Best 4x4 for African travel?

Hi there,

My fiancee's parents will be relocating to Morocco (Rabat) soon. This
is obviously very exciting for me as it provides me (us) with a base
for exploring all the West Africa region.

I would expect them to buy one 4x4, and I'd like to believe I'd have a
pretty good say in what to buy (but of course, the final decision
would be theirs)... Consider these factors:

- The 4x4 would primarily be used in day-to-day tasks by her mom,
therefore a "manly" car like a Defender is probably out of the
question.
- The car would be mainly used in arid/semi-arid climates (Mauritania,
Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso...)
- The car would be used for long trips (1 month +) where
self-suficiency would be required, therefore adequate storage space
would be a must.
- Carefree maintenance. I'm far from an expert in mechanics, so
breakdowns should be easily fixed by roadside mechanics.

I was drifting quite a bit in favour of the Land Rover Discovery.
Pretty much ruled out the Defender (too rough), Freelander (pretty,
but too soft) and the Range Rover ($$$).
Was also considering the Pajero, any comments on reliability?
Any other models recommended for roughing it out?

One silly question? How often does a 4x4 tire gets a puncture (ie, is
it a very rare occurence?). I'm just asking because I've seen a few
Landies having tubes fitted due to punctures in Namibia. But then
again, we were on a 2x4 and had 6 punctures in 6000kms...

Thanks for your input.

Raf

[email protected] (Raf) wrote:

>One silly question? How often does a 4x4 tire gets a puncture (ie, is
>it a very rare occurence?). I'm just asking because I've seen a few
>Landies having tubes fitted due to punctures in Namibia. But then
>again, we were on a 2x4 and had 6 punctures in 6000kms...

Raf,

I can't comment on the type of car, other than saying that you
probably get what you pay for (i.e. buy Mercedes).

But I can say something about punctures. The main cause of
punctures in east Africa are acacia thorns, and I suspect it's
not much different in other parts of Africa. Tire types are very
different when it comes to thorn resistance. It helps somewhat
to pump them up to a higher pressure, because the thorns often
kill the tires by stinging into the bulging side, rather than
through the main profile surface. By reducing the bulge, you
reduce this particular risk. Of course you get a bumpier ride
that way, but you could reduce the pressure in thorn-free areas
and increase it when you come to areas with bushes and trees.
And, of course, some of the thorns sting right through the
profile and kill the tire anyway.

I hear there is a relatively new type of tire that costs about
twice as much as an ordinary one but is made for third world
countries and should be a lot more thorn-resistant. If anybody
has more information, I'd also be curious, but look out for
those tires or ask the car dealer to deliver the jeep with them.

There are also thorn-resistant tubes, at least for bicycles. I
don't know anything about them.

In Kenya practically every jeep has tubes retrofitted. As soon
as one gets the first puncture, you also put in a tube. I can't
judge the wisdom of this, but this is how it is. It's easier to
repair a tube, and most car workshops and garages in Kenya can
do it.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

> I hear there is a relatively new type of tire that costs about
> twice as much as an ordinary one but is made for third world
> countries and should be a lot more thorn-resistant. If anybody
> has more information, I'd also be curious, but look out for
> those tires or ask the car dealer to deliver the jeep with them.
>

I don't know anything about tires made specifically for third world
usage, but I can testify to the durability of one specific, which I use
on forklifts that my company runs on very poor terain, with many nails
strewn around.
It is a Michelin, and is called the "XZM" series, you can see it at:

http://www.michelingc.com/na_eng/News/76.html

Probably not what one would want for driving on paved roads, nor at any
sort of higher speeds, but for ultimate durability in the bush I doubt
you would find a more durable tire.

David

David Modine <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

>> I hear there is a relatively new type of tire that costs about
>> twice as much as an ordinary one but is made for third world
>> countries and should be a lot more thorn-resistant. If anybody
>> has more information, I'd also be curious, but look out for
>> those tires or ask the car dealer to deliver the jeep with them.

