12K TD5 Expectations

Emptywallet · Feb 26, 2018

Looking for my first Defender. I want a 110 TD5 SW and have approx. 12K as a budget. What can I expect? I expect it to have the odd ding and scrape, but is a rot free example with a reasonable amount of service history too much to ask for?

I am surprised how few are actually up for sale at any given time, which is why I assume the prices are so strong.

So, please set my expectations before I spend the rest of my life waiting for a unicorn to appear in the classifieds.

Mr S1 · Feb 26, 2018

First question mate is do you know your way around Defenders, and really know what to look for ? £12k is a good budget, but you can easily buy a pup if you don't know what you're doing.

Turboman · Feb 26, 2018

Emptywallet said:
Looking for my first Defender. I want a 110 TD5 SW and have approx. 12K as a budget. What can I expect? I expect it to have the odd ding and scrape, but is a rot free example with a reasonable amount of service history too much to ask for?

I am surprised how few are actually up for sale at any given time, which is why I assume the prices are so strong.

So, please set my expectations before I spend the rest of my life waiting for a unicorn to appear in the classifieds.

I would say you want a very good Td5 for that sort of money. Check the buyers guides in the Landrover mags.

lightning · Feb 26, 2018

Probably no use to you, but our absolutely pristine 2003 TD5 90 CSW is for sale at £12,000. A dealer has offered £11,000 as an outright purchase.
It needs nothing.

It’s reasonable to expect a similar 110 for that kind of money, although not from a dealer, who said they’d put mine up at £14,000

Al2O3 · Feb 26, 2018

Mr S1 said:
First question mate is do you know your way around Defenders, and really know what to look for ? £12k is a good budget, but you can easily buy a pup if you don't know what you're doing.

You should be able to get a very nice example for that money. However, if you don't know what you are doing then this......

Mr S1 said:
First question mate is do you know your way around Defenders, and really know what to look for ? £12k is a good budget, but you can easily buy a pup if you don't know what you're doing.

.........is going to be the best bit of advice you get on this thread. Because of the demand there is a lot of people making things look bonny. You need to be able to see past that, or find someone who can do it for you. It's not easy, especially if you are new to them. I wish I knew what I know now when I bought mine 13 years ago. Don't rush in! They are out there.

lightning · Feb 26, 2018

I paid £13,000 for the above Defender and while it was a really good one, l still spent a further £3,000 getting it how l wanted it.

Very few are truly mint. I’m a perfectionist with my cars.
We spent a year looking at Defenders in the £8-12,000 category. I bought a nice 300tdi for £8,000 before the TD5 but sold it after six months (and nearly £2,000 spent) as l could not make it how l wanted it.

Now l need to reduce my car count, l’m keeping my 110 which l use for my work but the 90 is going.
The missus is going back to a VW Polo.

Below is the 300tdi. I got £8000 from a dealer in part ex for the TD5. They sold it the day after for £10,500.
It was a good one.

Emptywallet · Feb 27, 2018

Thanks for all of your advice. I am new to defenders, but am reasonably mechanically minded and can usually spot a tarted up dog. I too am bit of a perfectionist, so wanted to set my expectations early.
From your posts so far, with my budget, I should not settle for anything but an honest looking, solid example.

For future resale, Is not having a full history a concern if the car appears to have been well maintained?

The 90 looks wonderful, but I need the space of a 110.

Thanks

Dean

dag019 · Feb 27, 2018

Emptywallet said:
Thanks for all of your advice. I am new to defenders, but am reasonably mechanically minded and can usually spot a tarted up dog. I too am bit of a perfectionist, so wanted to set my expectations early.
From your posts so far, with my budget, I should not settle for anything but an honest looking, solid example.

For future resale, Is not having a full history a concern if the car appears to have been well maintained?

The 90 looks wonderful, but I need the space of a 110.

