> Naughty, a surcharge for the use of PayPal etc is not allowed under eBay
> rules.

ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank charges
these days - so I thought.

Would that mean that ebay/paypal/skype are being a trifle heavy-handed?

--
William Tasso

110 V8

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:16:51 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

> and I've written to eBay (who now own Paypal) and complained.

Not that it will make any difference. eBay is about making money for eBay
and sod everyone else.

As Mr Maddock says it is still a cheap way of accepting "credit/debit
card" payments and for most things you can build the fees into the
postage costs. I've also offered other means of electronic payment,
nochex, fastpay (RIP) and BACS and likewise no one has ever used them.
It's always cheque, cash in the post or PayPal.

As a buyer I like PayPal, is quick and well integrated to eBay. As a
seller I loath it...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:53:56 +0100, William Tasso wrote:

> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank
> charges these days - so I thought.

Read the help file link. It appears that is so for credit/debit card
transactions but not for electronic money transfers. A CC/DC funded
Paypal (or similar) transaction is apparently a electronic money
transfer.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:33:17 +0100, Dave Liquorice <[email protected]>
wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:53:56 +0100, William Tasso wrote:
>
>> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank
>> charges these days - so I thought.
>
> Read the help file link. It appears that is so for credit/debit card
> transactions but not for electronic money transfers.

Odd - my bank charges a small fortune for electronic funds transfer,

> A CC/DC funded
> Paypal (or similar) transaction is apparently a electronic money
> transfer.

Where there's money, there's a sleazebag lining his pockets.

Wonder if that's ever been tested.
--
William Tasso

110 V8

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 02:53:37 +0100, William Tasso wrote:

>>> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank
>>> charges these days - so I thought.
>>
>> Read the help file link. It appears that is so for credit/debit card
>> transactions but not for electronic money transfers.
>
> Odd - my bank charges a small fortune for electronic funds transfer,

We need to be clear about who is charging who here. There is nothing to
stop a "money moving agency" charging for the transaction. What is
stopped, apparently, is the seller passing charges for electronic money
transfers, *as a surcharge*, onto the buyer.

A seller can pass on, as a surcharge, the fees that they incur if they
accept a CC/DC transation directly but only up to the amount they have
been charged by the bank.

> Wonder if that's ever been tested.

Do you feel rich? Do you want take on eBays lawyers?

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Matthew Maddock wrote:
>> well, since eBay own Paypal (IIRC) they can stop bloody charging me
>> then. I have to pay 3.4% on every penny I receive. How can I build
>> that into the price of an auction, other than to charge *everyone*
>> 3.4% extra? I'm not charging them UNLESS they use Paypal, though... They're
>> welcome to use cheques, cash, money orders, direct EFT to my account
>> and suchlike...
>
> On personal auctions I add a little bit onto postage to cover some of
> the cost, on my business auctions I offer a 3% discount to people
> paying by cash/cheque!
>
> I've tried Nochex and Pppay, but no-one ever pays using them so I gave
> up.
>
> In any event I find that I get higher final prices if I allow people
> to pay using Paypal so IMHO it is worth £3.40/£100 as I usually get
> that back in higher value bids - tho when you work out your Paypal
> charges over the year for your accounts it gets a bit scary! - not to
> mention my annual eBay bill!! In the grand scheme of things tho, it
> is a very cheap way to retail items.
>
> I do sympathise on a vehicle tho. If I sell a car I always put that
> I won't accept Paypal as a general rule, but might consider it if
> I come to some arrangement with the buyer. Not strictly breaking
> eBay rules, but allows the buyer to use PP if they are prepared to
> pay the charges!
>
> Matt
>
> P.S. Shame it is a minibus variety otherwise I'd be bidding!

AITI, Isn't a minibus commercial? so attracts VAT?

--
"He who says it cannot be done would be well advised not to interrupt
her doing it."

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!

> AITI, Isn't a minibus commercial? so attracts VAT?

Depends if the seller is VAT registered or not.

Matt

On or around Fri, 30 Jun 2006 10:14:01 GMT, "GbH"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Matthew Maddock wrote:
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> P.S. Shame it is a minibus variety otherwise I'd be bidding!

you could always black the windows out... actually, you'll get a van a lot
cheaper than a bus - the presence of all the seats and belts is what makes
buses worth money.
>
>AITI, Isn't a minibus commercial? so attracts VAT?

I'm not registered, so effectively, the final price includes VAT.

