Getting Gwen the Mini to Run.

[Stanleysteamer]

Whole bodyshell is like new after the rebuild.
View attachment 336518
I have an MOT scheduled for tomorrow.
Interestingly, I took it out today and in the first part of my journey I had to turn left and then up a steep hill, it lacked power and we got the pre-detonation in the inlet side. I pulled the choke out and we regained power and stormed up the hill.
This led me to think it was under-fuelling. So I have tweaked the jet down a smidge and will try the same trick tomorrow.

One other mystery is what the valve clearances should really be. One school of thought says ALL A+ engines 12 in/12 Out but the Vizard-Wizard book has a table saying the Metro engine with std rockers should be 15 in and 15 out.
Now as I cannot identify what engine this is for certain, what should I do?
Try 15/15 and if it is a clattery bucket of bolts put it back to 12/12?

To look at your post backwards, yes, try the 15 thou gaps and if it remains clattery when hot then you can tighten them up one thou at a time until it stops. A tappy tappet is a happy tappet, as they say! It is a MG metro engine after all. You could also use compression test to see what changes come about as you do it. You want peak compression to be sure the valves are opening and closing properly.

I am now wondering if you haven't got a little bit too much advance coming from the vacuum. When driving uphill with your foot flat on the gas, it'll advance like that, which is what you were doing. BUT do make sure you do the tappets first. If your tappets are a bit tight then the inlet valves could be open too long which could mean that is why you are getting the pre-detonation.

If that doesn't stop it, try just disconnecting the vacuum tube and seeing how it goes without it. I doubt it'll continue to pink, if pinking is what it is doing.

I don't think continuing to richen it is the answer. You could do plug cuts to check how rich the mixture is.
But you have got enough to be going on with. You are very close to having it right.

 

[Firebobby1]

How'd the MOT go?

 

[DanClarke]

How'd the MOT go?

Passed.

 

[DanClarke]

Hmmmm.... petrol pump was weeping fuel.
Not the best thing to have dripping in the vicinity of a hot exhaust pipe is it? A shiny new pump arrived yesterday but "curses" the input-output pipes are fixed in their positions such that the output points straight at the exhaust. The old SU original has input/output on the same face of the top half of the pump and they are pointed away from the exhaust and towards the left wall of the engine bay.
Q: Did the diaphragm fail due to age or has the use of E5/E10 petrol caused it to go brittle? It is a 3-layer rubberised cloth sandwich. I reckon E5/10 has been the last straw for a tired diaphragm.

So there was a frantic search online to find a replacement diaphragm (having been told "Not Available" any more) and bingo, I found one.

EX MOD stock.
Old pump now in bits awaiting the new diaphragm. Hopefully it will mean all the old piping and connections can just go back as they were after I have put it all back together.

Next: Why doesn't it ever come off the cold-stop on the temp gauge? Tried 2 different senders (tested as OK in boiling water) but still no joy. I wonder if someone has failed to put a thermostat in and the engine never gets properly hot because of the oversized radiator?

Fun this Mini business isn't it?

 

[Stanleysteamer]

Hmmmm.... petrol pump was weeping fuel.
Not the best thing to have dripping in the vicinity of a hot exhaust pipe is it? A shiny new pump arrived yesterday but "curses" the input-output pipes are fixed in their positions such that the output points straight at the exhaust. The old SU original has input/output on the same face of the top half of the pump and they are pointed away from the exhaust and towards the left wall of the engine bay.
Q: Did the diaphragm fail due to age or has the use of E5/E10 petrol caused it to go brittle? It is a 3-layer rubberised cloth sandwich. I reckon E5/10 has been the last straw for a tired diaphragm.

So there was a frantic search online to find a replacement diaphragm (having been told "Not Available" any more) and bingo, I found one.

EX MOD stock.
Old pump now in bits awaiting the new diaphragm. Hopefully it will mean all the old piping and connections can just go back as they were after I have put it all back together.