>I don't know anything about tires made specifically for third world
>usage, but I can testify to the durability of one specific, which I use
>on forklifts that my company runs on very poor terain, with many nails
>strewn around.
>It is a Michelin, and is called the "XZM" series, you can see it at:
>
>http://www.michelingc.com/na_eng/News/76.html
>
>Probably not what one would want for driving on paved roads, nor at any
>sort of higher speeds, but for ultimate durability in the bush I doubt
>you would find a more durable tire.

David,

interesting, but I'm not sure these tires would work well on a
jeep. I was thinking of a tire type made specifically for jeeps
in heavy duty conditions.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
> David,
>
> interesting, but I'm not sure these tires would work well on a
> jeep. I was thinking of a tire type made specifically for jeeps
> in heavy duty conditions.
>
> Hans-Georg
>

Perhaps the michelin XZL would be more appropriate:

http://truckus.webmichelin.com/index_rv.htm

or

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/michelin/indexmain.htm

David Modine <[email protected]> wrote:

>Perhaps the michelin XZL would be more appropriate:
>
>http://truckus.webmichelin.com/index_rv.htm
>
>or
>
>http://www.expeditionexchange.com/michelin/indexmain.htm

David,

thanks for the links! I think though that it would have to be
the XZY, as the jeeps are probably run a lot on paved roads too.
Depends on the application and the place.

I don't know how well these particular tires hold up when facing
acacia thorns, but the features of both XZL and XZY specifically
mention protection against penetration. That's something.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

A suzuki vitara
www.africa4x4.com

)

Raf - In central and Southern Africa you would look at Toyota Landcruiser.
They are expensive, but easy to maintain and very, very reliable. Parts are
more easily available and maintenance cheap. I would not settle for anything
else.
Greetings
Koos

Raf <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi there,
>
> My fiancee's parents will be relocating to Morocco (Rabat) soon. This
> is obviously very exciting for me as it provides me (us) with a base
> for exploring all the West Africa region.
>
> I would expect them to buy one 4x4, and I'd like to believe I'd have a
> pretty good say in what to buy (but of course, the final decision
> would be theirs)... Consider these factors:
>
> - The 4x4 would primarily be used in day-to-day tasks by her mom,
> therefore a "manly" car like a Defender is probably out of the
> question.
> - The car would be mainly used in arid/semi-arid climates (Mauritania,
> Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso...)
> - The car would be used for long trips (1 month +) where
> self-suficiency would be required, therefore adequate storage space
> would be a must.
> - Carefree maintenance. I'm far from an expert in mechanics, so
> breakdowns should be easily fixed by roadside mechanics.
>
> I was drifting quite a bit in favour of the Land Rover Discovery.
> Pretty much ruled out the Defender (too rough), Freelander (pretty,
> but too soft) and the Range Rover ($$$).
> Was also considering the Pajero, any comments on reliability?
> Any other models recommended for roughing it out?
>
> One silly question? How often does a 4x4 tire gets a puncture (ie, is
> it a very rare occurence?). I'm just asking because I've seen a few
> Landies having tubes fitted due to punctures in Namibia. But then
> again, we were on a 2x4 and had 6 punctures in 6000kms...
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Raf

The Toyota Landcruiser is the vehicle of choice for the UN and for
NGOs working in Africa, by quite a long way.

Francis.

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:06:37 GMT, [email protected] (Raf) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> - The 4x4 would primarily be used in day-to-day tasks by her mom,
> therefore a "manly" car like a Defender is probably out of the
> question.

A true 4x4 should be chosen for capability not style. That's
what makes urban SUVs a bit of a joke. (just my opinion...

> - The car would be mainly used in arid/semi-arid climates (Mauritania,
> Senegal, Mali, Burkina Faso...)
> - The car would be used for long trips (1 month +) where
> self-suficiency would be required, therefore adequate storage space
> would be a must.
> - Carefree maintenance. I'm far from an expert in mechanics, so
> breakdowns should be easily fixed by roadside mechanics.

In which case you should see which manufacturers are more popular.
In many parts of Africa the Toyota is king. Some parts Land Rover
is more common. You would probably want something people are more
familiar with and parts are easier to come by.

