deep snow driving

[Morioka]

Hello,

I have a FL2 Td4 with manual gear box and just experienced some problems in deep snow.
I shifted into Grass-Gravel-Snow mode and whenever the weels entered in deep snow the car stoped and the engine craked down.
I have tried to strongly accelerate and slowly release the clutch (to get momentum) but w/o success and smell and smoke from the clutch as result.

I switched to mud/ruts mode and I felt an improvement but not tremendous. Still in deep hard snow the car stopped and engine as well.

Finnally I took the car out of the snow in general mode because this was the only mode in which the weels did not stoped and the engine din did not crack down.

The next day I have tried the sand mode and the car was very responsive.

Am I missing something? Please advise.

Thankshttp://www.landroverforums.com/m_22111/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm

 

[Sean]

Am I missing something?

momentum

 

[mondo]

yup!

a Depender

 

[yella]

where was this deep snow you talk of

 

[G-man]

get a motor without an idiot switch, no offence, mechanical grip beats computer trickery every day!

 

[Morioka]

On the mountain right next to Dracula castle. No joke. Romania 80cm snow last week.

 

[yella]

i think you need ter swap it fer a defender then

 

[Davec]

The throttle pedal intervention on the Freelander 2 is quite severe, I find sand mode often works best to get it moving, then switch back the appropriate mode when it is rolling.
What you're missing is an auto gearbox.

 

[Pikey]

The throttle pedal intervention on the Freelander 2 is quite severe, I find sand mode often works best to get it moving, then switch back the appropriate mode when it is rolling.
What you're missing is a proper 4x4.

.

 

[goonarmy]

if sand mode gets it moving and something else mode burns the clutch then use whatever gets yer gone regards of what the switches sez

 

[CharlesY]

get a motor without an idiot switch, no offence, mechanical grip beats computer trickery every day!

Ohh I don't know about that!

The traction control in my TD5 Disco enables me to out climb the TD5 Defender every time. He can only lock his centre diff, but mine controls each wheel individually.

It is extremely impressive, and I am sure no human with a standard transfer box could beat it.

Same with the ABS. No-one can stop a car quicker than the ABS can do it.

However, I bet a lot of experts will say I am wrong.
They can show me one day.

CharlesY

 

[CharlesY]

if sand mode gets it moving and something else mode burns the clutch then use whatever gets yer gone regards of what the switches sez

Sure but 80 cm of snow is 800 mm, and that is not far short of three feet deep snow. Two feet eight inches abouts if you're being fussy.

Now the Freelander shape is like a Hippopotmyarse.
It is not shaped like a snow-plough nor like Santa's sleigh.
So we need to act accordingly - and drive with due regard to what we are driving.

There are three ways to get vehicles past deep snow if you really need to proceed.

1. blast straight THROUGH it. This is a trick usually reserved for snow ploughs.
2. drive OVER it. Lioght tracked vehicles can sometimes manage this.
3. diversion onto a less snowy route.

Methods 1 and 2 are exciting, and tremendously impressive if you make it.
However, whenever driving is exciting, that is because of the element of danger, and danger means risk. The risk needs to be properly judged. If you blast into a deep snow drift, basically you are out of control from the moment you hit it, until you emerge happy, or get REALLY stuck, or you hit something hard. If you try driving OVER it, with any luck you'll get stuck very soon, and can dig yourself back out, or perhaps you'll be a long way in before your Hippo drops through the crust and sinks. You won't dig that out in a hurry.

That is why method three is generally the preferred option, if it is available.

Deep snow. Chains .... 'cos nothing else comes close.