Next: Why doesn't it ever come off the cold-stop on the temp gauge? Tried 2 different senders (tested as OK in boiling water) but still no joy. I wonder if someone has failed to put a thermostat in and the engine never gets properly hot because of the oversized radiator?

Fun this Mini business isn't it?

So you have finally found the source of the pong of petrol!
Well done!

Machanical Fuel Pump Leak - Problems, Questions and Technical

Machanical Fuel Pump Leak - posted in Problems, Questions and Technical: Hello, in classic mini style I went to use and theres yet another proplem Metro engine with mechanical pump Thought it was old rubber hoses so replaced them but now have realised the top of the pump rotates in my hand and...

www.theminiforum.co.uk

It appears there are a few pumps that could do the job and Metro turbo ones are electric and sit in the boot, prolly, or nearby. (Our old 850 woodie had an electric one. It broke down first in Spain then again in France. So we got an extra 3 days holiday on the AA 5 star.)

Have you not got an MG Metro Haynes? I found mine useful. Sadly now with grandson.

I don't see how the diaphragm has failed as it seems to be powering your engine just fine! Modern petrol will deffo have done the old pump no good at all. The NOS one will last for a while. Better still would be one made for modern petrol, if you can find one. A generic electric one would perhaps be better on that level.

Easier and quicker to check that the gauge is actually working than having to drain the coolant out to remove the stat. The stat housing can be a right bitch to get off, I had to saw mine off! But feeling around inside the housing with a finger or a bit of wire will tell you if there is a stat there or not. Wax stats are more likely to fail shut, or nearly, than open. Driving around on a cold engine isn't at all clever as clearances cannot close up, how do the rad hoses feel? Does the heater work? Yet again driving on a cold engine will distort the tune. All told I get the feeling that it is more likely to be the gauge or a connection to it.

Leaving the stat out isn't clever for another reason, the coolant will not flow as you would think. It would do, more or less, if you butcher the stat to remove the middle piece, but even then.

 

[landowner]

If you can get at the gauges easily then the fuel gauge is the same as temp so connect temp wire to fuel gauge see if it works. If it runs cold then either thermostat or gauge

 

[DanClarke]

I don't see how the diaphragm has failed as it seems to be powering your engine just fine! Modern petrol will deffo have done the old pump no good at all. The NOS one will last for a while. Better still would be one made for modern petrol, if you can find one. A generic electric one would perhaps be better on that level.

Well, I can't be sure but the ABD1001 pump has a vent hole in the lower half so that on the down/pull stroke of the diaphragm the air pressure created on that side of the diaphragm has somewhere to go while the fuel is pulled in the top side.
Fuel was to be seen dripping out of this non-fuel-side vent hole. So the 3-layer jobby must have been letting by.
I guess the pump was still able to keep the carb bowl topped up even though it was leaking a bit.
I will add a fuel stabiliser/conditioner (Castrol Valvemaster) to the E5 on every fill-up from now on.

When this diaphragm goes I can swap to a new style modern-fuel pump and redo all the fuel delivery pipework I guess.

 

[DanClarke]

I have been fixing various bits and pieces as parts arrive.
Today was the rear number plate lights with new lenses and bulb-holders.
I also rechecked/redid the timing to see if we can fully eradicate the detonation on throttle opening under some conditions.
I pulled all the plugs to see what sort of "fuelling story" they told.
Interestingly(?) cylinders 1 & 4 are the perfect caramel light brown colour while 2 & 3 are black and fouled.
I think this could be because 2 & 3 are "Siamese" ports directly under the single carb, and 1 & 4 are the outliers.
So what do you do? Adjust fuelling to get 2 & 3 correct and make 1 & 4 overly lean?