> I was drifting quite a bit in favour of the Land Rover Discovery.
> Pretty much ruled out the Defender (too rough), Freelander (pretty,
> but too soft) and the Range Rover ($$$).
> Was also considering the Pajero, any comments on reliability?
> Any other models recommended for roughing it out?

The Toyota Land Cruiser was the most common and tough vehicle
for the few places I rented a vehicle and driver. Although
one we rented had a Ford diesel engine transplant.

I never saw anything but the utilitarian 4x4s (ie: Defender)
or Toyota Land Cruiser or other pickups.

Many of the Toyotas we saw had full snorkel for river crossing.

> One silly question? How often does a 4x4 tire gets a puncture (ie, is
> it a very rare occurence?). I'm just asking because I've seen a few
> Landies having tubes fitted due to punctures in Namibia. But then
> again, we were on a 2x4 and had 6 punctures in 6000kms...

On one 200 km trip (Mali) we had about four punctures. Since we had a Toyota
we were able to 'borrow' a wheel and tire from a passing friend of
the driver after our spares were all in use. 100 kms were on
tracks and another 100 kms on paved. The punctures on the track
were from hitting solid objects and acacia thorns. The failures
on pavement were from overheating, probably due to a bad retread.

On another 1600 km trip we had one puncture and two bad patches
of the same puncture. The tires were pretty sad when we started out
and I was told that was the best we could buy (Ethiopia).

On one trip by bicycle I used all of my spare tubes and 10 patches
in a short one hour ride... and still didn't pressure back in the
tire. We had to stop every few minutes and pump back up to get home.
Those thorns are pretty nasty (and hard to avoid).

"Dave Null Sr." <[email protected]> wrote:

>Many of the Toyotas we saw had full snorkel for river crossing.

Dave,

just a small detail. It could be that what you saw was not a
snorkel for river crossing but a snorkel to get the engine air
from a dust-free height.

When the engine is submerged to the level of the normal air
intake, it stops anyway because the ignition is shorted by the
water.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:28:48 GMT, Hans-Georg Michna <hans-
[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "Dave Null Sr." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Many of the Toyotas we saw had full snorkel for river crossing.

> just a small detail. It could be that what you saw was not a
> snorkel for river crossing but a snorkel to get the engine air
> from a dust-free height.

Most of the roads I travelled on, dust free height would
be about 100 m

> When the engine is submerged to the level of the normal air
> intake, it stops anyway because the ignition is shorted by the
> water.

Since they were diesels,
there's no ignition to short. A friend of mine bought a few
of these Toyotas for her organization and told me the snorkel
was for water.

We did a crossing of the Niger without the snorkel. Fortunately
the water was just above the air intake. I have pictures...

"Dave Null Sr." <[email protected]> wrote:

>A friend of mine bought a few
>of these Toyotas for her organization and told me the snorkel
>was for water.

Dave,

I'd be interested in the details. Many of the safari minibusses
and jeeps in Kenya have those raised air intakes, but these are
definitely not for river crossings but to reduce the dust that
gets into the air filter to avoid too frequent clogging.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:27:39 GMT, Hans-Georg Michna <hans-
[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "Dave Null Sr." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>A friend of mine bought a few
>>of these Toyotas for her organization and told me the snorkel
>>was for water.

> I'd be interested in the details. Many of the safari minibusses
> and jeeps in Kenya have those raised air intakes, but these are
> definitely not for river crossings but to reduce the dust that
> gets into the air filter to avoid too frequent clogging.

I can't really help you there. I've lost touch with my friend
a few years ago...

I was told in more than one place and country by different people
that the snorkel was for water. It may have more than one purpose
though, as dust is certainly a big problem. I can't see raising
the intake to just over five feet high on the Land Cruisers
would make a huge dent in the amount of dust inhaled.


http://www.off-road.com/toyota/rockrunner/modifications/snorkel/snorkel.html

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_snorkel_install.htm

http://www.4wdonline.com/wanted.html


> The main reason to fit a snorkel is to keep water (esp' damaging for
> diesels) out of the engine intake on deep water crossings.
> They can also reduce the amount of dust drawn in
> on dirt roads. . .

