Air intake mods? Which one?

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J

james

Guest
Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
opinion on the following:
1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
an air intake device?
2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
"vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
in increasiing my MPG but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=2467691696
or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
similar design? Any input?
3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
for my gas? I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
prices.

Thanks alot,
James
 


james wrote:
> Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
> It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
> Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
> opinion on the following:
> 1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
> an air intake device?

The "chips" etc. sold on ebay don't work. Generally they're just resistors
which fool the ECU into running a slightly wrong mixture.

> 2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
> "vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
> in increasiing my MPG but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
> a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
> one
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item
=2467691696
> or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
> similar design? Any input?

They don't work either. A K&N or similar performance panel filter (ie, fits
in your standard airbox) might help, but a new OEM (ie Chrysler/Jeep) filter
might be just as good.

> 3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
> for my gas? I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
> prices.

Drive slower, swap your wheels for ones with more aerodynamic trims / fit
lower rolling resistance tyres (either special tyres or just narrower),
check your tyre pressures are correct, fit an aerodynamic underbody. Keep a
longer stopping distance between you and the car in front so that you have
to brake and acellerate less.


 
james wrote:

>Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
>It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
>Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
>opinion on the following:
>1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
>an air intake device?
>
Yes. But these "performance modules" are usually just a resistor
to change the way the computer reads a particular sensor, and adjust
fuel curves based on that. Most of them will add extra fuel, thinking
more fuel = more power. But it will certainly cost you in the mileage area.

>2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
>"vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
>in increasiing my MPG but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
>a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
>one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=2467691696
>or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
>similar design? Any input?
>
A more free flowing intake track can often provide additional
power. Depending. But that's usually at higher engine speeds. And it
won't change your mileage enough to matter.

>3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
>for my gas? I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
>prices.
>
>
There are lots of ways. First off, consider trading in your vehicle
for something else. Jeeps have never been known for efficiency.
Second, what kind of tires do you have? Wide off road tires really
create a lot of drag. Lastly, adjust your driving habits and style -
it's a free upgrade.

--
..boB
97 H-D FXDWG - Turbocharged!!
01 Dakota Quad Sport, 5.9/Auto/4x4
83 GMC Jimmy (beater)
66 427SC Cobra Replica - Project
66 Mustang coupe - Daily Driver



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if you look into the intake tube you will find that tornado device if it's a early build
a k&n intake system is a big help as is a complete tune and a good front end alignment
if you have full time 4 wheel drive thats hurting your milage but there is not much you can do
for that
oh yea one big thing slow down
james wrote:

> Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
> It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
> Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
> opinion on the following:
> 1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
> an air intake device?
> 2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
> "vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
> in increasiing my MPG but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
> a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
> one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=2467691696
> or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
> similar design? Any input?
> 3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
> for my gas? I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
> prices.
>
> Thanks alot,
> James

 
K/N filter does not help your fuel consumption nor improve Hp either. I
have K/N just for re-use purpose only. Perhaps tires
Jeep has always known for hard on gas. So there is not much you can do.

"Doki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> james wrote:
> > Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
> > It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
> > Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
> > opinion on the following:
> > 1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
> > an air intake device?
>
> The "chips" etc. sold on ebay don't work. Generally they're just resistors
> which fool the ECU into running a slightly wrong mixture.
>
> > 2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
> > "vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
> > in increasiing my MPG but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
> > a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
> > one
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item
> =2467691696
> > or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
> > similar design? Any input?
>
> They don't work either. A K&N or similar performance panel filter (ie,
fits
> in your standard airbox) might help, but a new OEM (ie Chrysler/Jeep)
filter
> might be just as good.
>
> > 3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
> > for my gas? I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
> > prices.
>
> Drive slower, swap your wheels for ones with more aerodynamic trims / fit
> lower rolling resistance tyres (either special tyres or just narrower),
> check your tyre pressures are correct, fit an aerodynamic underbody. Keep
a
> longer stopping distance between you and the car in front so that you have
> to brake and acellerate less.
>
>


 
james wrote:
> Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
> It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
> Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
> opinion on the following:
> 1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
> an air intake device?

AVOID the "performance modules".

> 2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
> "vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
> in increasiing my MPG

Er ?

These devices are designed to give you MORE power.
If you've got more power, then you're using more fuel to get it !

> but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
> a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
> one
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=2467691696
> or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
> similar design? Any input?

If it does what it's supposed to do, it'll let more air into your engine, so
your Engine Management will inject more fuel, and you'll go faster. Quite
obviously this is not going to improve your fuel economy.