 

[landowner]

I have been fixing various bits and pieces as parts arrive.
Today was the rear number plate lights with new lenses and bulb-holders.
I also rechecked/redid the timing to see if we can fully eradicate the detonation on throttle opening under some conditions.
I pulled all the plugs to see what sort of "fuelling story" they told.
Interestingly(?) cylinders 1 & 4 are the perfect caramel light brown colour while 2 & 3 are black and fouled.
I think this could be because 2 & 3 are "Siamese" ports directly under the single carb, and 1 & 4 are the outliers.
So what do you do? Adjust fuelling to get 2 & 3 correct and make 1 & 4 overly lean?

cylinders 1 and 2 share a port as do 3 and 4 so it doesn't make sense
If two and three are black then I can't think of a cure off hand
Maybe a plug problem, clean em off and swap them around see what happens

 

[JimS]

I have been fixing various bits and pieces as parts arrive.
Today was the rear number plate lights with new lenses and bulb-holders.
I also rechecked/redid the timing to see if we can fully eradicate the detonation on throttle opening under some conditions.
I pulled all the plugs to see what sort of "fuelling story" they told.
Interestingly(?) cylinders 1 & 4 are the perfect caramel light brown colour while 2 & 3 are black and fouled.
I think this could be because 2 & 3 are "Siamese" ports directly under the single carb, and 1 & 4 are the outliers.
So what do you do? Adjust fuelling to get 2 & 3 correct and make 1 & 4 overly lean?

If it's detonating under load then timing is borderline and/or fuel RON is low
Treat it to some super and retard the ignition a smidge

 

[DanClarke]

If it's detonating under load then timing is borderline and/or fuel RON is low
Treat it to some super and retard the ignition a smidge

It has always had E5 (never E10) and I recently added Castrol Valvesaver at the last top-up which is a Lead Replacement and Octane improver.
Today I pulled the timing "All in" at 4,200 RPM back by 2 or 3 degrees to about 30° BTDC.
I am going out in it tonight for a decent little 70MPH run and I will get to "boot it" a bit.
It idles nicely without hunting even down at 600rpm (idle is meant to be 900..1,000.
I will keep knocking it back by 1 or 2 degrees and noting the results.

It's all rediscovered territory for me the last mini I had was a 1959 Mk1 850cc mini which I ran into the ground.

 

[Stanleysteamer]

cylinders 1 and 2 share a port as do 3 and 4 so it doesn't make sense
If two and three are black then I can't think of a cure off hand
Maybe a plug problem, clean em off and swap them around see what happens

This, I believe, is a pic of a Metro 1275 engine.

So the inlet ports of 1 and 2 are siamesed as are 3 and 4 , but the exhaust ports of 2 and 3 are siamesed, with 1 and 4 being not siamesed to anything.
So maybe this is where the confusion has arisen.
I wonder if he has an LCB. He ought to.

Difficult to imagine that the black plugs are due to a mixture issue. I feel more likely to do with burning oil in the cylinders for some reason. Valve seals for instance.

Are they black and oily or black and sooty? Are all the manifold nuts done up to the same torque?

 

[Firebobby1]

Twenty whole pounds

 

[DanClarke]

This, I believe, is a pic of a Metro 1275 engine.
View attachment 337485


So the inlet ports of 1 and 2 are siamesed as are 3 and 4 , but the exhaust ports of 2 and 3 are siamesed, with 1 and 4 being not siamesed to anything.
So maybe this is where the confusion has arisen.
I wonder if he has an LCB. He ought to.

Difficult to imagine that the black plugs are due to a mixture issue. I feel more likely to do with burning oil in the cylinders for some reason. Valve seals for instance.

Are they black and oily or black and sooty? Are all the manifold nuts done up to the same torque?

Black and sooty, not oily. Maybe they aren't getting hot enough to burn it off?

 

[DanClarke]

Progress! .... Well, maybe, maybe not, will have a few more runs to see.

