Hi Guys and girls,

So I have purchased a land rover 300tdi Land rover. It has a Disco R380 Gearbox, 24 spline diffs from TD5 both front and rear.

One of the many upgrades it has been given is a 3" lift. I am trying to look on Paddock Spares for some new Shocks for it as the rear two are completely different?? and one of the front ones is completely loose as it has lost a nut from the bottom.

If anyone has any idea on the shock absorbers i need then that would be great.. Im thinking the +4" Pro Comp Shocks, but I'm not sure about the bottom end of them? would it be able to travel too far up and hit the bottom too soon?

Any help would be appreciated. Im hoping to buy the kit by this evening. Thank you!

I would recommend reading and learning about suspension in general and specifically for a Defender. You will then be well placed to understand what will or won't be a good idea.

For the record and as a hint. A lift does not automatically require longer shocks. But chances are such a lift has been done badly and has only served to actually make the vehicle worse off road and worse on road. Quite an accomplishment really.

And based on the fact that you say the vehicle is in a poor state of repair now, your best bet might be to bin the lot and fit some standard shocks and springs first. At least this way you'll know how it's meant to go on and off road. If you then want to alter this performance envelope, you can address those specific areas.

Remember gaining in one area is normally at the detriment to other areas.

And for the record, there is usually very little need to lift a Defender, unless it is for a specific application. As they already ride higher than many other 4x4's.

you must be very tall to get in it with a 4" lift.

Personally I wouldn't have any lift. If you read all the threads on here you will see why. On a trip across Morocco a P38 had a couple of inch lift. The verdict at the end of the trip was "they wouldn't bother doing it again" all it did was enable them to sink a couple of inches deeper.
With regard to ProComp shocks. I have been running on them for about four years including a trip across Morocco and they are still fine. I would buy them again.

Hello Guys,

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
I have a series 3 Land Rover and a v8 defender that doesn't have any lift and I know what it's like whithout the lift.
I personally think that it performs better with so am trying to keep it like it is. Just replace the old rubbish for something new.
I will give the reading on general suspension a read definitely.

I did like the look of the pro comp shocks (good advice thank you)

I will probably try the 4" from paddocks unless someone can tell me a better/cheaper supplier?

Many thanks for your input!

Tom

Flailbasher said:

I personally think that it performs better with so am trying to keep it like it is.

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Maybe you could expand on this, or even add some pics. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I would be amazed if this were true. And would likely be defying several laws of physics. Lets face it, you said it has mismatched shocks at the back and one of the front ones isn't even attached.

If it's still riding and handling better than your V8 90, logic would suggest there is something hugely wrong with your V8 90.

Flailbasher said:

I will probably try the 4" from paddocks unless someone can tell me a better/cheaper supplier?

Many thanks for your input!

Tom

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Better and cheaper are usually mutually exclusive. That doesn't mean the most expensive is best. But fit for purpose is highly important.

As I say, read up on suspension.


But I'll give you a starter. If you removed the shocks and springs from the front of the LR. The axle will only move up and down so far. i.e. it isn't the shock or the spring that normally restricts the full travel (although it may).

If you fit longer shocks, then they will be offering nothing if the axle cannot drop far enough. And most longer shocks will have a bigger body, this means they will bottom out sooner under compression. So with stock mounting locations you may actually reduce up travel.

This all means, your longer shock may not be able to extend further than stock, and may not compress as far. End result = less total travel.

Depending on how your vehicle has been lifted (there are loads of different ways). If it's HD springs. Then all they do is extend the starting position of the shock on level ground. This effectively means you have less down travel available over a stock vehicle. Which usually results in getting axle twisted more easily off road.

HD springs will also be harder to compress. So while they may not reduce up travel, they may well require more effort to compress. Thus actually reducing the amount of up travel you can actually make use of. HD springs may also coil bind sooner, which will physically prevent any further up travel.


Lifting a vehicle with a suspension lift will change the pinion angle on the diffs. I.e. it lifts the nose of the diff up. This can cause binding issues on the props. And will change the front caster. Typically making a Defender handle like a pig on the road. And will raise the roll centre and centre of gravity of the vehicle too.


As I said, I'm not against lifting a vehicle. But it is more complex than just chucking on some crappy lift springs and longer shocks, if you actually want it to out perform a standard vehicle.

