mystic.bertie · Jul 4, 2009

i have had my 2000 p38 4.6 vogue for a month now and although i find keeping the suspension set at motorway helps a lot i still find it a pita going round corners and roundabouts, its a bit scary unless you drive round corners slowly, i recently misjudged a corner and was going a bit fast and i filled my pants trying to hold the rangie on the road safely.

i know its not the kind of car to buy for 'handling' but by 4x4 standards its still bad, although when not driving round corners its a fantastic beast to drive.

i was going to go for lpg conversion and keep it for 2 years but im now thinking am i going to be happy with it for that length of time.

i drove my audi a6 (2000 1.9 tdi) the other day and although you cant really compare the 2 cars i was just enjoying not get swayed all over the place

gtland · Jul 4, 2009

For a 4x4 I think the P38`s got pretty good road manners. As you say obviously not as low and rigid as a go-kart, but without the body roll of a 4x4 on metal springs. Guess you`ve checked shockers and tyre pressures etc? What wheels & tyres are fitted. If you don`t intend doing much muddy stuff bigger wheels with rubber bands instead of `proper` tyres may help? Dob you know of any-one nearby with a P38 far comparison?

Irishrover · Jul 4, 2009

Impossible to compare with a car, it's almost 2tons of permanent four wheel drive. My old Disco was 10 times worse than the Range Rovers (Classic & P38)..talk about top heavy!!!
As has been posted, check the shocks and the tyres..but don't expect miracles!
You have rightly said that "Normal" driving as opposed to "Round the houses" cannot be faulted but they do not like being thrown into, and around corners...leave that to the "Fast" guys in their Subaru's and suchlike with mobile disco's on board and Wayne & Tracey sunshade on the windscreen.

mystic.bertie · Jul 4, 2009

do i just compress the shocks and see if it bounces to check them ? i have not checked the tyres pressures, the car has new 19" wheels and tyres off of the new rangie so unsure what they should be set at.

also the car has just passed an mot would that suggest the shocks are fine ?

Irishrover · Jul 4, 2009

All the MOT looks for is leaking shocks basically. Raising the car by fitting larger wheels would also raise the centre of gravity of the body and be more noticeable when the suspension is at standard mode.. Possibly uprating the shocks may reduce body roll but that choice is relative to how much you are prepared to pay for them.

mystic.bertie · Jul 4, 2009

Irishrover said:
All the MOT looks for is leaking shocks basically. Raising the car by fitting larger wheels would also raise the centre of gravity of the body and be more noticeable when the suspension is at standard mode.. Possibly uprating the shocks may reduce body roll but that choice is relative to how much you are prepared to pay for them.

im assuming the larger wheels wont have raised the car as the outer diameter of the tyres are the same (im assuming this.

i dont know anyone with a rangie to compare the ride with, i would buy shocks if it would help but dont want to spend a lot.

gtland · Jul 4, 2009

As Irishrover may be thinking, without quite saying it, maybe the MOT tester ain`t as good as should be. I know the vast majority are scrupulous but maybe there`s a bit more play in radius arm bushes or anti-roll bar bushes? If you haven`t done it yet a good first step could be to get under it and twist and pull everything in sight! Get someone to bounce on the bonnet (without denting it) while you`re under the front. Try looking for any play anywhere. It soon mounts up between the various components. Hope the sun stays out for you!

mystic.bertie · Jul 4, 2009

gtland said:
As Irishrover may be thinking, without quite saying it, maybe the MOT tester ain`t as good as should be. I know the vast majority are scrupulous but maybe there`s a bit more play in radius arm bushes or anti-roll bar bushes? If you haven`t done it yet a good first step could be to get under it and twist and pull everything in sight! Get someone to bounce on the bonnet (without denting it) while you`re under the front. Try looking for any play anywhere. It soon mounts up between the various components. Hope the sun stays out for you!

lol that will be fun

ill see if i can find the time to check out the suspension, ill give it a wee bounce in the mean time and see if the shocks seem ok,

whats the psi for 19" wheels the book only tells me f28 and r38 for 18" wheels

gtland · Jul 4, 2009

Sorry. no idea on pressures. At least after scratching around on your back you should be confident nowt`s about to fall off, plus with EAS in high you don`t even need ramps! If you can jack up the chassis and support it on strong supports. This will leave the front axle hanging. With no weight free play might be more evident. BUT CAREFUL like all? Landys the hand-brake is on the transmission: so be sure wheels on ground are well chocked. DON`T use old bricks blocks etc to support car. Sorry if I sound like an old school marm , but don`t want coupla ton on your head. Have fun.

