Air Spring experiences

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D

David Thomas

Guest
I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).

I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.

Thanks!

David
 

"David Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>
> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>
> Thanks!
>
> David

Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
notdepress the springs overmuch.

You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.

rhys


 
"rnf2" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "David Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> > level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
> > mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> > over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> > rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
> >
> > I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
> > brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > David
>
> Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
> should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
> able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
> notdepress the springs overmuch.
>
> You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
> one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>
> rhys

The 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camping trailer grosses at about 2000
lb (910 Kg) and has a optimal tongue weight of about 10 to 15% (200 to
250 lb or 90 to 114 Kg). Changing the tongue weight either direction
outside this optimal range (I'm told) can cause trailer sway problems.
Even without the trailer (i.e. just loaded for tent camping) this
4Runner squats noticably even though it has the original towing
package (heavier coil spirings on the rear is one item in this
package).

David
 
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>:|
>:|"David Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
>:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
>:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
>:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
>:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>:|>
>:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
>:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>:|>
>:|> Thanks!
>:|>
>:|> David
>:|
>:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
>:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
>:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
>:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
>:|
>:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
>:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>:|
>:|rhys
>:|


I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
more weight on their tongues.

-Bret
 

"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >:|
> >:|"David Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >:|news:[email protected]...
> >:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> >:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper.
I'm
> >:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> >:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> >:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
> >:|>
> >:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs.
What
> >:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
> >:|>
> >:|> Thanks!
> >:|>
> >:|> David
> >:|
> >:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
> >:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should
be
> >:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should
definately
> >:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
> >:|
> >:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift
with
> >:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
> >:|
> >:|rhys
> >:|
>
>
> I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
> the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
> tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
> tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
> more weight on their tongues.
>
> -Bret

Went and had a look at the LSTA site.

"The load supported by the tow coupling should be about 10 percent of the
trailer gross weight (30 - 40kg for the average household trailer). The
trailer draw bar should be level or slightly nose down."

I've never had a problem however towing the trailer over hills, tight
curves, gravel roads and hairpin bends. and it stays square behind the tow
vehicle without sway.

It helps that the trailer has springs made for the weight and has shocls or
dampers. Overly light springs or an undampened trailer would tend to sway a
lot more.

rhys


 
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:16:16 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>:|
>:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|news:p[email protected]...
>:|> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
>:|> wrote:
>:|>
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|"David Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> >:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
>:|> >:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper.
>:|I'm
>:|> >:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
>:|> >:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
>:|> >:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs.
>:|What
>:|> >:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> Thanks!
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> David
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
>:|> >:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should
>:|be
>:|> >:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should
>:|definately
>:|> >:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift
>:|with
>:|> >:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|rhys
>:|> >:|
>:|>
>:|>
>:|> I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
>:|> the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
>:|> tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
>:|> tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
>:|> more weight on their tongues.
>:|>
>:|> -Bret
>:|
>:|Went and had a look at the LSTA site.
>:|
>:|"The load supported by the tow coupling should be about 10 percent of the
>:|trailer gross weight (30 - 40kg for the average household trailer). The
>:|trailer draw bar should be level or slightly nose down."
>:|
>:|I've never had a problem however towing the trailer over hills, tight
>:|curves, gravel roads and hairpin bends. and it stays square behind the tow
>:|vehicle without sway.
>:|
>:|It helps that the trailer has springs made for the weight and has shocls or
>:|dampers. Overly light springs or an undampened trailer would tend to sway a
>:|lot more.
>:|
>:|rhys
>:|

I personnally have never seen a trailer with shocks on them. 30-40Kg
is fine for a trailer weighing in at 300-400kg (i.e. the average
household tailer). tongue weight gets real important when you start
talking about short trailers with 4000kg on them (a small skid steer
loader for example). the local rental place LOVES to load them right
up on the tongue of their trailer.... probably 40-50% trailer weight
on the tongue... the trailer tows like crap... when I load the trailer
with the loader more on the wheels it tows soooooooo much better.