If it does NOT do what it's supposed to do, it'll let the same air into your
engine, so your Engine Management will inject the same amount of fuel, and
you'll go at the same speed. Quite obviously this is not going to improve
your fuel economy.

> 3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
> for my gas?

Use your head. Performance-mods are quite obviously not going to increase
your fuel economy !!!!

> I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
> prices.

So why are you driving a stupid great Jeep then ?!?!?!?

Is this actually a serious post ?


 

"james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> 3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
> for my gas? I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
> prices.
>

If there were the automakers would have already have them in use.

Ted


 
In rec.autos.makers.chrysler james <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm not reading the rest of the thread because this kind of questions
always end in religious wars between people.

My experience with a '91 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 and a 1997 Dodge Stratus 2.5
are that in order to get better mileage you can
- replace the muffler for a better one (absorption). This doesn't have to
be one that makes more sound. A good exhaust shop will give you the one
with the sound you like/want/need/whatever.
- replace the airfilter with a K&N or likewise.
- stay away from whirls in your intake
- only do chipmodding if you want to have more power and don't mind the
worse mileage.

My Jeep Cherokee had a 15% better mileage afterwards. My Stratus does 8%
better (which is still 50% better than the Jeep anyway).
The muffler is your first bottleneck for the 4.0 and 5.2. The 'only' reason
the 5.9 has more then 5.9/5.2 better performance is because the muffler
was also replaced in the factory.
The muffler/intake swap will work on cars if both are bottlenecks. Of your
cat is the bottleneck replacing the muffler won't help a bit.

What you want is to mod/tune your car in order to get rid of bottlenecks
as they cost you fuel. Chiptuning or turbo'superchargers are to get more
performance not-matter-what.
Chiptuning does work on small european turbodiesels. But that is because
a dieselengine sucks and needs to be tuned anyway.

Just my 2 eurocents (over 20% better than yours)
Martin




> Thanks alot,
> James
 


Paul_N wrote:
> K/N filter does not help your fuel consumption nor improve Hp either.
> I have K/N just for re-use purpose only. Perhaps tires
> Jeep has always known for hard on gas. So there is not much you can
> do.

If a K&N filter is any more efficient you should get a bit more torque and
thus be able to change up sooner. But I agree that it's likely that there's
very little to no difference in performance from a new OEM filter.


 

"Nom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> james wrote:
> > Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
> > It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
> > Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
> > opinion on the following:
> > 1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
> > an air intake device?
>
> AVOID the "performance modules".
>
> > 2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
> > "vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
> > in increasiing my MPG
>
> Er ?
>
> These devices are designed to give you MORE power.
> If you've got more power, then you're using more fuel to get it !
>
> > but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
> > a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
> > one
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=2467691696
> > or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
> > similar design? Any input?
>
> If it does what it's supposed to do, it'll let more air into your engine,
so
> your Engine Management will inject more fuel, and you'll go faster. Quite
> obviously this is not going to improve your fuel economy.
>
> If it does NOT do what it's supposed to do, it'll let the same air into
your
> engine, so your Engine Management will inject the same amount of fuel, and
> you'll go at the same speed. Quite obviously this is not going to improve
> your fuel economy.

Performance mods can increase your fuel economy.. If the engine can use
what it has more efficiently, then you'll get better gas mileage. In other
words, if you can get more power out of the same amount of fuel, then you're
likely to get better gas mileage. I figure a muffler swap could do this. A
more free flowing exhaust can give you better gas mileage.

Of course, I have to agree with you that he shouldn't be driving a Jeep if
he wants gas mileage.

-Bruce


 
One problem with all of this:

If you are running a fuel injected, computer controlled
engine, the ONLY way to get better mileage or power is to
modify the computers to be compatable with your modification.

Any modifications that you make won't do a bit of good
unless it is so significant as to override the engine's
ability to compensate. (then you have other problems)

On an old Chevy with a pair of Weber carbs - sure -
completely different story.