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 03:06:37 -0700, Raf wrote:

> My fiancee's parents will be relocating to Morocco (Rabat) soon. This is
> obviously very exciting for me as it provides me (us) with a base for
> exploring all the West Africa region.

Parts availability, local know-how and reliability make the Land Cruiser a
winner. Make sure you don't choose a recent version with all the fancy
electronics that the village blacksmith won't know how to handle. The
simpler the better.

> One silly question? How often does a 4x4 tire gets a puncture

Seems pretty random to me. I have sometimes traveled a few thousand
kilometers with not a single puncture, and sometimes changed five tires in
less than 24 hours... It really depends on many parameters including the
road, the tires, driving style, acacia thorns and karma...

"Dave Null Sr." <[email protected]> wrote:

>http://www.off-road.com/toyota/rockrunner/modifications/snorkel/snorkel.html
>
>http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_snorkel_install.htm
>
>http://www.4wdonline.com/wanted.html

>> The main reason to fit a snorkel is to keep water (esp' damaging for
>> diesels) out of the engine intake on deep water crossings.
>> They can also reduce the amount of dust drawn in
>> on dirt roads. . .

Dave,

thanks for the good links! It seems that for diesel engines the
snorkel does indeed have a significant advantage for deep river
crossings. Wouldn't help for petrol engines though because the
water would probably short the ignition.

I wasn't aware of that at all. I usually turn back from much
shallower water crossings because of the high risk to get stuck.
In the areas where I use jeeps (east Africa) I've never seen any
deep river crossings, probably because they would be too muddy
to cross anyway, so you'd certainly get stuck. But I see that a
deep river crossing is possible when the bottom is stony.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:21:10 +0200, Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

> In Kenya practically every jeep has tubes retrofitted. As soon as one
> gets the first puncture, you also put in a tube. I can't judge the
> wisdom of this, but this is how it is. It's easier to repair a tube, and
> most car workshops and garages in Kenya can

Some input from Chris Scott on that subject (from
http://www.sahara-overland.com/updates/part2.htm) :

"Traditionally it has always been assumed that off-roading at low tyre
pressures requires tubed tyres. The sealed air chamber inside the tyre can
be run at the very low pressures desirable for soft sand without the
perceived risk of sudden air loss. Heat generated by friction between the
tube rubbing against the inside of the flexing tyre has always been a
limiting factor, which is one reason why XSs and the like are limited to
20kph at absolute minimum pressures. Furthermore, it has been thought that
the ease of repairing or fitting new tubes is essential on the piste, when
compared to tubeless tyres, but short of an utterly destroyed sidewall,
this is not the case.

The range of desirable high-profile road-pattern tyres may be slim and a
tubeless 750 XS is never likely to be made, but for example a 235 85 R16
tubeless has exactly the same dimensions and the tread works just fine in
the dunes while feeling much safer on wet roads. There is also a perceived
risk of a tubeless tyre pulling off the rim with sudden air loss when
cornering hard at very low pressures. This has proved unfounded in my
experience, although I've heard of momentary losses of air reducing the
pressure a little as the bead gets pulled over - something that is easily
fixed by pumping up. More problematical is a dented rim loosing the air
seal &endash; worse on alloy rims which cannot be bashed back into shape
so easily as steel rims. This I have experienced, but in that case the
dented rims were the least of the problems - the car was all but
destroyed. And finally, there is little chance of finding an exact
replacement in the Sahara except from another tourist. Therefor, two
complete spare wheels are better than just two spare tyres - a precaution
that many drivers practise anyway. Also, a part-time 4WD can run
wrong-sized tyres in 2WD if necessary and the locally available 750s
exactly match the tubeless size mentioned above.

In the last few years a trend has developed among experienced European
desert drivers to use tubeless BF Goodrich ATs in the Sahara. The
rationale is that at ultra-low pressures when tyres can slip around the
rim in high torque/high traction situations, the valve of a tubed tyre
would get ripped out (a problem common with motorbikes in the same
situation &endash; see p.190). A tubeless tyre can slip harmlessly around
a rim while still maintaining an air seal (some polishing and hardening of
the bead will eventually occur, reducing the air seal &endash; roughening
and softening the bead is the solution). The risk of the tyre pulling off
the rim at low pressures has proved to be minimal with careful driving
through sharp bends and cooler operating temperatures without tube
friction is always desirable.

