110 rolling chassis

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A

Austin Shackles

Guest

don't suppose any of you has one, with an identity, and ideally a decent
TDi?

Alternatively, a complete 110, body condition immaterial but in sound
mechanical order?

Chassis needs to be reasonable at least - the plan for it involves removing
the body, so minor chassis repairs are an option, but I don't really want to
be getting into replacing rear crossmembers or the like.

Actually, I might be able to get the one I sold back again - it was last
seen non-running and up the road at a mate's place, who was supposed to be
getting it running to be sold. If so it might be available cheap, and has
the advantage that I know it quite well. Of course, it has the disadvantage
that I know how worn the axles and suchlike are, and it depends on the
provenance of the V8 the chap put in it - if it's a good'un, it'd be a
possibility.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"If you cannot mould yourself as you would wish, how can you expect
other people to be entirely to your liking?"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xvi.
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> Chassis needs to be reasonable at least - the plan for it involves removing
> the body, so minor chassis repairs are an option, but I don't really want to
> be getting into replacing rear crossmembers or the like.

What are you planning on building? If its to remain a 110 then I'd do
my utmost to get a new chassis, you cannot beat having a chassis that
you know is straight and will last for years without having to fettle
it. www.richardschassis.co.uk make excellent chassis and they'll put
mounts wherever you want them to. For identity as you say, just get
your old one back and use it.

If its not to remain a 110 and budget is a major issue then IMHO you
cannot beat Range Rover/Disco chassis (I know you said you don't want
to replace crossmembers etc, but this is probably the cheapest way).
Once the sills have gone then they are beyond economic repair for most
owners and you will pick up one with a useable chassis for well under a
grand, + point being you'll get a Tdi and complete drivetrain as well
as identity. Add the cost of brand new outriggers and rear crossmember
and you still come out way ahead of the 110 option if you discount your
labour time.

I saw the 101 everyone was persuading you to buy on Saturday
http://www.101fc.net/billing-2003/billing-2003-37.jpg

Now owned by Crieff Hydro and looks really lovely in a navy colour, far
nicer than the green and white.

Regards

William Macleod

 
On or around 20 Mar 2006 02:53:11 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> Chassis needs to be reasonable at least - the plan for it involves removing
>> the body, so minor chassis repairs are an option, but I don't really want to
>> be getting into replacing rear crossmembers or the like.
>
>What are you planning on building? If its to remain a 110 then I'd do
>my utmost to get a new chassis, you cannot beat having a chassis that
>you know is straight and will last for years without having to fettle
>it. www.richardschassis.co.uk make excellent chassis and they'll put
>mounts wherever you want them to. For identity as you say, just get
>your old one back and use it.

It's for the infamous minibus project: LR 110 chassis and drivetrain with a
suitable (probably transit) minibus body fitted to same.

I've considered new chassis - at least one of the makers, for example,
offers a new chassis fitted with recon axles, box and TDi - and at the
price, it's a good deal. BUT, there's a problem - you might get away with
that as a replacement to rebuild an existing motor, but I reckon I'd run
into registration problems using that as a basis for a hybrid.

rebuilt/modified rules, IIRC, are such that if you retain the chassis,
engine, box and axles you have more than enough "points" to retain the
existing registration.

There's an interesting philosophical point about this: suppose I take an
extant but unserviceable land rover, and replace the chassis, then later the
engine, gearbox, axles, suspension and by this time the bulkhead is buggered
so you replace that and the front wings for good measure, and in the end you
can over say 2-3 years replace almost all the vehicle with a new one. At no
point do you run foul of the law on the matter of rebuilding vehicles.

But, according to the law, as I read it, if you do it all at once, you can't
retain the original registration.
>
>I saw the 101 everyone was persuading you to buy on Saturday
>http://www.101fc.net/billing-2003/billing-2003-37.jpg
>
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Chuck didn't reply, so George swung round in his saddle. He could just
see Chuck's face, a white oval turned toward the sky.
'Look,' whispered Chuck, and George lifted his eyes to heaven.
(There is always a last time for everything.)
Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out"
Arthur C. Clarke, "The 9 billion names of God"
 