-Bret
 

"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote


> >:|
> >:|Went and had a look at the LSTA site.
> >:|
> >:|"The load supported by the tow coupling should be about 10 percent of
the
> >:|trailer gross weight (30 - 40kg for the average household trailer). The
> >:|trailer draw bar should be level or slightly nose down."
> >:|
> >:|I've never had a problem however towing the trailer over hills, tight
> >:|curves, gravel roads and hairpin bends. and it stays square behind the
tow
> >:|vehicle without sway.
> >:|
> >:|It helps that the trailer has springs made for the weight and has
shocls or
> >:|dampers. Overly light springs or an undampened trailer would tend to
sway a
> >:|lot more.
> >:|
> >:|rhys
> >:|
>
> I personnally have never seen a trailer with shocks on them. 30-40Kg
> is fine for a trailer weighing in at 300-400kg (i.e. the average
> household tailer). tongue weight gets real important when you start
> talking about short trailers with 4000kg on them (a small skid steer
> loader for example). the local rental place LOVES to load them right
> up on the tongue of their trailer.... probably 40-50% trailer weight
> on the tongue... the trailer tows like crap... when I load the trailer
> with the loader more on the wheels it tows soooooooo much better.
>
> -Bret

The local garage here builds their own design of trailer, made of 6mm thick
box section and I girder steel, with leaf springs off 1 ton or 2 ton light
trucks and shocks.

And they go up from there. 4000Kg skid steer? they built the car trailer
they haul a 6500Kg tractor with FEL and tray themselves.

Our small household trailer was re-done by them with Bedford van springs
when we shifted out to the farm, and rather than towning light loads of
branches to the city dump we started hauling heavy loads of gravel. they
reinforced it majorly but we still often borrow the neighbours shocked
trailer if we're gonna be hauling real loads of gravel or suchlike.

rhys


 
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:55:32 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
wrote:


>:|
>:|The local garage here builds their own design of trailer, made of 6mm thick
>:|box section and I girder steel, with leaf springs off 1 ton or 2 ton light
>:|trucks and shocks.
>:|
>:|And they go up from there. 4000Kg skid steer? they built the car trailer
>:|they haul a 6500Kg tractor with FEL and tray themselves.
>:|

I don't know if you have them in NZ, but the Bobcat is the most often
used brand name. (kind of like Kleenex for facial tissue). check out
www.bobcat.com the ones I usually use are older models that weigh in
at about 2000kg (743B) and 3000kg (853H). my point was how much
tongue weight will affect the handling of a trailer, esp with short
trailers (under 4 m OAL) the longer the trailer the more forgiving
they are.

-Bret


>:|Our small household trailer was re-done by them with Bedford van springs
>:|when we shifted out to the farm, and rather than towning light loads of
>:|branches to the city dump we started hauling heavy loads of gravel. they
>:|reinforced it majorly but we still often borrow the neighbours shocked
>:|trailer if we're gonna be hauling real loads of gravel or suchlike.
>:|
>:|rhys
>:|


 

"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:55:32 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
> >:|
> >:|The local garage here builds their own design of trailer, made of 6mm
thick
> >:|box section and I girder steel, with leaf springs off 1 ton or 2 ton
light
> >:|trucks and shocks.
> >:|
> >:|And they go up from there. 4000Kg skid steer? they built the car
trailer
> >:|they haul a 6500Kg tractor with FEL and tray themselves.
> >:|
>
> I don't know if you have them in NZ, but the Bobcat is the most often
> used brand name. (kind of like Kleenex for facial tissue). check out
> www.bobcat.com the ones I usually use are older models that weigh in
> at about 2000kg (743B) and 3000kg (853H). my point was how much
> tongue weight will affect the handling of a trailer, esp with short
> trailers (under 4 m OAL) the longer the trailer the more forgiving
> they are.
>
> -Bret
>

I know of bobcats, The Q-mark was actually to express surprise at the
weight, most of th ones round here tend to be about 3 tonners (853H maybe?
don't know the number sorry). Dingos are becoming far more popular now for
household hire and landscaping, they're only about 800 to 900 Kg. they're
small stand-on-top skid steers.