Thanks

Dean

It depends what you consider to be a full service history. For me a service book full of stamps for something like a defender is almost meaningless as they require much more maintenance and fettleing than just an annual service at a paid for garage. You will also not get and "official" service history if the previous owner carried out the maintenance themselves. I would hope to see some history, but I would consider the previous couple of years is more important than the whole life. No point having an immaculate service history for the first 10 years if it has had nothing for the last two. And on the flip side I would be happy with no history for the first 10 years if there is then a large file of parts invoices and receipts for the last couple.
When I bought my 110 it was had nothing, all I had was the last MOT which was not worth the paper it was written on, but I was aware of that when I bought it. In my ownership I have done nearly all of the work myself so there is not "official" history, but every receipt from the last 10 years of my ownership for anything to do with it is in the vehicle file. Even small consumable items like crimp connectors and bulbs are in there. I would value a file like that from the last couple of years far more highly than a garage stamped service book for its whole life. When this is combined with a knowledgeable inspection of the vehicle you should be able to make an informed decision. I would base more weight on the results of a detailed vehicle inspection as it is presented than any paperwork or service data provided with it.

tom1979 · Feb 27, 2018

Defenders are still well over priced at the moment. eBay seems to be the worst, and I'd be surprised if any of them sell for what they are advertised for. £12k I personally think is lot for a 15 year old defender no matter how well maintained it is, but that's just the way it is at the moment while there are people willing to pay the money.

As @dag019 says, service history can be fairly irrelevant, especially when you see the standard of work for some of these garages. We've even had garages charge for work they clearly never did, so 90% of work is done ourselves now. We do keep a record of the work but not all the receipts as it's more so we know what and when we have done stuff than for any future owners, which I don't think there will be any as we tend to run stuff into the ground.

I've never bought a defender off anyone with clean hands

bankz5152 · Feb 27, 2018

£12k will get you plenty if you look hard enough! My 110 XS DCPU was £12k, 2 owners, 90k, FSH. Did take me over a year to find though

JimS · Feb 27, 2018

Some history is good, mine is 148K miles but got a new head at 110K so hopefully the plastic dowels / cracking issues are now a non-issue, certainly drives better than a lot of <100K ones I looked at.
It looked like it had an easy life, it's pretty easy to judge whether they have been looked after or not even without a service book
Chassis obviously needs scrutiny, saw some that were very nice on top but swiss cheese underneath.

dag019 · Feb 27, 2018

JimS said:
Some history is good, mine is 148K miles but got a new head at 110K so hopefully the plastic dowels / cracking issues are now a non-issue, certainly drives better than a lot of <100K ones I looked at.
It looked like it had an easy life, it's pretty easy to judge whether they have been looked after or not even without a service book
Chassis obviously needs scrutiny, saw some that were very nice on top but swiss cheese underneath.

I think this is key, the bodywork and interior are, in the grand scheme of a defender, fairly irrelevant. I understand that for the money you are spending you will want something which is tidy but it is the cheapest and easiest area to improve.This is why there are so many that look smart on top but are mechanically in poor condition. Five minutes underneath will give a far better indication of how it has been looked after than how straight and polished the body panels are. Even little things like the condition of the UJ's, although very cheap and easy to replace, if they have tell tale signs of being dry and not regularly greased what else has not been maintained properly. Rust pitted swivel balls are another easily inspected example.
It is all of the little things like the above examples that build to give a full picture of how good the vehicle is. It is far easier and cheaper to buy one that is mechanically perfect and spend a couple of days restoring and polishing the paint work, replacing the seats, etc to make it look smart than to buy one that already looks smart but has been mechanically neglected.

Turboman · Feb 27, 2018

dag019 said:
It depends what you consider to be a full service history. For me a service book full of stamps for something like a defender is almost meaningless as they require much more maintenance and fettleing than just an annual service at a paid for garage. You will also not get and "official" service history if the previous owner carried out the maintenance themselves. I would hope to see some history, but I would consider the previous couple of years is more important than the whole life. No point having an immaculate service history for the first 10 years if it has had nothing for the last two. And on the flip side I would be happy with no history for the first 10 years if there is then a large file of parts invoices and receipts for the last couple.
When I bought my 110 it was had nothing, all I had was the last MOT which was not worth the paper it was written on, but I was aware of that when I bought it. In my ownership I have done nearly all of the work myself so there is not "official" history, but every receipt from the last 10 years of my ownership for anything to do with it is in the vehicle file. Even small consumable items like crimp connectors and bulbs are in there. I would value a file like that from the last couple of years far more highly than a garage stamped service book for its whole life. When this is combined with a knowledgeable inspection of the vehicle you should be able to make an informed decision. I would base more weight on the results of a detailed vehicle inspection as it is presented than any paperwork or service data provided with it.

