Series 2 1965 restoration, Diesel engine won't start

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youmitegetian

youmitegetian

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Location
evesham
so I'm restoring a 2a, it's stripped down to a rolling chassis with the engine and box in,
I want to make sure the engine runs before removing it (I'm told it hasn't been run for a lot of years)
It has oil and there was lots of red diesel in the tank, (it was used at a banger track)
I've tried to start it, it turns over freely with the starter but it won't start, I've cracked the injectors and am getting diesel through although maybe not enough, as I only want to check it starts I tried easy start,( I know I know, but I will change glowplugs when I get to the engine detailing part of the resto)
But it still won't start, I've never used easy start but thought it didn't need the heater plugs to work or even diesel just to get it to fire but I get nothing. Any thoughts?
 
youmitegetian said:
so I'm restoring a 2a, it's stripped down to a rolling chassis with the engine and box in,
I want to make sure the engine runs before removing it (I'm told it hasn't been run for a lot of years)
It has oil and there was lots of red diesel in the tank, (it was used at a banger track)
I've tried to start it, it turns over freely with the starter but it won't start, I've cracked the injectors and am getting diesel through although maybe not enough, as I only want to check it starts I tried easy start,( I know I know, but I will change glowplugs when I get to the engine detailing part of the resto)
But it still won't start, I've never used easy start but thought it didn't need the heater plugs to work or even diesel just to get it to fire but I get nothing. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
If you are getting nothing - absolutely nothing - not even a chug then I'd do either

1)
Whack on a jump staring power pack if you have one / jump start from a different vehicle (rev higher than 2000rpm) and crank for a while.

Downside - might kill starter if you go for too long

2)
Compression test - see if there's a problem in a "scientific" way

3)
Tow / jump start / launch yourself down a steep hill

Downside - possible crashes! Make sure your brakes work!
 
Glow plugs do help quite a bit - or if you happen to have a block heater fitted (slim chance on a Land Rover I know but I thought I'd check)...
 
I do have a jump pack but maybe not man enough for the job,
I have had the odd chug and smoke from exhaust but nothing that suggests its abut to fire.
Would easy start normally make it attempt to start?
I've heard an old trick of holding a burning rag over the intake while cranking to heat up the chamber but never tried it.
The fuel stop cable is disconnected but the lever is pulled down by the spring which I assume means it's in the run position?
Also is probably old diesel but I've read it doesn't go off like petrol?
But the above shouldn't matter with easy start?
It doesn't turn over quickly enough for me to think it's a compression issue but maybe a tes is in order,
Not sure I'll pull start it, no bulkhead so no steering, definitely a crash, plus no brakes either
 
youmitegetian said:
I do have a jump pack but maybe not man enough for the job,
I have had the odd chug and smoke from exhaust but nothing that suggests its abut to fire.
Would easy start normally make it attempt to start?
I've heard an old trick of holding a burning rag over the intake while cranking to heat up the chamber but never tried it.
The fuel stop cable is disconnected but the lever is pulled down by the spring which I assume means it's in the run position?
Also is probably old diesel but I've read it doesn't go off like petrol?
But the above shouldn't matter with easy start?
It doesn't turn over quickly enough for me to think it's a compression issue but maybe a tes is in order,
Not sure I'll pull start it, no bulkhead so no steering, definitely a crash, plus no brakes either
Click to expand...
If you've had the odd chug then you have probably got compression - I'd forget the compression test for now - have you checked valve clearances? (I assume so)

The easy start when sprayed into the intake should in principle form a nice air + fuel mixture that should indeed make a few chugs. I don't like using this stuff though - it can be a bit hit and miss...

...from what you say it sounds like there is a compression issue in terms of the crank not spinning fast enough. Have you got new engine oil in there yet (I think you were doing that weren't you)? New engine oil helps move things a bit quicker especially if the starter is tired.

As you have no brakes I think you've got little option but to keep on with the jump starting approach - open the "throttle" (yeah yeah incorrect word usage for this type of diesel but you know what I mean) a bit so you are getting enough fuel into the engine when cranking. You need a few chugs to help get going.

If after cranking for a while and it still isn't running - have a good look about for fuel leaks.

Fix that linkage!
 
