Bio Diesel

Having tried long and hard to get a definitive answer over using Bio Diesel in TD5 engines I thought I would post my findings as it may be useful to others.

Land Rover state in the owner’s manual of the Defender (probably the same in the Freelander & Discovery) do not use Bio Diesel in this vehicle. I have spoken to several people who make their own BD and they say that LR say this to protect themselves from poorly made fuel or stuff with a high water content.

In order to try and get a real view on this I spoke to Mark Sear at UK Fuels who make BD Processors. Very interesting, and I hope this is useful to all.


[FONT=&quot]There are three existing specification standards for diesel & Biodiesel fuels (EN590, DIN 51606 & EN14214).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]EN590 (actually EN590:2000) describes the physical properties that all diesel fuel must meet if it is to be sold in the EU, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Czech[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Republic[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Iceland[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Norway[/FONT][FONT=&quot] or [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Switzerland[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. It allows the blending of up to 5% Biodiesel with 'normal' DERV - a 95/5 mix. In some countries such as [/FONT][FONT=&quot]France[/FONT][FONT=&quot], all diesel sold routinely contains this 95/5 mix.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]DIN 51606 is a German standard for Biodiesel, is considered to be the highest standard currently existing, and is regarded by almost all vehicle manufacturers as evidence of compliance with the strictest standards for diesel fuels. The vast majority of Biodiesel produced commercially meets or exceeds this standard.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]EN14214 EN14214 is the standard for biodiesel now having recently been finalized by the European Standards organisation CEN. It is broadly based on DIN 51606.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Mark Sear [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]W: 01908.766124 ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]Milton Keynes[/FONT][FONT=&quot] office) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]M: 07904.716985 [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For a better way to fuel your vehicle: http://www.UKFuelTech.com [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]-----Original Message-----[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From: Matthew Turner [mailto:[email protected]] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sent: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]30 December 2005[/FONT][FONT=&quot]11:55[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To: [email protected][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Subject: RE: UKFUELTECH: WEBSITE[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Hi Mark,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Many thanks for your response, very interesting. I also noted in my Defender handbook a line that says 'only use fuel to EN 590' what is EN 590 and how does it compare to EN 14214? I will be in touch in the New Year regarding further details as I intend to start producing my own fuel for myself and a number of friends who also have expressed an interest in Bio Diesel. Your equipment looks ideal for our application and sized about right for us.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year to you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Kind Regards [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Matthew Turner[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Consultant[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Turner Broadcast Consultants Ltd[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]-----Original Message-----[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sent: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Thursday, December 22, 2005[/FONT][FONT=&quot]8:11 PM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To: [email protected][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Subject: RE: UKFUELTECH: WEBSITE[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Apologies for the delay in answering. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There are a couple of points here.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1. Land Rover[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Interesting they say their engines will not work with bio. Their business will then of course be bankrupt over the next 5 years as bio will be mandatory in every litre delivered in the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]UK[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. No wonder the Germans didn't want it - with 2000 bio only diesel stations there it must have been hard to sell them. I suspect what the mean is "MAKE SURE THE FUEL YOU USE COMPLIES WITH EN 14214". That is to say excellent quality fuel, not something just knocked up in a homebrew kit.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2. CR systems[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I've never heard of any issues with QUALITY fuel. There is no doubt that using rubbish fuel in a technical piece of kit will harm it. Water in particular is dangerous, which is why we "dry wash" our biodiesel with Magnesol (www.magnesol.co.uk).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The bottom line for me is quality. Bad biodiesel is like bad anything really - it does damage. That is why our reactors are made of stainless steel and work at high temperatures with no water washing. This process means our clients are capable of making and delivering very high quality fuel. I can't speak for other companies, but our focus is on saftey, complying with regulations and high quality fuel.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I hope this helps - feel free to ask for more help if you need it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark Sear[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]W: 01908.766124 ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]Milton Keynes[/FONT][FONT=&quot] office)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]M: 07904.716985 [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For a better way to fuel your vehicle: http://www.UKFuelTech.com [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]-----Original Message-----[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sent: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 December 2005[/FONT][FONT=&quot]12:45[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To: [email protected][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Subject: UKFUELTECH: WEBSITE[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]****************************************************************************[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]***[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]first_name: Matthew[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]last_name: Turner[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]address1: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]34 High Street[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]address2: Dilton Marsh[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]address3: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]country: Wiltshire[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]telephone: 01373 823223[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]email: [email protected][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]B1: Send[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Date: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 December 2005[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Time: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]12:47[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]comments:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I have read a lot about Biodiesel and am keen to start making and using it myself. The one question I have regards common rail diesel engines. Some people have told me that you can use Bio in CR diesels other say there is a very high risk of engine damage. I have a new Land Rover TD5 Defender that I would like to run on BD. Land Rover say its not suitable for BD and using it will wreck the engine, and I know of one person who has done just this although they made no mention of the source of the fuel or if they made it or bought it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Do you have any experience of CR diesels running on BD and particularly the TD5 engine? I know most manufacturers are moving over to CR type engines so if it works for one it should work for all.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Many Thanks[/FONT]

