Death wobble and swivel pin preload.

the_wolf · Friday at 18:58

I've found so many conflicting things about this that I thought id just ask here. I've had a proper rattle through my steering when I go over any large bumps or potholes which I put down to swivel pin preload. Id lived with it for a while before I finally decided to sort something. I checked the front right preload and it was pretty loose so I removed quite a few shims until I got what I thought was close to what it should be. Didn't get the chance to do the left which is still quite loose. The other day however I was driving at about 50 and had the dreaded death wobble for a few seconds before it stopped. Hasn't reoccurred but what could I be looking at as having caused it? There doesn't seem to be a bit of a clunk/click from the front now and again but I can't see anything obvious. All bushes are new and all bolts torqued properly.

96 plate 300tdi 110

Anaconda · Friday at 19:45

Did you renew the bolts with the bushes? I ask because I changed the panard rod bushes, made no difference until I changed the bolts.
Steering damper, Steering box drop arm?

tottot · Friday at 20:01

Fix the other side, new top pin and bush if there is any side to side movement at the top of the swivel housing. In this case just removing shims will only improve things for a bit.

the_wolf · Friday at 20:07

Anaconda said:
Did you renew the bolts with the bushes? I ask because I changed the panard rod bushes, made no difference until I changed the bolts.
Steering damper, Steering box drop arm?

Steering damper wont cause that but I'll check the drop arm. And yeah the panhard rod bushes and bolts are all new.

the_wolf · Friday at 20:08

tottot said:
Fix the other side, new top pin and bush if there is any side to side movement at the top of the swivel housing. In this case just removing shims will only improve things for a bit.

Both pins are in great condition. Ive seen worn pins before, including someone's I repaired that had no pin left whatsoever and he wondered why the steering felt off

. I'll do the left side tonight and see how it goes tomorrow

tottot · Friday at 20:55

A dead or nearly dead shock/damper can result in that sort of rattle upon hitting a pot hole but pre load first.

bluedog333 · Friday at 21:00

I’d say N/S preload, followed by steering shaft UJs. Maybe both.

the_wolf · Friday at 21:20

tottot said:
A dead or nearly dead shock/damper can result in that sort of rattle upon hitting a pot hole but pre load first.

I had replaced the damper ages ago to try and solve the problem but no difference

the_wolf · Friday at 21:20

bluedog333 said:
I’d say N/S preload, followed by steering shaft UJs. Maybe both.

I'll have a look at it tonight then. One of the steering UJs is newish, the other is probably original.

the_wolf · Friday at 21:27

Oh and the main thing I was looking for was the actual swivel preloads with seals, everywhere I look it's a different figure

KISSMYAURA · Friday at 21:37

the_wolf said:
I've found so many conflicting things about this that I thought id just ask here. I've had a proper rattle through my steering when I go over any large bumps or potholes which I put down to swivel pin preload. Id lived with it for a while before I finally decided to sort something. I checked the front right preload and it was pretty loose so I removed quite a few shims until I got what I thought was close to what it should be. Didn't get the chance to do the left which is still quite loose. The other day however I was driving at about 50 and had the dreaded death wobble for a few seconds before it stopped. Hasn't reoccurred but what could I be looking at as having caused it? There doesn't seem to be a bit of a clunk/click from the front now and again but I can't see anything obvious. All bushes are new and all bolts torqued properly.

96 plate 300tdi 110

sounds like your swival pins are worn, eyes are not micrometers ......no amount of shims will fix that easy job as well.

tottot · Friday at 21:47

the_wolf said:
I had replaced the damper ages ago to try and solve the problem.

The axle ones I mean.

the_wolf · Friday at 22:05

tottot said:
The axle ones I mean.

Those are both new

tottot · Saturday at 07:45

Swivel pin load and steering joints it is then, good luck.

the_wolf · Saturday at 23:03

tottot said:
Swivel pin load and steering joints it is then, good luck.

Checked over both swivel pin preloads and whilst I can't get an exact number (due to poor information available as to what that number should actually be and crap scales) it feels fine to me. Pins are not worn in the slightest and still look as good as when I fitted them many years ago. Tightened the panhard rod bolts again as, although I'd properly torqued them when I refitted it with the new bushes, I could still turn the bolts with a breaker on them. The top steering UJ is new-ish but the lower is most likely original. I take it a seized or old UJ could cause some of the issues I'm seeing? I've got it out for a drive just now and although it's not that easy to replicate it every time I can still feel a bit of a rattle through the steering when I go over a pothole or bump

tottot · 2025-06-01T08:09:08+0100

Having a partially seized UJ in the steering results in a knotchy feel when you turn the steering, bit scary when it starts when driving at speed.[ I know that]
The force to move the swivel [ in my old manual a fishing scale is used pulling on the hole where the track rod goes] is noted as 12lbf [ no seal ] Having done the job many times I just do by experienced feel now with seal fitted.
As @Anaconda notes above did you check steering box drop arm, its joint, for any side to side back and fore movement and being just loose on the shaft?
I gave up on polly bush in panhard rod as just wore to quick and went back to original type bush.

Dippypud · 2025-06-01T08:21:57+0100

Anaconda said:
Did you renew the bolts with the bushes? I ask because I changed the panard rod bushes, made no difference until I changed the bolts.
Steering damper, Steering box drop arm?

Bolts can wear so that a 'step' gives more flex than needed/recommended in the bush ...

the_wolf · 2025-06-01T10:38:05+0100

Dippypud said:
Bolts can wear so that a 'step' gives more flex than needed/recommended in the bush ...

Its new bolts

the_wolf · 2025-06-01T10:39:23+0100

tottot said:
Having a partially seized UJ in the steering results in a knotchy feel when you turn the steering, bit scary when it starts when driving at speed.[ I know that]
The force to move the swivel [ in my old manual a fishing scale is used pulling on the hole where the track rod goes] is noted as 12lbf [ no seal ] Having done the job many times I just do by experienced feel now with seal fitted.
As @Anaconda notes above did you check steering box drop arm, its joint, for any side to side back and fore movement and being just loose on the shaft?
I gave up on polly bush in panhard rod as just wore to quick and went back to original type bush.

I'm happy doing it by feel and the steering has always been great with even the slightest movement of the steering wheel transferring to the wheels so I'm confident there's no slack there. I did check the drop arm but can't see any issues. I found this thread which sounds very similar, it not quite as bad

Bump steer

Ok most likely not quite the correct technical term but since it happens when I hit a bump that is what I'm going to call it. I have some play in the steering somewhere when I hit a bump/pothole mainly on the passenger front, mind you that could be because most potholes are on the passenger...

www.landyzone.co.uk

miktdish · 2025-06-01T10:48:17+0100

Have you got a ramp ?
Can you get the wheels unweighted and feel/see if anything is loose ?

Death wobble and swivel pin preload.

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