Can't sort the linkage as no bulkhead but I think it must be in run position cus you pull it up the stop the fuel surely?
Haven't checked valve clearance. To be honest getting the engine running was almost an after thought and hoped it would be straight forward as it had a full tank of fuel so figured someone thought it would be used again soon. Many years ago Probably.
 
youmitegetian said:
Can't sort the linkage as no bulkhead but I think it must be in run position cus you pull it up the stop the fuel surely?
Haven't checked valve clearance. To be honest getting the engine running was almost an after thought and hoped it would be straight forward as it had a full tank of fuel so figured someone thought it would be used again soon. Many years ago Probably.
Click to expand...
I can't remember about the stop position - sorry.

Old diesel can be a problem but usually it is because of water content (more often from bio products that are added to diesel these days) - you should be able to see / feel for water in the filter bowl on the fuel pump. People often mix in a bit of 2 stroke oil (for making 2 stroke petrol) to old diesel to help it get a bit "better" but if the system is full of muck and junk and water you're best off replacing it. (In warmer countries fungus grows in diesel but I assume where you are that's not going to be a problem)

A quick look at the valve clearances might help especially if you've already got slow starting crank speeds
 
Lol no not a problem at all in the Cotswolds. Water everywhere is more an issue.
I think I'll pump clean diesel through and flush out the old red. The sediment bottle looks clean enough but can't hurt to give it all a blast through with clean fresh diesel. I was hoping the easy start would be a cheeky short cut but I should know better.
Not done valve clearances for a lot of years so I'll read up on it and check that. And if none of that works I might just whip the engine out for now so I can concentrate on the welding. I can strip the engine down over time and check the bits that need checking. And it can't be that tricky to bench test an old diesel. It's not like it needs a full loom and ecu to get it going
 
I have an old 2a under slow restoration that starts and drives now and then. However it needs a very good large battery [ I use a tractor batt ] to get it going, any thing less and a few "chugs" is all you get. Glow plugs need to work.These engines do not respond well to easy start.
 
Maybe I'll get some of the modern glow plugs. I think mine are the "in series" type and are most likely ancient and knackered .
When you say doesn't respond well to easy start, do you mean it just doesn't help?
 
When I worked on the buses in Birmingham, we would have the odd one that wouldn't start. We would hold a burning rag near the air intake and it always worked but we had to be very careful that bits of rag didn't get sucked in. I would think that the flame of a blow torch would be a better alternative. I also agree with the comments regarding the need for a good battery or two connected in parallel.

Col
 
Colthebrummie said:
When I worked on the buses in Birmingham, we would have the odd one that wouldn't start. We would hold a burning rag near the air intake and it always worked but we had to be very careful that bits of rag didn't get sucked in. I would think that the flame of a blow torch would be a better alternative. I also agree with the comments regarding the need for a good battery or two connected in parallel.

Col
Click to expand...
There are a few hilarious videos on the toob showing people losing gloves and rags down intakes of run away diesels - I can imagine the same at your local bus depot!
 
[QUOTE="youmitegetian,
When you say doesn't respond well to easy start, do you mean it just doesn't help?[/QUOTE]

I think the easy start promotes early detonation and does not help.
 
Easy start worked with mine whilst waiting for new plugs to arrive.
It sounds like it needs a good long turn over but watch that starter for getting hot.

As a side note it's worth having cast iron proof your trattor legally used red.
I have known mates have a right to do when stopped for a dip test. They also took swabs from the exhaust for past irregularities and one in particular went through hell trying to prove it was a quarry pig for its first 20 years. And that wasn't even road registered when it was on the quarry.
 
Warm the engine block and head with a blow torch and then it over with a big powerful battery.
Use new diesel and filter, bleed new all the way through, it should then go
 
Don't think the red will be an issue. It'll be having a new exhaust anyway and I'll be cleaning out the tank and making sure it doesn't leak. Possibly a pressure test.
once it's had the white in it I'm sure all will be fine.
I'll try the blow torch idea on Saturday and see how I get on.
I'm reading some confusing info on the glow plugs. Am I right in thinking I can't just use a 12v source to test them?
 
You can simply wire them across a 12v battery to test them but they get very hot very quick. The bigger question is what sort are they and how are they wired. This is more confusing than it sounds. A photo would be good at this point. They may not be wired properly so may not work when in the engine.
 
They aren't wired to anything, just a shredded wire at the back of the engine. Presumably went to the resistor, they do have the wires between each glowplug. Once I know the engine runs I'll take them out any test them. I had read that they have resistors on them so you can't just test them with 12v
 
Is the resistor still on the bulkhead ? If so you could connect the first plug to one side [as it should be] and put 12v direct to the other and they may work.
 
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