CharlesY

 

[Trewey]

No-one can stop a car quicker than the ABS can do it.CharlesY

I have to disagree.
Maximum retardation occurs at the braking force just before the wheels lock. If that braking force can be held throughout the braking period, then the vehicle will stop in the shortest possible distance according to the road and tyre conditions.
Some skilled drivers can do this, although, in an emergency, everyone stamps on the brakes as hard as they can.
ABS works by detecting wheel speed and releasing the pressure in the brake line just before the wheel stops (locks) and then re-applying the pressure very quickly. You can feel this through the pedal as a vibration / pulsing.
ABS will prevent wheel lock in emergency braking and therefore stop you more quickly than a panic stamp without ABS. However, it will not stop you in the shortest distance that the vehicle and road conditions allow.

 

[CharlesY]

I have to disagree.
Maximum retardation occurs at the braking force just before the wheels lock. If that braking force can be held throughout the braking period, then the vehicle will stop in the shortest possible distance according to the road and tyre conditions.

WRONG! Maximum retardation occurs just BEFORE the tyre loses full 100% same speed grip with the surface of the road. This is a LONG TIME before the wheels lock up, i.e. stop turning. The moment there is any significant surface speed difference between tyre tread and road surface, traction and grip levels collapse. ABS detects speed differences BEFORE grip is significantly lost.



Some skilled drivers can do this, although, in an emergency, everyone stamps on the brakes as hard as they can.

WRONG! Most drivers do NOT stomp on the brakes as hard as they can! They usually press the pedal as hard as they DARE, which is usually not the same thing. Most drivers are completely inexperienced in extreme braking. Most may never have to do it in their lifetimes. Many are so scared of skidding and /or pushing the brake pedal so unusually hard they will actually hit something rather!


ABS works by detecting wheel speed and releasing the pressure in the brake line just before the wheel stops (locks) and then re-applying the pressure very quickly. You can feel this through the pedal as a vibration / pulsing.

WRONG! ABS detects a wheel's tendency towards slippage long before traction / grip is lost, and as you say it THEN backs off the brake pressure to PREVENT loss of traction / grip, not to restore it after it is lost. Then wheel hardly even slows down during the process, which is the whole beauty of ABS. It operates about TEN TIMES faster and with musch better accuracy than ANY human driver has ever achieved.


ABS will prevent wheel lock in emergency braking and therefore stop you more quickly than a panic stamp without ABS. However, it will not stop you in the shortest distance that the vehicle and road conditions allow.

I disagree with you. Good ABS is better than ANY person can be without ABS in the same car, tyres and conditions. ABS works ONE WHEEL AT A TIME each wheel individually, and NO non ABS system can come close to doing that, nor ANY driver.

This is why traction control is so supremely effective compared to mere locked centre diffs. I can have virtually NO grip on three wheels, but heaps of effort on the fourth wheel if it is on the hard.

I think it is the case that you have demonstrated to me at least that you don't quite / yet have enough experience or understanding to be qualified to make the statements you did as if they were proven facts.

To get the best from ABS requires faith, nerve and speed.
If the emergency appears in front of you you get on the brake pedal FAST, and you shove it down AS HARD AS YOU CAN SHOVE IT, and hold it down hard till the car stops or the problem goes away, one or the other. You just need to have faith that you can commit yourself to the ABS, and have the nerve to go for it big time.

I have had to do it once in my TD5 Disco, and when 'she' appeared in her MINI in front of me, I was doing 50+ and she STOPPED. I KNEW the rear end of the Mini was a gonner. I hit the brake pedal full belt hard, and to my utter astonishment stopped yards short of hitting her boot. Another man dragged her out of her car and was going to strangle her for doing the same to him a mile back. There was some "discussion" before we all went on our way!

I used to hold competition licences for all the usual categories of rallying and speed events, and specialised in speed off road. I think I know for sure that in all my life I have never and will never be able to stop better than ABS can stop me. But of course Treworgey90 will be able to.

CharlesY

 

[Dave 2000]

now now put the claws away........... I think there is an element of accuracy to many of the comments from both sides but emergency braking is not an exact science for example:

In a TRUE emergency and drawing from my own experience you just stand on the brakes as hard as you possibly can. That was as a youngster driving like a pratt in built up areas. A guy comes out of a side turning without looking and I KNEW I would hit him and with wheels locked and absolutley no steering response from the locked front wheels I did good and proper!