In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around 20 Mar 2006 02:53:11 -0800, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Austin Shackles wrote:
> >
> >> Chassis needs to be reasonable at least - the plan for it involves removing
> >> the body, so minor chassis repairs are an option, but I don't really want to
> >> be getting into replacing rear crossmembers or the like.
> >
> >What are you planning on building? If its to remain a 110 then I'd do
> >my utmost to get a new chassis, you cannot beat having a chassis that
> >you know is straight and will last for years without having to fettle
> >it. www.richardschassis.co.uk make excellent chassis and they'll put
> >mounts wherever you want them to. For identity as you say, just get
> >your old one back and use it.
>
> It's for the infamous minibus project: LR 110 chassis and drivetrain with a
> suitable (probably transit) minibus body fitted to same.
>
> I've considered new chassis - at least one of the makers, for example,
> offers a new chassis fitted with recon axles, box and TDi - and at the
> price, it's a good deal. BUT, there's a problem - you might get away with
> that as a replacement to rebuild an existing motor, but I reckon I'd run
> into registration problems using that as a basis for a hybrid.
>
> rebuilt/modified rules, IIRC, are such that if you retain the chassis,
> engine, box and axles you have more than enough "points" to retain the
> existing registration.
>
> There's an interesting philosophical point about this: suppose I take an
> extant but unserviceable land rover, and replace the chassis, then later the
> engine, gearbox, axles, suspension and by this time the bulkhead is buggered
> so you replace that and the front wings for good measure, and in the end you
> can over say 2-3 years replace almost all the vehicle with a new one. At no
> point do you run foul of the law on the matter of rebuilding vehicles.
>
> But, according to the law, as I read it, if you do it all at once, you can't
> retain the original registration.

That's not quite how it works out in practice though. Changing the
engine for a new/recon one does not affect the number of points
retained, bit if you do change it for a different type *and* you
change the suspension/chassis you will have lost one point too many to
keep the original ID - the net effect being you can change the engine
*or* change the chassis/suspension, but not both - in effect you
can't build a completely new car and retain the old ID.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> It's for the infamous minibus project: LR 110 chassis and drivetrain with a
> suitable (probably transit) minibus body fitted to same.

No question about it then - an early 3 door 200Tdi discovery. Rotten
sills and doors crumbled to powder will mean that the owner will be
desperate to get rid of it for sensible money (anywhere from 250 quid
to a grand for vehicles that run with no MOT), you're going to be
hacking the chassis anyway and if you are very carefull you might get
to keep the disco registration as well. I wouldn't bother spending
money reconning the axles or engine on a project like this or it will
never get done! If they turn and are MOT ok then I'd leave them -
getting the body + chassis sorted and on the road first is the way to
go IMO. Get the chassis galved when you're done fettling it as well,
you will want to keep this one a long time with the work you will put
into it! You must have a local rag that you can advertise in for
little or nothing, I'm sure someone will have a rotten disco lying in a
yard close to you with your name on it.

Regards

William MacLeod

 
In message <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> writes
>
>don't suppose any of you has one, with an identity, and ideally a decent
>TDi?
>
>Alternatively, a complete 110, body condition immaterial but in sound
>mechanical order?


I have an old (Freg) TD hicap coming in soon that I will probably break.
Will have a look at chassis to see if it is good.
--
Marc Draper
 
On or around Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:21:51 +0000, Marc Draper
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> writes
>>
>>don't suppose any of you has one, with an identity, and ideally a decent
>>TDi?
>>
>>Alternatively, a complete 110, body condition immaterial but in sound
>>mechanical order?
>
>
>I have an old (Freg) TD hicap coming in soon that I will probably break.
>Will have a look at chassis to see if it is good.

presumably 110? that's a definite possibility if the chassis is any good.

things I don't need: bulkhead, body-mounting-specific outriggers (although
I may need the rear crossmember.

I'm in 2 minds about engine and box' could go with TDi manual or could go
with V8 auto and run on LPG. Largely down to what's available at the time.

I may try to get the 110 I sold back - it was last seen up the road not
running, and the bloke may sell it back to me cheap...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.
 
