Toad said:
Well David you were right about something causing the pump to retard. I am back to square one. Definitely blue smoke, it pours out when the car is cold and its missing again. It started again after I had to pull into quick moving traffic and had to give it some welly when the engine was cold and I approached an island a few hundered yards down the road, took my foot off the throttle and smoke just poured out of it. and the engine is now noisier as well.

I had the tappets checked today and they were as they should be apparently. I tried the injector pump again and this time it has not worked. I managed to get the sedimenter tap to shift and have drained that. The oil and water levels are still constant and there has been no need to top either of them up. Once the car is up to temperature the problems appears to disappear, but this morning I found that if I sit and gently press the throttle until it reaches 2000rpm, at this point the engine seems to start spluttering and smoke starts to appear. It starts missing.

It sounds like a knackered old tractor and I'm starting to lose heart a bit. If you have any further thoughts they would be gratefully received.
Click to expand...

Hi Toad, can you just remind me what vehicle/engine/gearbox/age we're talking about.

I have an idea what it could be, but I just need the above info first.

Cheers
Dave
 
Hi again Dave

The car is a 1994 300Tdi Discovery, but the gear box I'm not sure of. Hope this helps.

Tony
 
Never mind Dave thanks for trying to come up with possibilities. I will just plod on and attempt to find someone that can help me.

Thanks again.

Tony
 
Toad said:
Never mind Dave thanks for trying to come up with possibilities. I will just plod on and attempt to find someone that can help me.

Thanks again.

Tony
Click to expand...

you sure it's blue smoke, probably white unburnt fuel again.

If advancing the timing sorted it the last time then lets go for timing, take the timing covers off and see where the marks line up, either the belts faulty or one of the keys in the gears and my money is on the crankshaft one since I've seen a few like that mentioned on here.

Take a socket and abar to your crank bolt just for curiosity and see if it's loose.

The worst case is the pump is fooked.
 
david451 said:
you sure it's blue smoke, probably white unburnt fuel again.

If advancing the timing sorted it the last time then lets go for timing, take the timing covers off and see where the marks line up, either the belts faulty or one of the keys in the gears and my money is on the crankshaft one since I've seen a few like that mentioned on here.

Take a socket and abar to your crank bolt just for curiosity and see if it's loose.

The worst case is the pump is fooked.
Click to expand...
Ok Dave I will do exactly what you suggest, but your already losing me slightly. When you say "see where the marks line up" which marks are we on about. Also "keys in the gears" what are they exactly. I'll have a go at anything, but as I'm sure you realise I am no mechanic.

Well all I can say is the smoke is definately not black. It smells heavily of fuel and I recently had to make a trip down to Edinburgh where the weather was very warm so I had to have the windows open. The fumes coming into the car were almost overpowering especially on decelleration. I don't doubt for one minute this problem is fuel based. I do have another 300 Tdi with a good pump on it, but would prefer to see if it is a problem with the timing rather than the pump at this stage.

So, fire away and I will see what I can do. Sorry if I don't reply straight away, but I will get back to you as soon as poss. My next session on the PC will be later today.
 
Toad said:
Ok Dave I will do exactly what you suggest, but your already losing me slightly. When you say "see where the marks line up" which marks are we on about. Also "keys in the gears" what are they exactly. I'll have a go at anything, but as I'm sure you realise I am no mechanic.

Well all I can say is the smoke is definately not black. It smells heavily of fuel and I recently had to make a trip down to Edinburgh where the weather was very warm so I had to have the windows open. The fumes coming into the car were almost overpowering especially on decelleration. I don't doubt for one minute this problem is fuel based. I do have another 300 Tdi with a good pump on it, but would prefer to see if it is a problem with the timing rather than the pump at this stage.

So, fire away and I will see what I can do. Sorry if I don't reply straight away, but I will get back to you as soon as poss. My next session on the PC will be later today.
Click to expand...

Hiya Toad, what David is talking about are the marks that are visible on various components, after the timing cover has been taken off. The keys he refers to I think would be the Woodruff keys which lock certain assemblies in place.

There is an excellent technical piece on the subject of changing a timing belt which will, quite literally, give you an excellent picture of is being referred to.

I go and find it for you now.

Here is an excellent thread which explains (I hope) very clearly what is required when changing a cam/timing belt. If you study this you will become familiar with the terminology and layout plus how it all fits together and works.

300TDI cambelt and Kit - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum

Hope that helps

Cheers
Dave
 
thebiglad said:
Hiya Toad, what David is talking about are the marks that are visible on various components, after the timing cover has been taken off. The keys he refers to I think would be the Woodruff keys which lock certain assemblies in place.

There is an excellent technical piece on the subject of changing a timing belt which will, quite literally, give you an excellent picture of is being referred to.

I go and find it for you now.

Here is an excellent thread which explains (I hope) very clearly what is required when changing a cam/timing belt. If you study this you will become familiar with the terminology and layout plus how it all fits together and works.

300TDI cambelt and Kit - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum

Hope that helps

Cheers
Dave
Click to expand...

That's a good thread.

If you don't have a spanner for the fan then it's the old blunt chissel and it's a left hand thread so dont go whacking it the wrong way.

It looks difficult but it's fairly simple just take your time, when I bought mine last year the guy told me it had a belt done but looking at the general workmanship I took it apart to check and found it one of the easiest I have done.

I recon the crankshaft woodruff key is worn.
 