Directly at your question.

The shocks should be suitable for your setup and intended use.

Flailbasher said:

Hi Guys and girls,

So I have purchased a land rover 300tdi Land rover. It has a Disco R380 Gearbox, 24 spline diffs from TD5 both front and rear.

One of the many upgrades it has been given is a 3" lift. I am trying to look on Paddock Spares for some new Shocks for it as the rear two are completely different?? and one of the front ones is completely loose as it has lost a nut from the bottom.

If anyone has any idea on the shock absorbers i need then that would be great.. Im thinking the +4" Pro Comp Shocks, but I'm not sure about the bottom end of them? would it be able to travel too far up and hit the bottom too soon?

Any help would be appreciated. Im hoping to buy the kit by this evening. Thank you!

Click to expand...

Lift is really only needed for full time comp vehicles, and even then needs to be thoroughly done, lots of other uprated stuff, and expense.

For normal use standard springs are fine, I drive off road every day, just on standard height.

300bhp/ton said:

I would recommend reading and learning about suspension in general and specifically for a Defender. You will then be well placed to understand what will or won't be a good idea.

For the record and as a hint. A lift does not automatically require longer shocks. But chances are such a lift has been done badly and has only served to actually make the vehicle worse off road and worse on road. Quite an accomplishment really.

And based on the fact that you say the vehicle is in a poor state of repair now, your best bet might be to bin the lot and fit some standard shocks and springs first. At least this way you'll know how it's meant to go on and off road. If you then want to alter this performance envelope, you can address those specific areas.

Remember gaining in one area is normally at the detriment to other areas.

And for the record, there is usually very little need to lift a Defender, unless it is for a specific application. As they already ride higher than many other 4x4's.

Click to expand...

+1 to all of that!

SpaceDawg said:

you must be very tall to get in it with a 4" lift.

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Or caries a crate around with him!

mikescuba said:

Personally I wouldn't have any lift. If you read all the threads on here you will see why. On a trip across Morocco a P38 had a couple of inch lift. The verdict at the end of the trip was "they wouldn't bother doing it again" all it did was enable them to sink a couple of inches deeper.
With regard to ProComp shocks. I have been running on them for about four years including a trip across Morocco and they are still fine. I would buy them again.

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Agreein with all of that, too!

Only way I would think about lift is if I was building a one off for a particular sort of competition.

I'd agree with everything @300bhp/ton and @Turboman have said above. No but.

Both SWMBO and I drive off road everyday on standard height suspension.

Turboman said:

Only way I would think about lift is if I was building a one off for a particular sort of competition.

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I see no point in a lift unless its for competition.

300bhp/ton said:

If it's still riding and handling better than your V8 90, logic would suggest there is something hugely wrong with your V8 90.

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Indeed.

the V8 is a 130 and has no major issues.. Just a bit of rust!

It must've been used for serious off-roading though because it has the scars to show!
I used it to do something pretty extreme the other day and wasn't sure that my other Land Rovers would be able to do it..

The only thing I'm trying to do really is just keep it how it is and just renew the shocks, I don't want to go through with the hassle/expense of dropping it down to normal height and having the chance of not being completely satisfied..

You all know you're stuff so I am going to consider all things before I go ahead and buy the shocks.

So thanks again to all you guys because I now have loads of useful information to hand!

300bhp you said about the pinion angle on the diffs.. Would this create a "clunking" sound when I am at crawling speed and turn the steering to full lock? I have been noticing that recently and wasn't sure of what was creating that sound...

Thanks again!

Tom

The clunk could be many things tbh. Hard to tell without hearing it.

But props wear, even on standard height, so could be them. Although I'd expect it when you pull away or lift off the accelerator pedal.

If it's when you steer, then it could be a track rod, steering damper, radius arm bushes or even a loose steering box (either play in it, or the bolts holding it onto the chassis).

CV's can click rather than clonk under lock when they are wearing.

Re: shocks. ProComp are fine, used on many many vehicles. However the rear shock of a Defender is an eye at the top and pin at the bottom. Fronts are pin both end.

With longer shocks at the rear and depending on your exact rear suspension setup, it often results in the shock being the limiting factor for the amount of travel, i.e. it pulls the shock to it's stop and the weight of the axle hangs off it.