On or around 20 Mar 2006 11:13:23 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> It's for the infamous minibus project: LR 110 chassis and drivetrain with a
>> suitable (probably transit) minibus body fitted to same.
>
>No question about it then - an early 3 door 200Tdi discovery. Rotten
>sills and doors crumbled to powder will mean that the owner will be
>desperate to get rid of it for sensible money (anywhere from 250 quid
>to a grand for vehicles that run with no MOT), you're going to be
>hacking the chassis anyway and if you are very carefull you might get
>to keep the disco registration as well. I wouldn't bother spending
>money reconning the axles or engine on a project like this or it will
>never get done! If they turn and are MOT ok then I'd leave them -
>getting the body + chassis sorted and on the road first is the way to
>go IMO. Get the chassis galved when you're done fettling it as well,
>you will want to keep this one a long time with the work you will put
>into it! You must have a local rag that you can advertise in for
>little or nothing, I'm sure someone will have a rotten disco lying in a
>yard close to you with your name on it.

only trouble with that theory is that the disco chassis is too short for any
known van body. I do know someone who has a LDV 200 minibus (which I sold
'em a few years back) with a dud engine and not-brilliant body (but easily
repairable - wants stuff like anew wing where it were dented, etc.; it's
reasonably sound otherwise). The problem there is that the smaller LDVs are
114" wheelbase; I note that recent transits are 115". I'd not be too
worried about extending a 110 chassis by 4" (or 5") - get a couple of
channel sections bent up to fit closely over the 2 sides of the chassis and
cut it in the middle of a straight section, have channel sections to overlap
as much as possible and weld together. The 2 overlapping sections to join
top and bottom like the LR chassis does anyway - weld the smaller one on the
smaller side of the chassis first, going all around the ends and along the
long sides, then weld the larger one on the other side making a seam top and
bottom. getting the propshaft rebuilt 4" longer is no great hassle either.

However, putting 14" into a disco chassis might be more problematic - it's
considerably more bridging, and might be scrutinised much more closely.
Mind, LR put 20" into the middle to make a 130...

If it turns out that earlier transits are near enough tyhe right wheelbase
then that makes the choice of body easy... I'll measure one one day.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> However, putting 14" into a disco chassis might be more problematic - it's
> considerably more bridging, and might be scrutinised much more closely.
> Mind, LR put 20" into the middle to make a 130...

As you say, LR have done it bigger themselves on plenty of occasions,
and they didn't stop at 130. A 14" section is not going to here nor
there. If you are worried about hacking the chassis, hack the shell -
the one and only nicely done transit/RR I have seen I believe was done
this way. There are a few ways of the chassis extension, if I were
doing it I would make a cut in the straight bit as you say, plug weld
angle _inside_ the chassis legs to help line up your front and back
straight, plate over the angle iron takes you back to normal chassis
looking after you grind down the welds, then put diamond shaped plates
over the welds. Very strong, and relatively easy to keep everything
true, (and it's cheap as one can easily get bits of plate + angle!) but
if you can get appropriate channel easily then that sounds like that
would work fine too.

Regards

William MacLeod

 
>>I have an old (Freg) TD hicap coming in soon that I will probably break.
>>Will have a look at chassis to see if it is good.
>
>presumably 110?

If it were a 90 it would be called a lowcap !!!!!

--
Marc Draper
 
On or around 20 Mar 2006 14:31:19 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> However, putting 14" into a disco chassis might be more problematic - it's
>> considerably more bridging, and might be scrutinised much more closely.
>> Mind, LR put 20" into the middle to make a 130...
>
>As you say, LR have done it bigger themselves on plenty of occasions,
>and they didn't stop at 130. A 14" section is not going to here nor
>there. If you are worried about hacking the chassis, hack the shell -
>the one and only nicely done transit/RR I have seen I believe was done
>this way. There are a few ways of the chassis extension, if I were
>doing it I would make a cut in the straight bit as you say, plug weld
>angle _inside_ the chassis legs to help line up your front and back
>straight, plate over the angle iron takes you back to normal chassis
>looking after you grind down the welds, then put diamond shaped plates
>over the welds. Very strong, and relatively easy to keep everything
>true, (and it's cheap as one can easily get bits of plate + angle!) but
>if you can get appropriate channel easily then that sounds like that
>would work fine too.

The local steel bloke can fold up channel from (say) 3mm to any size I want.
The way I see it, if I get channel made to fit snugly on the "small" side of
the chassis tube, then it will hold the vertical alignment automatically -
later alignment can be done by a sod-off G clamp each side of the joint to
make sure the channel is tight to the side of the existing chassis rail. The
first bit can be welded all over the place - at the ends, along the top and
bottom and also inside where the original chassis stops. In fact, that
would, if done with heavier gauge steel, be strong enough - but it'd leave
scope for water to get into the chassis tubes, so a second, slightly larger
channel on the other side is the way to go.