OK Guys & Girls,

Here we go, too much time in the trenches...time to go over the top I guess.
I have ordered a bio diesel making machine! Yes I know longevity is probably down to quality.. i.e remove all methanol and get rid of the water as much as possible...can we do this at home? I don't know but I am going to try now, particularly as diesel is over £1 per litre... I have bought a spare cylinder head with injectors for £150 incase it all turns S*** shaped.

If you want to know how I get on or indeed anything related give me a shout in a couple of months, as the lead time is a month on the machine.

RR

Hello

Only one thing to ask you Rabbit Rover ~

Have you let Gordon Brown know of your bio diesel plant ??????

If not then nows the time to make his office aware !!!!!!!

Well~ either that or my fees start at £120ph and i will defend you on the charges !!!!!!

BEWARE !!!!!!!

TD4/5 engines Polamerise(sp) Bio diesel and effectivly ruin the injectors over about 10,000 miles.

It's not the quality, but the oil type that causes a problem. As I understand a little of the Biocide used will assist, this can be a cheap addtive or a tiny amount of Petrol (2-5%) but personaly I would use the 'proper' Biocide

BioDiesel will work fine in essentialy any diesel engine, that includes all the LR engines.

A friend of mine uses a lot of bio diesel in machinery, tractors off road LR's etc... I infact made the refinary to make it, and have personaly used it and made over 4000litres.

The 2.5N/A & TD, 200/300TDI's, and the TD5 are all engines I will personaly say it works no problem in, and this is long term.

All fuel that comes from Grangemouth has bio diesel in it, a plant less than 30miles away makes thousands of gallons of it a day, which all ends up in the diesel tanks at Grangemouth.

Bio diesel can attack aluminium as it eats aluminium oxide however if there is no methanol left at the end of the reaction this will not happen, as you are simply left with veg oil molecules split in half - why the oil becomes thinner after being made into bio diesel.

Any aluminium left in the open air will oxidise hence why it doesn't stay shiney. There is aluminium in certain IP's I can say for definate that the Lucas CAV on my 15J has. However this is not a problem as the aluminium will always be imersed in fuel (hence no oxygen to oxidise), but you need to make sure you have good airtight fuel lines, even a slight leak, that would be left as OK, could technicaly let enough air to get in and cause oxidisation, which when the next lot of pootly made bio diesel comes through will get eaten, so eventully a damaged IP.

This is also the same for engines with aluminium heads etc, but again, if there is no left over methanol there is not a problem.

Above it was mentioned about a new head and injectors... Properly made bio diesel will cause no damage to the injectors or head.

The TD5 will actully run quite well on most things a diesel can be run on. Recently we made up fuel with kero and gear oil, which the TD5 runs on brilliantly.

There is a diesel algae which will live in standard diesel but loves bio diesel evern better, so if you have this problem then some biocide stuff will be needed.

I think people get too paranoid about bio diesel, its a oil, it burns, throw it in with road diesel if your concerned about it quality.

Or save all the trouble, mess and hassle and buy it.