Hi chaps i have been reading this thread with interest i agree with dave451 it sounds very much like a timing issue, Either pump or as stated woodruf key has worn and may have play in timing belt, once saw an engine on a 200 that had been cobbled together and the nut had been welded to shaft.f###ing cowboys, I was unfortunate to have an head gasket go on No4 pot oil side huge amounts of blue/black smoke and lumpy tick over, but the bugger would not give in just kept topping oil up for a couple of days until i could get into a professional engine shop, had new gasket and head skimmed did over 160k after.hope in some way this helps let us know the outcome.
regards cavking;)
 
david451 said:
That's a good thread.

If you don't have a spanner for the fan then it's the old blunt chissel and it's a left hand thread so dont go whacking it the wrong way.

It looks difficult but it's fairly simple just take your time, when I bought mine last year the guy told me it had a belt done but looking at the general workmanship I took it apart to check and found it one of the easiest I have done.

I recon the crankshaft woodruff key is worn.
Click to expand...

Hi there, if you don't have a viscous fan spanner - buy one !!!!!!!

They're only about a £5 and will make the job loads easier. Sometimes when you're taking the fan off, it's a little stiff to undo (remember anticlockwise to undo!!) give the spanner a couple of taps with a heavy hammer just to break the seal, then it should just spin off.
 
thebiglad said:
Hiya Toad, what David is talking about are the marks that are visible on various components, after the timing cover has been taken off. The keys he refers to I think would be the Woodruff keys which lock certain assemblies in place.

There is an excellent technical piece on the subject of changing a timing belt which will, quite literally, give you an excellent picture of is being referred to.

I go and find it for you now.

Here is an excellent thread which explains (I hope) very clearly what is required when changing a cam/timing belt. If you study this you will become familiar with the terminology and layout plus how it all fits together and works.

300TDI cambelt and Kit - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum

Hope that helps

Cheers
Dave
Click to expand...
Dave thanks for the really helpful reply. Can you tell me where I might obtain a timing tool for locking the flywheel. Part No. LRT 12 044. I've tried Paddocks with no success.
 
in all the cambelts that i have changed on 200/300's i have never needed the crank lokin tool, as long as you have tdc before taking the old belt off crank stays where it should
 
David, this is really getting confusing, 2 Davids. Anyhow thanks for your continued input. I have ordered a timing belt kit in preparation for the job so will come back to you as soon as poss.
 
stig said:
in all the cambelts that i have changed on 200/300's i have never needed the crank lokin tool, as long as you have tdc before taking the old belt off crank stays where it should
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Stig,but in this case the injector pump timing may well be out. Wouldn't I need to lock the flywheel so that the injector pump can be put into the right position? I really don't know what I'm talking about here so would be grateful if you just humour me and put me right.
 
cavking said:
Hi chaps i have been reading this thread with interest i agree with dave451 it sounds very much like a timing issue, Either pump or as stated woodruf key has worn and may have play in timing belt, once saw an engine on a 200 that had been cobbled together and the nut had been welded to shaft.f###ing cowboys, I was unfortunate to have an head gasket go on No4 pot oil side huge amounts of blue/black smoke and lumpy tick over, but the bugger would not give in just kept topping oil up for a couple of days until i could get into a professional engine shop, had new gasket and head skimmed did over 160k after.hope in some way this helps let us know the outcome.
regards cavking;)
Click to expand...
Cavking

Thanks for the input. I agree that the more this saga goes on the more it looks like a timing problem. Fortunately I don't have black smoke and no oil usage to note. The water is also steady. Just explain what the woodruff key is can you.
 
thebiglad said:
Hi there, if you don't have a viscous fan spanner - buy one !!!!!!!

They're only about a £5 and will make the job loads easier. Sometimes when you're taking the fan off, it's a little stiff to undo (remember anticlockwise to undo!!) give the spanner a couple of taps with a heavy hammer just to break the seal, then it should just spin off.
Click to expand...

If I bought one for every vehicle I worked on I'd have a garage full of the bastids by now, anyway I'm a tight fisted scot who always goes to casualty corner in the stores, what yer expect.

Anyway a little violence wif a chissle in the right hands never fails, a sharp one however hacks the bastid to fook, I threw mine away and fitted electric coz I think they are ****e.

When attacking it remember to make all the right noises, take that yer fooker, yer little bastid or I'l burn yer orf, and so on.
 
Toad said:
Dave thanks for the really helpful reply. Can you tell me where I might obtain a timing tool for locking the flywheel. Part No. LRT 12 044. I've tried Paddocks with no success.
Click to expand...


Hi Toad, there's a company Difflock.com and they used to do (don't know if they still do) all the tools for doing a cambelt change.

www.DIFFLOCK.com/shop

I know it's a lot of dosh, but it will make doing the job a lot easier and who knows you might find a like-minded Landy fan to go halves !!
4x4 Store
 
david451 said:
If I bought one for every vehicle I worked on I'd have a garage full of the bastids by now, anyway I'm a tight fisted scot who always goes to casualty corner in the stores, what yer expect.

Anyway a little violence wif a chissle in the right hands never fails, a sharp one however hacks the bastid to fook, I threw mine away and fitted electric coz I think they are ****e.

When attacking it remember to make all the right noises, take that yer fooker, yer little bastid or I'l burn yer orf, and so on.
Click to expand...

Hi David, I can understand that you are err, a little careful with your hard-earned, but to someone like me who is learning their way around Landys, I've found if I get the right bits the job ends up a good'un. If I try to save money and bang & crash around, I end up breaking something and it costs more and I get pee'd off.

So what I have learned is that sometimes it's a wise investment for me to buy the right tools - but we're all different - that's just what I've found.

Cheers
Dave
 
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