rhys


 
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:20:57 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>:|
>:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>:|news:[email protected]...
>:|> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:55:32 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
>:|> wrote:
>:|>
>:|>
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|The local garage here builds their own design of trailer, made of 6mm
>:|thick
>:|> >:|box section and I girder steel, with leaf springs off 1 ton or 2 ton
>:|light
>:|> >:|trucks and shocks.
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|And they go up from there. 4000Kg skid steer? they built the car
>:|trailer
>:|> >:|they haul a 6500Kg tractor with FEL and tray themselves.
>:|> >:|
>:|>
>:|> I don't know if you have them in NZ, but the Bobcat is the most often
>:|> used brand name. (kind of like Kleenex for facial tissue). check out
>:|> www.bobcat.com the ones I usually use are older models that weigh in
>:|> at about 2000kg (743B) and 3000kg (853H). my point was how much
>:|> tongue weight will affect the handling of a trailer, esp with short
>:|> trailers (under 4 m OAL) the longer the trailer the more forgiving
>:|> they are.
>:|>
>:|> -Bret
>:|>
>:|
>:|I know of bobcats, The Q-mark was actually to express surprise at the
>:|weight, most of th ones round here tend to be about 3 tonners (853H maybe?
>:|don't know the number sorry). Dingos are becoming far more popular now for
>:|household hire and landscaping, they're only about 800 to 900 Kg. they're
>:|small stand-on-top skid steers.
>:|
>:|rhys
>:|

the 9 series actually can get quite large the 980 weighs in at over
14,000lbs! I've never actually seen one, most around here use 743's
or 863's. I can imagine trying to use a stand up loader... a bobcat
beats you up bad enough..

-Bret
 

"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote
> >:|>
> >:|> I don't know if you have them in NZ, but the Bobcat is the most often
> >:|> used brand name. (kind of like Kleenex for facial tissue). check out
> >:|> www.bobcat.com the ones I usually use are older models that weigh in
> >:|> at about 2000kg (743B) and 3000kg (853H). my point was how much
> >:|> tongue weight will affect the handling of a trailer, esp with short
> >:|> trailers (under 4 m OAL) the longer the trailer the more forgiving
> >:|> they are.
> >:|>
> >:|> -Bret
> >:|>
> >:|
> >:|I know of bobcats, The Q-mark was actually to express surprise at the
> >:|weight, most of th ones round here tend to be about 3 tonners (853H
maybe?
> >:|don't know the number sorry). Dingos are becoming far more popular now
for
> >:|household hire and landscaping, they're only about 800 to 900 Kg.
they're
> >:|small stand-on-top skid steers.
> >:|
> >:|rhys
> >:|
>
> the 9 series actually can get quite large the 980 weighs in at over
> 14,000lbs! I've never actually seen one, most around here use 743's
> or 863's. I can imagine trying to use a stand up loader... a bobcat
> beats you up bad enough..
>
> -Bret

Heres some info on the Toro dingos, I can't find the Australian origionals
used here in NZ. If you look closely at some of the pictures the operators
do look a bit higher on some and theres a little red shelf jutting out,
others are walkbehind models.

http://www.rossequip.com/Toro Dingo Compact Utility Loader.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0FZX/3_67/72983637/p1/article.jhtml

usefull little buggers.

rhys


 
I personally owned an Argosy 24' travel trailer that had shocks and
also torsion bar suspension, pulled it for 22 years.