I agree. Dealer service history is just stamps in a book, unless you know the dealer concerned.

I always write down everything I do to the vehicle, oil and filter changes, fuel filters, greasing, and any parts fitted, in a book.
And I keep all the invoices for parts etc., and all the MOT certificates.
I would much prefer to see records kept by a conscientious owner than stamps from a main dealer, whose main concern is usually selling and warranty servicing new vehicles.

Turboman · Feb 27, 2018

tom1979 said:
Defenders are still well over priced at the moment. eBay seems to be the worst, and I'd be surprised if any of them sell for what they are advertised for. £12k I personally think is lot for a 15 year old defender no matter how well maintained it is, but that's just the way it is at the moment while there are people willing to pay the money.

As @dag019 says, service history can be fairly irrelevant, especially when you see the standard of work for some of these garages. We've even had garages charge for work they clearly never did, so 90% of work is done ourselves now. We do keep a record of the work but not all the receipts as it's more so we know what and when we have done stuff than for any future owners, which I don't think there will be any as we tend to run stuff into the ground.

I've never bought a defender off anyone with clean hands

Key words highlighted in red. Personally, I doubt if many do sell for what they are advertised for. It is obviously very advantageous to sellers, and those involved in the industry, to maintain the hype about high prices.
But people I know who have sold Defenders recently have achieved somewhat less. As you say, these are ageing vehicles now, and less comfortable than modern expectations.

lynall · Feb 27, 2018

Turboman said:
Key words highlighted in red. Personally, I doubt if many do sell for what they are advertised for. It is obviously very advantageous to sellers, and those involved in the industry, to maintain the hype about high prices.
But people I know who have sold Defenders recently have achieved somewhat less. As you say, these are ageing vehicles now, and less comfortable than modern expectations.

Less comfortable, more like as crude as fcuk

Turboman · Feb 27, 2018

lynall said:
Less comfortable, more like as crude as fcuk

I was trying to be polite, and not dent OPs bright eyed expectations!

lynall · Feb 27, 2018

Emptywallet said:
Looking for my first Defender. I want a 110 TD5 SW and have approx. 12K as a budget. What can I expect? I expect it to have the odd ding and scrape, but is a rot free example with a reasonable amount of service history too much to ask for?

I am surprised how few are actually up for sale at any given time, which is why I assume the prices are so strong.

So, please set my expectations before I spend the rest of my life waiting for a unicorn to appear in the classifieds.

Ebay advanced search, completed listings and the prices in green mean thats what it got bid up to/sold for.
Doesnt mean the others didnt sell, just that the seller most likely used ebay as an advertising medium rather than a selling tool.

I searched land rover defender td5 90 and got loads of results, not many with prices in green though! and the ones that were in green were quite a bit less than your 12k.

lynall · Feb 27, 2018

Turboman said:
I was trying to be polite, and not dent OPs bright eyed expectations!

Whenever people ask me what they are like I always say utter bags of ****e, BUT if you want a tool to do the job then it does the job pretty well, just not very fast/comfortable/warm/leak free etc etc

Turboman · Feb 27, 2018

lynall said:
Whenever people ask me what they are like I always say utter bags of ****e, BUT if you want a tool to do the job then it does the job pretty well, just not very fast/comfortable/warm/leak free etc etc

Very useful on the farm, and for towing and work.
Wouldn't be my choice of a daily drive now I am over 40.

lynall · Feb 27, 2018

Turboman said:
Very useful on the farm, and for towing and work.
Wouldn't be my choice of a daily drive now I am over 40.

I stopped driving my 200 daily 3 years ago and when I use it now its a real culture shock!

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