It's a pity, really, that having gone for a chassis made of pressed channel
(rather than the old 4-plate one on the series) they didn't simply make a
heavier pressing and have an open channel chassis the same as most of the
commercials - much less likely to trap water and thus rot.

Actually, 3mm might be a touch too thick - I've an idea the original chassis
is 14 gauge which is 2mm, near enough - mind, that might be a series one.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)
 
On or around Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:09:21 +0000, Marc Draper
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>>>I have an old (Freg) TD hicap coming in soon that I will probably break.
>>>Will have a look at chassis to see if it is good.
>>
>>presumably 110?
>
>If it were a 90 it would be called a lowcap !!!!!

hehe. I never worked out if they extended the chassis in some way for the
high-cap. The body's certainly longer...

I saw a monster of a rangie the other day - about 150" wheelbase, 4-door
range rover on the front (minus the boot part) and summat a bit like the
size of a 110 pickup body on the back.

It's been a good week for odd-rangie-spotting, saw a metallic red 6-wheeler
(car, not fire engine) on the road as well.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)
 
>>If it were a 90 it would be called a lowcap !!!!!
>
>hehe. I never worked out if they extended the chassis in some way for the
>high-cap. The body's certainly longer...
>

No the chassis is the shame length but the body overhangs the rear
crossmemeber but about a foot.

--
Marc Draper
 
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:09:21 +0000, Marc Draper
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>>I have an old (Freg) TD hicap coming in soon that I will probably break.
>>>Will have a look at chassis to see if it is good.
>>
>>presumably 110?
>
>If it were a 90 it would be called a lowcap !!!!!

There was one in the LR rags last month, somebody stitched a shortened
hi-cap body onto the back of a 90 to make a lo-cap.

Alex
 
On or around Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:40:03 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Chassis needs to be reasonable at least - the plan for it involves removing
>the body, so minor chassis repairs are an option, but I don't really want to
>be getting into replacing rear crossmembers or the like.
>

The plan is gradually coming together. Transit body almost-perfect size...
about 111" wheelbase...

Can someone with a 110 measure the track between the inside edges of the
front tyres/wheels for me?

Transit underpinnings all look to unbolt nice and easily leaving a
basically-flat chassis.

And I've worked out how to fund it, I hope.


Watch, as they say, this space. Hope to have it ready in time for
Malvern...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 


>Can someone with a 110 measure the track between the inside edges of the
>front tyres/wheels for me?


Same as your Disco but dependant on wheel offset

The hicap I had coming in sold before it even came into the yard
....Sorry Austin
--
Marc Draper
 
On or around Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:24:09 +0000, Marc Draper
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>
>>Can someone with a 110 measure the track between the inside edges of the
>>front tyres/wheels for me?
>
>
>Same as your Disco but dependant on wheel offset
>
>The hicap I had coming in sold before it even came into the yard
>...Sorry Austin

's OK - there are other fish in the sea. The Plan calls for buying the
minibus bit first, and selling the current one.

IIRC wheel offset on the disco may be more than on the 110, making the
wheels sit further in on the disco. Mind, I did have some 8-spokes with
extra offset on the 110.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Chuck didn't reply, so George swung round in his saddle. He could just
see Chuck's face, a white oval turned toward the sky.
'Look,' whispered Chuck, and George lifted his eyes to heaven.
(There is always a last time for everything.)
Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out"
Arthur C. Clarke, "The 9 billion names of God"
 
On or around Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:33:05 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On or around Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:24:09 +0000, Marc Draper
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>
>>>Can someone with a 110 measure the track between the inside edges of the
>>>front tyres/wheels for me?
>>
>>
>>Same as your Disco but dependant on wheel offset
>>
>>The hicap I had coming in sold before it even came into the yard
>>...Sorry Austin
>
>'s OK - there are other fish in the sea. The Plan calls for buying the
>minibus bit first, and selling the current one.
>
>IIRC wheel offset on the disco may be more than on the 110, making the
>wheels sit further in on the disco. Mind, I did have some 8-spokes with
>extra offset on the 110.

Did have a thought about what might be a minor snag, and that's the turrets
on the front suspension. However, I don't really see whey they can't be
dispensed with and substitute dampers similar to the rear suspension, if
necessary. That's one of the bits that will be difficult to check until the
actual assembly stage.

Never actually worked out the why of the turrets. On the face of it, it
doesn't seem to offer any convincing advantage compared with a simple damper
from the axle to the chassis.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 
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