 
"Nom" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> james wrote:
> > Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
> > It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
> > Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
> > opinion on the following:
> > 1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
> > an air intake device?
>
> AVOID the "performance modules".
>
> > 2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
> > "vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
> > in increasiing my MPG
>
> Er ?
>
> These devices are designed to give you MORE power.
> If you've got more power, then you're using more fuel to get it !
>
> > but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
> > a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
> > one
> >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=2467691696
> > or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
> > similar design? Any input?
>
> If it does what it's supposed to do, it'll let more air into your engine, so
> your Engine Management will inject more fuel, and you'll go faster. Quite
> obviously this is not going to improve your fuel economy.
>
> If it does NOT do what it's supposed to do, it'll let the same air into your
> engine, so your Engine Management will inject the same amount of fuel, and
> you'll go at the same speed. Quite obviously this is not going to improve
> your fuel economy.
>
> > 3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
> > for my gas?
>
> Use your head. Performance-mods are quite obviously not going to increase
> your fuel economy !!!!
>
> > I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
> > prices.
>
> So why are you driving a stupid great Jeep then ?!?!?!?
>
> Is this actually a serious post ?

Hey Nom you dipsh*t...

If you look on any of the websites for any of these air intake mods
youll see claims that they increase your fuel economy. If I knew as
much about cars as you aparently do, than I wouldnt be asking the
question. There are hundreds of things in this world I know about
that you have no clue. Posts like yours make my blood boil. If you
knew everything, then you'd also know how to effectively communicate
with your fellow humans and also how to take your anger out in places
other than an information board. Where would we be if everyone in the
world who knew something worth teaching to others had your attitude.
Also that last crack about my car was uncalled for. You want ME to
get personal you stupid sh*t?

"Use your head?" F-YOU

Not to mention the fact that if you search for air intake mods many
people will say that they increase MPG so its not like I was pulling
that out of thin air, it's at least a relatively popular opinion, so
I'm not that dumb.

Thanks for everyone else's replies. I think I am going to just leave
it as it is and not fix it if it isnt broken. I get 13.5 mpg city
which as I understand isnt that bad. I started poking around on ebay
and saw this stuff and my brain started going, especially with these
gas prices.
Thanks alot,

James

PS-Nom let me know if you want skiing, fishing, kayaking, windsurfing,
history, science lessons... Guarantee you dont know squat about at
least one if any.
 

"james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Nom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> > So why are you driving a stupid great Jeep then ?!?!?!?
> >
> > Is this actually a serious post ?
>
> Hey Nom you dipsh*t...
>
> If you look on any of the websites for any of these air intake mods
> youll see claims that they increase your fuel economy. If I knew as
> much about cars as you aparently do, than I wouldnt be asking the
> question. There are hundreds of things in this world I know about
> that you have no clue. Posts like yours make my blood boil. If you
> knew everything, then you'd also know how to effectively communicate
> with your fellow humans and also how to take your anger out in places
> other than an information board. Where would we be if everyone in the
> world who knew something worth teaching to others had your attitude.
> Also that last crack about my car was uncalled for. You want ME to
> get personal you stupid sh*t?

Lets face it, anyone who's worried about mpg and drives a Jeep is a few
sperm short of a bollock.

> Thanks for everyone else's replies. I think I am going to just leave
> it as it is and not fix it if it isnt broken. I get 13.5 mpg city
> which as I understand isnt that bad. I started poking around on ebay
> and saw this stuff and my brain started going, especially with these
> gas prices.

Modern cars can be a right bastard to do much to, engine wise. Sensors
everywhere for everything. I can free plenty of power out my cars by
reducing pumping losses from the intake and exhaust systems, but mainly
because I can also adjust the timing and mixture to suit. Replacing your air
filter will only result in the engine management adding more fuel - You
might free a small amount of power and so gain a fraction on your mpg, but I
would imagine it would be quite negligeable. Then again, I tend to steer
clear of anything that needs a computer to simply turn over...

> PS-Nom let me know if you want skiing, fishing, kayaking, windsurfing,
> history, science lessons... Guarantee you dont know squat about at
> least one if any.

Coming from someone on AOL, who is almost certainly American, and is posting
to a UK car group about a wallowy yank tank, I hope you've got a modicum of
proof to back yourself up ;)