I'll relisting it with no paypal (see other post) and will make some oblique
statement such as you say to get around the rules. Bet the b***ards pull it
again, mind.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]

On or around Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:39:35 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:16:51 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> and I've written to eBay (who now own Paypal) and complained.
>
>Not that it will make any difference. eBay is about making money for eBay
>and sod everyone else.

and I wasted my time modifying the listing, an' all, cos bloody eBay pulled
it anyway. I've sent 'em a rude email expressing my feelings about this.
Sionce it alreasdy had bids, I wasn't able to alter the original description
nor to alter the payment options.

>As Mr Maddock says it is still a cheap way of accepting "credit/debit
>card" payments and for most things you can build the fees into the
>postage costs.

yeah, I use it for just that reason, but the percentage fee on a transaction
the size I envisage this motor could be in 3 figures, so sod 'em.

>As a buyer I like PayPal, is quick and well integrated to eBay. As a
>seller I loath it...

If they put about 0.2% on every single paypal transaction it'd be a trivial
sum and would be much fairer, and I bet overall they'd make more. As it is,
us businesses are funding a free ride for everyone else.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849

On or around Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:33:17 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:53:56 +0100, William Tasso wrote:
>
>> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank
>> charges these days - so I thought.
>
>Read the help file link. It appears that is so for credit/debit card
>transactions but not for electronic money transfers. A CC/DC funded
>Paypal (or similar) transaction is apparently a electronic money
>transfer.

yeah, which is a neat way of getting round it. We are allowed (and in ebay)
to charge extra for CC payments, but only if you have a CC merchant account.

they (dubiously, IMHO) class paypal among ordinary means of payment.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849

On or around Fri, 30 Jun 2006 08:05:34 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 02:53:37 +0100, William Tasso wrote:
>
>>>> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank
>>>> charges these days - so I thought.
>>>
>>> Read the help file link. It appears that is so for credit/debit card
>>> transactions but not for electronic money transfers.
>>
>> Odd - my bank charges a small fortune for electronic funds transfer,
>
>We need to be clear about who is charging who here. There is nothing to
>stop a "money moving agency" charging for the transaction. What is
>stopped, apparently, is the seller passing charges for electronic money
>transfers, *as a surcharge*, onto the buyer.
>
>A seller can pass on, as a surcharge, the fees that they incur if they
>accept a CC/DC transation directly but only up to the amount they have
>been charged by the bank.

yeah, and I was only asking for 3% whereas I have to pay 3.4%... and it's a
royal con by eBay, who own Paypal. Just another way of swelling ebay's
coffers...

>> Wonder if that's ever been tested.
>
>Do you feel rich? Do you want take on eBays lawyers?

nor me neither - it needs the americans to get together a class action, I
reckon.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:41:26 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

> they (dubiously, IMHO) class paypal among ordinary means of payment.

Agreed, especially as Paypal do CC charge backs. Now if they didn't I
wouldn't mind the fee so much as sort of "insurance".

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:07:54 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:41:26 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> they (dubiously, IMHO) class paypal among ordinary means of payment.
>
>Agreed, especially as Paypal do CC charge backs. Now if they didn't I
>wouldn't mind the fee so much as sort of "insurance".

and especially as those charge-backs often seem to be based on nothing
more than "the buyer asked us to"...

Wouldn't sell anything substantial via Paypal. Missus has had a
couple of charge-backs for "goods not delivered", despite them being
shipped and without any form of investigation by paypal. Maybe lost
in the post, or maybe the buyer just fancied a freebie...

--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:40:04 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

> If they put about 0.2% on every single paypal transaction it'd be a
> trivial sum and would be much fairer, and I bet overall they'd make
> more. As it is, us businesses are funding a free ride for everyone
> else.

It's not just business it's anyone who wants to accept CC/DC payments.
I'm a private seller, flogging off the household dross. It if I want
people to be able to buy my dross by CC/DC, and most people do, I have to
upgrade to a "Premier Account". I then get stung by the incoming fees.
The real ****er is the fact that *all* incoming transactions attract a
fee, even those funded by a PayPal balance, thus Paypal haven't had to
pay a CC company fee for that money.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

> It's not just business it's anyone who wants to accept CC/DC payments.
> I'm a private seller, flogging off the household dross. It if I want
> people to be able to buy my dross by CC/DC, and most people do, I have to
> upgrade to a "Premier Account". I then get stung by the incoming fees.
> The real ****er is the fact that *all* incoming transactions attract a
> fee, even those funded by a PayPal balance, thus Paypal haven't had to
> pay a CC company fee for that money.

Yes - they snuck that one in the back door - they didn't used to charge
if it was from a Paypal account, even if you had a Premier a/c, but
somewhere along the line they started doing so - what a scam! It's not
like they aren't making enough money already is it?!

Matt