Datatek · Jul 4, 2009

mystic.bertie said:
i have had my 2000 p38 4.6 vogue for a month now and although i find keeping the suspension set at motorway helps a lot i still find it a pita going round corners and roundabouts, its a bit scary unless you drive round corners slowly, i recently misjudged a corner and was going a bit fast and i filled my pants trying to hold the rangie on the road safely.

i know its not the kind of car to buy for 'handling' but by 4x4 standards its still bad, although when not driving round corners its a fantastic beast to drive.

i was going to go for lpg conversion and keep it for 2 years but im now thinking am i going to be happy with it for that length of time.

i drove my audi a6 (2000 1.9 tdi) the other day and although you cant really compare the 2 cars i was just enjoying not get swayed all over the place

My 2000 P38 DSE runs 18" rims with Goodyear M+S tyres. For what it's worth, I reckon that there is less body roll than I got on my previous metal sprung 4 X 4 and the ride quality is much better. The steering is very much off road oriented with a steering box as opposed to rack and pinion and there are some strange body movements caused by the panhard rods and beam axles. Considering the location of height sensors and the BECM etc it is a pretty useless vehicle for serious off road use but great for climbing snowy hills and such

rangiegal · Jul 4, 2009

There is a serious difference between our Audi S8s drive and the Rangies, although both are 4x4s and I really enjoy both of them, each completely different and perform well in their own way. The Audi is probably the very best quality drive, build and everything else I have ever owned or driven, but the Rangie fills an important role in our lives and gets used a lot more than the Audi at the moment.

I think the Rangie fares best for ride quality and handling with 18" rims and Pirelli Scorpion tyres rather than bigger bling wheels and tyres, but others like the big stuff. The other thing that made a big difference to ride quality for me, was when I changed the shocks. You certainly can't throw it around corners the same way you can a high performance or sports car, but why would you want to? If you like to drive in that way, then you need a sports or performance car, not a P38

kooky_guy · Jul 4, 2009

mystic.bertie said:
i have had my 2000 p38 4.6 vogue for a month now and although i find keeping the suspension set at motorway helps a lot i still find it a pita going round corners and roundabouts, its a bit scary unless you drive round corners slowly, i recently misjudged a corner and was going a bit fast and i filled my pants trying to hold the rangie on the road safely.

i know its not the kind of car to buy for 'handling' but by 4x4 standards its still bad, although when not driving round corners its a fantastic beast to drive.

i was going to go for lpg conversion and keep it for 2 years but im now thinking am i going to be happy with it for that length of time.

i drove my audi a6 (2000 1.9 tdi) the other day and although you cant really compare the 2 cars i was just enjoying not get swayed all over the place

Funny this post should pop up. I've had my 98 P38 for a month too and I've been thinking exactly the same thing. Having said that, I've found locking it at motorway height really makes a difference to the handling.

I drove the wife's old Celica last week (which I always thought was slow) and I was absolutely blown away by the performance and handling. Must be getting used to my Rangie!!

I know I have some dodgy bushes on the front somewhere so I'm blaming the poor handling on those at the moment. I'm assuming the shocks are probably shot too so I'll do them when I do the airbags.

I'm on 18 inch riims with Scorpions.

Guy

zzr1200 · Jul 4, 2009

Your comparing two totally different vehicles, as said above the Rangey is a 2.5 ton box on beam axles with soft long travel suspension, if you want to go around corners fast get a family salon/sports car.

classic kev · Jul 5, 2009

For what it's worth I have driven a P38 and L322 and then there is my venerable old Classic.

The P38 rolls like a pig on wet grass, my old Classic would leave one for dead in terms of cornering. L322 is a different beast didn't make my mind up about that that but can't say I thought it was bad.