 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Nom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > james wrote:
> > > Question for all you auto buffs. Ive got a 95 Jeep grand cherokee.
> > > It has come to my attention that it might be possible to increase Fuel
> > > Economy by adding one of these mods from ebay. Can you give me your
> > > opinion on the following:
> > > 1) can you use one of these "performance modules" in conjunction with
> > > an air intake device?
> >
> > AVOID the "performance modules".
> >
> > > 2)There are a bunch of K&N air intakes, Imitation K&N intakes, this
> > > "vortex" device, this "tornado" device among others. I am interested
> > > in increasiing my MPG
> >
> > Er ?
> >
> > These devices are designed to give you MORE power.
> > If you've got more power, then you're using more fuel to get it !
> >
> > > but not interested in paying upwards of 150 for
> > > a K&N. Can anyone recommend one of the imitation ones such as this
> > > one
> > >
> >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=2467691696
> > > or the vortex which are both considerably less, but seem to have a
> > > similar design? Any input?
> >
> > If it does what it's supposed to do, it'll let more air into your engine,
> so
> > your Engine Management will inject more fuel, and you'll go faster. Quite
> > obviously this is not going to improve your fuel economy.
> >
> > If it does NOT do what it's supposed to do, it'll let the same air into
> your
> > engine, so your Engine Management will inject the same amount of fuel, and
> > you'll go at the same speed. Quite obviously this is not going to improve
> > your fuel economy.
>
> Performance mods can increase your fuel economy.. If the engine can use
> what it has more efficiently, then you'll get better gas mileage. In other
> words, if you can get more power out of the same amount of fuel, then you're
> likely to get better gas mileage. I figure a muffler swap could do this. A
> more free flowing exhaust can give you better gas mileage.

A free flowing exhaust gives you less low end torque, thee's no free
lunch.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.
 

> 3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
> for my gas? I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
> prices.
>
> Thanks alot,
> James


Why'd you buy a car like that and then worry about its fuel consumption?


 

> Hey Nom you dipsh*t...
>
> If you look on any of the websites for any of these air intake mods
> youll see claims that they increase your fuel economy. If I knew as
> much about cars as you aparently do, than I wouldnt be asking the
> question. There are hundreds of things in this world I know about
> that you have no clue. Posts like yours make my blood boil. If you
> knew everything, then you'd also know how to effectively communicate
> with your fellow humans and also how to take your anger out in places
> other than an information board. Where would we be if everyone in the
> world who knew something worth teaching to others had your attitude.
> Also that last crack about my car was uncalled for. You want ME to
> get personal you stupid sh*t?
>
> "Use your head?" F-YOU
>
> Not to mention the fact that if you search for air intake mods many
> people will say that they increase MPG so its not like I was pulling
> that out of thin air, it's at least a relatively popular opinion, so
> I'm not that dumb.
>
> Thanks for everyone else's replies. I think I am going to just leave
> it as it is and not fix it if it isnt broken. I get 13.5 mpg city
> which as I understand isnt that bad. I started poking around on ebay
> and saw this stuff and my brain started going, especially with these
> gas prices.
> Thanks alot,
>
> James
>
> PS-Nom let me know if you want skiing, fishing, kayaking, windsurfing,
> history, science lessons... Guarantee you dont know squat about at
> least one if any.



James, you could try posting in a Yank newsgroup and not a UK one. You might
get more sympathy for your idea that you somehow pay a lot for gasoline...


 

"james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> > Is this actually a serious post ?
>
> Hey Nom you dipsh*t...

<snip>

> You want ME to
> get personal you stupid sh*t?
<snip>
> "Use your head?" F-YOU

<snip>

> I'm not that dumb.

<snip>

> PS-Nom let me know if you want skiing, fishing, kayaking, windsurfing,
> history, science lessons... Guarantee you dont know squat about at
> least one if any.

This *IS* some bizarre American Idol spin off, Nom *IS* the new Simon Cowell
(in at least that he said some stuff that is generally true but some big fat
jessies take offence at) and I claim my five pounds.

Douglas

--

I may have over trimmed


 

"Mark W" <s@o> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > 3)Are there any other relatively inexpensive ways to get more milage
> > for my gas? I dont feel like getting stung as badly by these gas
> > prices.
>
>
> Why'd you buy a car like that

He probably got it cheap from someone who was sick of fueling it

>and then worry about its fuel consumption?
>

He's probably cheap. Good chance this is the old penny-wise pound foolish
example.

Ted


 

"Joseph Oberlander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:T8k6c.27605$%[email protected]...
> One problem with all of this:
>
> If you are running a fuel injected, computer controlled
> engine, the ONLY way to get better mileage or power is to
> modify the computers to be compatable with your modification.
>

This isn't strictly accurate. The computer operates in a range as it
is.

For example if he's in a jurisdiction where he's running 10% alcohol in
the fuel he's going to get worse gas mileage than if he's in a jurisdiction
where they aren't spiking the fuel with alcohol. Conceivably if he runs
higher octane his mileage will be better if the engine has a knock sensor
(I don't think his has one) because the computer can advance the timing
for a bit more power.

Of course, the OP really is asking the question "can I get better gas
mileage with the cheapest gas I can find" we have to add that qualifier
in there. ;-)

Ted


 
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