Later in life with a few years under my belt (many as a HGV driver ) the MAJORITY of the time when what would appear to be a situation that is going to be a disaster is not because you read the road better and tend more to anticipate other drivers you know the type 'youngsters driving like pratts in built up areas' anyway again in a true emergency I have still stood on the brakes as hard as I can and still trashed someones motor but managing to miss the baby who was in a buggy shoved out into the road from behind a lorry by a mother more interested in her mobile phone!

I had probably 10 ish yards to stop, the reality......I stood on that peddle so soding hard I thought I would break my ankle and yanked the steering to the right the lorry moved over enough to clear the kiddy but hit a parked car.

If the road had been wet then it would have been game over for the kiddy, there was not enough time to 'think' I will apply the brakes hard enough to stop but not hard enough to lock the wheels.


Next........take two identical cars down a gravel track one with ABS and the other without and then try a panic stop, the one with the abs will take longer to stop because the ecu is struggling to cope with the grip or no grip situation whilst the none abs car with locked wheels will just dig a nice trench and build up a load of grave in front of the tyres and stop in a shorter distance, give it ago.

The traction control issue could rage forever and again I have seen and used both electronic and manual systems. Without doubt the 300 tdi with traction control will leave a centre locked only vehicle in its wake........however, to get the traction control to do its job you have to have a few revs on and the wheels without/with very little grip have to spin for the ecu to detect loss of traction.

I have air lockers in both axles of my 200 tdi and in my personal opinion a mechanical lock to all wheels is the better option as the pace is a more steady and controlled one, and if getting into water with poor traction the disc brakes that the traction control uses to control the wheels are wet it does not work at all!

just my tuppence worth.

regards

Dave

 

[stevieb42]

How to Use ABS




"Stomp and steer," Hurd said. Don't treat ABS gingerly as you would ordinary brakes. Instead of pumping, press hard on the pedal without letting up. Any pulsing you feel or noise you hear is the ABS doing its job.
Remember that anti-lock brakes are chiefly designed to provide steerability. So don't wrench the wheel and freeze up. Focus on where you want your car to go and steer there as the ABS does its job to keep the car stable, just as Heard did in Michigan. "If you look at the obstacle you're wanting to avoid, chances are you're going to hit it; it's how the brain works," said Jim Gill, spokesman for Continental Teves, a manufacturer of ABS.
Make sure to practice how to use your ABS before you get into an emergency. Fred Heiler, Mercedes spokesman, encouraged drivers to "find an empty parking lot" to rehearse panic stopping. This also could help the driver get used to any pulsing or noise that might be associated with ABS.

 

[Davec]

Hello,

The next day I have tried the sand mode and the car was very responsive.

Am I missing something? Please advise.

Thanks

The Range Rover recommends Sand mode for deep snow.

 

[RAZ8550TDI]

think people are missing the fact that abs is designed to control the car in a skid situation i.e steering, i agree with what was said before and have disconected the abs on my other cars as i dont trust it as far as i could throw it, had better experience via my own cadence braking every time.
the other part is down to tyres, if you stick budget tyres on then abs will take far longer to stop you.

 

[slob]

just outta curiousity, how many folk have had their ABS kick for real?
the only time mine kicks in is when i jump on the brakes on a loose surface.
i've had to do a few emergency stop but the ABS never joins in. me wheels don't lock up but i don't get that pulsing through the pedal.

 

[disco_steve]

Seeing as this thread started off by talking about DRIVING IN SNOW . . .

Anyone fancy doing this ???

CROISIERE BLANCHE 2007

The dates for 2009 are 27th - 30th Jan . . . I'm planning on going, with a convoy of a couple of Dependers, couple of Discos . . . will be a blast, and maybe chance for a few of us to put our Traction Controls, ABS and Diff Locks into proper action !!!