The biggest problem is thought to be with punctures or if the tyre does
come off the rim. Tubeless rims have a lip to help locate the tyre's bead
on the outer edge of the rim. Breaking the bead to change a tyre can be
done with the techniques described on p.174, and remounting &endash;
getting the bead back over the lip &endash; can be done with the aid of a
16" bicycle tube. http://www.sahara-overland.com/updates/repair.htm

Puncture repairs in the tread of a tubeless tyre are easy &endash; you
just ram a gluey plug into the hole with the right tool, pull it half out
and snip off the excess. However, even minor sidewall damage (less of a
problem with thick walled AT tyres than with vulnerable XSs) would require
vulcanisation where a tubed tyre might be successfully patched on the
inside.

While the use of tubeless tyres in the Sahara may still be considered
unconventional and is largely unknown to locals, in the last couple of
years increasing numbers of drivers have proved that their supposed
limitations in the desert are unfounded - indeed tubeless tyres hold
significant advantages and if you are unsure or have a dented rim, fitting
a tube will get you home."

Thanks to all those who responded; I guess I'll be more inclined
towards the Landcruiser following your positive comments and those on
Chris Scott's Sahara Overland.

The negotiations will be hard though as my fiancee's mom is very
inclined towards a Mercedes M-Class or the BMW X-5: I'm trying hard to
explain that although they look very nice they're not very useful in
the desert (plus they are very ostensive). She thinks that the
Landcruiser is too big for her... I'm currently trying to reach a
compromise with the Mercedes G-Class which is very much praised in
Chris Scott's book and not as expensive as I first thought (except for
the AMG model).

Raf

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
> David Modine <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps the michelin XZL would be more appropriate:
>>
>> http://truckus.webmichelin.com/index_rv.htm
>>
>> or
>>
>> http://www.expeditionexchange.com/michelin/indexmain.htm
>
> David,
>
> thanks for the links! I think though that it would have to be
> the XZY, as the jeeps are probably run a lot on paved roads too.
> Depends on the application and the place.
>
> I don't know how well these particular tires hold up when facing
> acacia thorns, but the features of both XZL and XZY specifically
> mention protection against penetration. That's something.
>
> Hans-Georg

All the people I know who do africa swear by the XZY - it's really a truck
tyre available in a Land Rover size and it's 12ply I think - also lasts
100,000 miles!

--
Julian.
----------
General Melchett from Blackadder describing
his regiments coat of arms:
". . . .two dead Frenchmen atop a pile
of dead Frenchmen. . . . ."

Raf wrote:
> Thanks to all those who responded; I guess I'll be more inclined
> towards the Landcruiser following your positive comments and those on
> Chris Scott's Sahara Overland.
>
> The negotiations will be hard though as my fiancee's mom is very
> inclined towards a Mercedes M-Class or the BMW X-5: I'm trying hard to
> explain that although they look very nice they're not very useful in
> the desert (plus they are very ostensive). She thinks that the
> Landcruiser is too big for her... I'm currently trying to reach a
> compromise with the Mercedes G-Class which is very much praised in
> Chris Scott's book and not as expensive as I first thought (except for
> the AMG model).
>
> Raf

Have a look on here:

http://www.africa-overland.net

Mainly Series/Defender Land Rovers and a few old shape Toyotas.

Getting a G-Wagen fixed or finding parts for it in most of Africa is not
easy.

You might want to get her to try a decent Defender before dismissing them -
recent ones have light clutches, light power steering and soft long travel
suspension. It is also very easy to get them fitted with an auto box if
needed. They are not as reliable as Toyotas, but simpler to fix which is
often more important in the middle of nowhere.

I'd rather be a little less comfortable in Africa but be sure of getting
home. . . . . .

--
Julian.
----------
General Melchett from Blackadder describing
his regiments coat of arms:
". . . .two dead Frenchmen atop a pile
of dead Frenchmen. . . . ."