Despite me having timed the life out of the thing it has still been giving me trouble when I am trying to accelerate from modest speeds (e.g. 30MPH) if there is any "load" involved (e.g. starting to climb a hill). The choices are:

1. Push hard on the gas pedal and the car goes all "throaty sounding" on the induction side followed by a predetonation in the inlet.
2. Drop down into a lower gear and rev the nuts off her and then eventually up into higher gears.

Trawling the miniforum I found a post that said predetonation was a sure fire [pun?] symptom of the engine "leaning out".
So I got the SU Carb workshop manual out and went to "Tuning", followed the instructions:

• Set the idle speed.
• Richen the mixture screw until the revs stop climbing.
• Back it off until the revs start to drop again.
• Reset the idle speed.

Gave it a try on a local long & fairly steep hill and where it would normally grumble and "pop & bang" in the process as you demand it speed up once you get out of the 30 limit to the "unrestricted" hill. No hesitancy, no pops-n-bangs just great acceleration.

We may be making progress at last. Fingers crossed!

 

[kermit_rr]

Whenever I've set an SU, set idle to slightly high. Lift piston a smidge.. if the revs drop, richen the mix, if it rises, lean it.
You're looking for revs to stay the same or drop 'slightly'. Adjust revs as you go to keep them slightly high.
Set revs to normal and you're done.
Each time you adjust the mixture, blip the throttle so it settles to the new mix before lifting the piston.

 

[Stanleysteamer]

Progress! .... Well, maybe, maybe not, will have a few more runs to see.

Despite me having timed the life out of the thing it has still been giving me trouble when I am trying to accelerate from modest speeds (e.g. 30MPH) if there is any "load" involved (e.g. starting to climb a hill). The choices are:

1. Push hard on the gas pedal and the car goes all "throaty sounding" on the induction side followed by a predetonation in the inlet.
2. Drop down into a lower gear and rev the nuts off her and then eventually up into higher gears.

Trawling the miniforum I found a post that said predetonation was a sure fire [pun?] symptom of the engine "leaning out".
So I got the SU Carb workshop manual out and went to "Tuning", followed the instructions:

• Set the idle speed.
• Richen the mixture screw until the revs stop climbing.
• Back it off until the revs start to drop again.
• Reset the idle speed.

Gave it a try on a local long & fairly steep hill and where it would normally grumble and "pop & bang" in the process as you demand it speed up once you get out of the 30 limit to the "unrestricted" hill. No hesitancy, no pops-n-bangs just great acceleration.

We may be making progress at last. Fingers crossed!

I am wondering if maybe the previous owner put plugs in it that are too cool for normal running. I'd go for standard NGK bp6es

Whenever I've set an SU, set idle to slightly high. Lift piston a smidge.. if the revs drop, richen the mix, if it rises, lean it.
You're looking for revs to stay the same or drop 'slightly'. Adjust revs as you go to keep them slightly high.
Set revs to normal and you're done.
Each time you adjust the mixture, blip the throttle so it settles to the new mix before lifting the piston.

Agree, this is the correct way to go. More or less. Technically when it is correct, the revs are supposed to rise slightly then drop back again.
But I wonder how many peeps remember to rev it up a bit between tweaks!! It is in even the most basic, i.e. Haynes, manuals.

 

[DanClarke]

Whenever I've set an SU, set idle to slightly high. Lift piston a smidge.. if the revs drop, richen the mix, if it rises, lean it.
You're looking for revs to stay the same or drop 'slightly'. Adjust revs as you go to keep them slightly high.
Set revs to normal and you're done.
Each time you adjust the mixture, blip the throttle so it settles to the new mix before lifting the piston.

No lift pin on a HIF44 unfortunately.
Plugs are BP6ES.

 

[landowner]

I just richen till it responds crisply to a quick opening of the throttle and idles nicely, you can tell if its been tuned by an expert they're never right

 

[kermit_rr]

No lift pin on a HIF44 unfortunately.
Plugs are BP6ES.

Use a thin screwdriver, or a long nail, something that won't impact the airflow too much and lift the piston directly.. couple of mm should do the trick