So, P38 very wallowy and definately not designed to go round corners (at least not at speed). Firmer shocks might help or in the alternative change the air springs for coils - the choice as they say is yours.

mystic.bertie · Jul 5, 2009

thanks for all the replies people, i know its not fair to compare a car to a rangie, but the 3 4x4's i have owned before did not have this handling problem
N frontera 2.8tdi
W frontera 3.2
N toyota surf 3.0td

the toyota has bilstein shocks and was a harsh ride, the newer fronty was harsh on standard shocks, the older frontera was ok but a bit bouncy.

it would be ideal if i could compare my rangie to another but there is no members near me or anyone i know with one. Also i am reluctant to spend money on shocks or springs when i dont know how much better it would be and i dont even think i could afford to do this.

I dont feel as though its a suspension bush or component that is knackered, although i get some steering judder on a very uneven road surface, i dont know if this is normal. I tried pushing down on each bumper corner and my shocks appear to be fine.

gtland · Jul 5, 2009

Trouble is we don`t know if it`s a design fault; e.g. you don`t like the way rangies behave, or a problem with your particular car? If you can try `n` get a drive in a know good`un. Have something to compare it to then. Personally I`d be in my old oily clothes (sunday best in my house) spending 5 minutes shaking the anti roll bar, radius arms, and 10 more minutes jacking the front wheels and shaking rattling them about. You say you`ve bounced on all 4 corners. Good. Trust no fluid or oily mud encasing an old fluid leak under the shocks. Hopefully it`s quarter of an hour wasted, except to eliminate any obvious faults.

mystic.bertie · Jul 5, 2009

gtland said:
Trouble is we don`t know if it`s a design fault; e.g. you don`t like the way rangies behave, or a problem with your particular car? If you can try `n` get a drive in a know good`un. Have something to compare it to then. Personally I`d be in my old oily clothes (sunday best in my house) spending 5 minutes shaking the anti roll bar, radius arms, and 10 more minutes jacking the front wheels and shaking rattling them about. You say you`ve bounced on all 4 corners. Good. Trust no fluid or oily mud encasing an old fluid leak under the shocks. Hopefully it`s quarter of an hour wasted, except to eliminate any obvious faults.

ill get the front up on ramps and have a looky, i cant jack the car, a certain person sold me the rangie without a jack and wheels spanner, shocking aint it, i have a trolley jack but it likely not rated heavy enough for a heavy beast like the rangie

also i set the pressures to 34f and 36r , they were at 28f and 34r, it has made a bit of a difference.

your right though it could be a fault or just the cars handling im not happy with

gtland · Jul 5, 2009

Worth a little time, just to make sure its nowt obvious. Where abouts are you, by the way? Maybe some-one on here looking over your shoulder.

mystic.bertie · Jul 5, 2009

gtland said:
Worth a little time, just to make sure its nowt obvious. Where abouts are you, by the way? Maybe some-one on here looking over your shoulder.

ayrshire scotland, where theres nothing going on

SpudH · Jul 5, 2009

Couple of things:
I'm nearly sure the 19" wheels use spacers to make them fit and this can lead to unusual handling qualities even though the lower profile tyres should in theory help. I believe as previously posted 18"s with Pirelli Scorpions appears to be the best handling combination.

If the MOT is anything like our DOE test (which I'm almost sure will have used the MOT as a template) it will not necessarliy identify bad shock absorbers. The pass/fail is based on discrepancy across an axle, If both shocks are equally bad it will pass whereas 1 good 1 bad on an axle will garner a fail. Over here 4 equally bad shocks will pass a DOE test. Fitting high quality gas shocks such as Bilstein or Koni will revolutionise the roll qualities of your RR.

As previously posted running at motorway height permanently should reduce roll also. If you have plenty money putting Arnott Gen III airbags under should stiffen it further.

Another rarely mentioned aspect to RR ownership (and indeed any permanent 4 wheel drive jeep I've driven) is how you actually drive the vehicle. You have to power these cars through a bend or they understeer and roll appallingly. Get your braking done before you turn in and when you get back on the power you will feel the car stiffen up and tighten its line. If you drive it like a front wheel drive car it will not thank you.

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