Joe

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:29:10 -0500, Bret Chase <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:16:16 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>:|
>>:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>:|news:p[email protected]...
>>:|> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
>>:|> wrote:
>>:|>
>>:|> >:|
>>:|> >:|"David Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
>>:|> >:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
>>:|> >:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper.
>>:|I'm
>>:|> >:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
>>:|> >:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
>>:|> >:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>>:|> >:|>
>>:|> >:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs.
>>:|What
>>:|> >:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>>:|> >:|>
>>:|> >:|> Thanks!
>>:|> >:|>
>>:|> >:|> David
>>:|> >:|
>>:|> >:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
>>:|> >:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should
>>:|be
>>:|> >:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should
>>:|definately
>>:|> >:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
>>:|> >:|
>>:|> >:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift
>>:|with
>>:|> >:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>>:|> >:|
>>:|> >:|rhys
>>:|> >:|
>>:|>
>>:|>
>>:|> I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
>>:|> the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
>>:|> tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
>>:|> tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
>>:|> more weight on their tongues.
>>:|>
>>:|> -Bret
>>:|
>>:|Went and had a look at the LSTA site.
>>:|
>>:|"The load supported by the tow coupling should be about 10 percent of the
>>:|trailer gross weight (30 - 40kg for the average household trailer). The
>>:|trailer draw bar should be level or slightly nose down."
>>:|
>>:|I've never had a problem however towing the trailer over hills, tight
>>:|curves, gravel roads and hairpin bends. and it stays square behind the tow
>>:|vehicle without sway.
>>:|
>>:|It helps that the trailer has springs made for the weight and has shocls or
>>:|dampers. Overly light springs or an undampened trailer would tend to sway a
>>:|lot more.
>>:|
>>:|rhys
>>:|
>
>I personnally have never seen a trailer with shocks on them. 30-40Kg
>is fine for a trailer weighing in at 300-400kg (i.e. the average
>household tailer). tongue weight gets real important when you start
>talking about short trailers with 4000kg on them (a small skid steer
>loader for example). the local rental place LOVES to load them right
>up on the tongue of their trailer.... probably 40-50% trailer weight
>on the tongue... the trailer tows like crap... when I load the trailer
>with the loader more on the wheels it tows soooooooo much better.
>
>-Bret

 
Get a weight equalizing hitch setup and you can set the height
wherever you want.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:01:42 -0500, Bret Chase <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:55:32 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>
>>:|
>>:|The local garage here builds their own design of trailer, made of 6mm thick
>>:|box section and I girder steel, with leaf springs off 1 ton or 2 ton light
>>:|trucks and shocks.
>>:|
>>:|And they go up from there. 4000Kg skid steer? they built the car trailer
>>:|they haul a 6500Kg tractor with FEL and tray themselves.
>>:|
>
>I don't know if you have them in NZ, but the Bobcat is the most often
>used brand name. (kind of like Kleenex for facial tissue). check out
>www.bobcat.com the ones I usually use are older models that weigh in
>at about 2000kg (743B) and 3000kg (853H). my point was how much
>tongue weight will affect the handling of a trailer, esp with short
>trailers (under 4 m OAL) the longer the trailer the more forgiving
>they are.
>
>-Bret
>
>
>>:|Our small household trailer was re-done by them with Bedford van springs
>>:|when we shifted out to the farm, and rather than towning light loads of
>>:|branches to the city dump we started hauling heavy loads of gravel. they
>>:|reinforced it majorly but we still often borrow the neighbours shocked
>>:|trailer if we're gonna be hauling real loads of gravel or suchlike.
>>:|
>>:|rhys
>>:|
>

 
I currently have air bags in the front coils of my Bronco. They don't
rub against the coils, what they do is "settle in" and stay in one spot
and flex with the coils. Just don't get a torch (or spark from said
"tool") near an air bag or you'll be replacing them prematurely. -PapaRick

----------------------------------------------------------------------


>>
>>>:|
>>>:|"Bret Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>:|news:p[email protected]...
>>>:|> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]>
>>>:|> wrote:
>>>:|>
>>>:|> >:|
>>>:|> >:|"David Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>:|> >:|news:[email protected]...
>>>:|> >:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
>>>:|> >:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper.
>>>:|I'm
>>>:|> >:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
>>>:|> >:|> over time.



PapaRick [email protected] /(Home) <or> [email protected] /(Work)
1990 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme International (w/3.1L)
1993 Bronco 351EFI E4OD/BW1356 D44-Ford8.8/open 2"-lift 35"-tires

 
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