The eye welded on the top of the shock can pull off. This happens to Pro Comps, but can happen to other brands too. Which is why it is important to match your shocks to your setup and make sure your setup works. Some shocks are less prone to this happening than others. But can always be a risk. Swapping the top mount for a pin mount is one option, but will possibly result in other changed being needed as well.

I personally quite like Rough Country shocks. If you give David @ Llama4x4 a call, he is very friendly and helpful and will be able to advise which shocks to go for.

http://www.llama4x4.com/

Thank you 300bhp. I will give David a call!
the pulling on the axle is something I was worrying about which is why I started the post.. I didn't want to get the wrong shocks and break them instantly...

You've given me some more good ideas about the clunking and I will have a further look at it!

I don't think a 3 or 4 inch lift would have done anything for me here. You still get stuck up to your axles then its game over and out comes the shovels.
The P38 did have a lift, I don't remember if it was a 3 or 4 inch lift, it didn't do anything for them.


I think the only time a lift might be an advantage is when going over a serious rocky course and if its that bad I'm not sure I would want to be there in my Defender. Then as mentioned earlier your into a special build which effects normal road going conditions. A normal Defender is not the most comfortable vehicle at the best of times. And all the lifting in the world is not going to improve the ground clearance under the axles other than perhaps larger wheels/Tires.

mikescuba said:

I think the only time a lift might be an advantage is when going over a serious rocky course and if its that bad I'm not sure I would want to be there in my Defender. Then as mentioned earlier your into a special build which effects normal road going conditions. A normal Defender is not the most comfortable vehicle at the best of times. And all the lifting in the world is not going to improve the ground clearance under the axles other than perhaps larger wheels/Tires.

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That is about right, the idea on comp vehicles is to improve underbody clearance if you have to rollover big, steep obstacles. But of course it has disadvantages in other areas, like side slopes or low branches. The comp boys and girls get round it by widening track, beefing up wheel bearings, different radius arms, etc.



In the real world of work and daily drive, I encounter ground clearance issues about once every year. But I encounter issues with traction almost every day. And soft ground is very often a problem, as you say, lift will not help. Axle lockers are the best mod on a landrover.

Turboman said:

I encounter ground clearance issues about once every year.

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My tow bar does this to me almost regularly - its one of those height adjustable monstrosities - it needs changing, and I'll get round to it, but don't hold your breath

Turboman said:

Axle lockers are the best mod on a landrover

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+1 - on the "to do list" here = probably the Ashcroft ones... for both D1's

Disco1BFG said:

My tow bar does this to me almost regularly - its one of those height adjustable monstrosities - it needs changing, and I'll get round to it, but don't hold your breath



+1 - on the "to do list" here = probably the Ashcroft ones... for both D1's

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When I used to use the 90 for towing, I used to remove the DB towframe at other times, and bolt a little Vapormatic tow pin thingy on for general use. Now I have the disco as well, it is tasked with towing.

When I was on forestry work, I saw a series brought to a standstill when the stay bars caught over a stump!

You wont regret the axle lockers, Ashcroft are sposed be very good, I have Detroit locker rear, Tru trac 85% LSD in the front. Might have got Ashcroft if they had made them then.

I would love to have some axle lockers, but they seem rather expensive. That would be my preferred up grade next to improving the heater, but that's another story.

mikescuba said:

I would love to have some axle lockers, but they seem rather expensive. That would be my preferred up grade next to improving the heater, but that's another story.

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They are expensive, but will last well if maintained and not abused. You will still sink if the ground is liquefied, but if it is very greasy, or icy upslopes etc., diff lockers make all the difference.

mikescuba said:

next to improving the heater

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In a tratter ?!?!? Pah, lost cause

(FBH would appear to be the way, IIRC ?)

On the occasions I have got stuck, diff lockers wouldn't have made any difference. Where they might come in handy is in icy conditions. I haven't been caught out yet , but very close on a couple of occasions. The mother in-law lives way out in the sticks at 900 meters. She is in the snow line for a good three months of the year. Its rather tight turning at her place and its on a slope. When I reverse to do a three point turn it can be slippery in certain conditions. Once I have sorted the heating system out Diff lockers will probably be on the list for the next upgrade.

Disco1BFG said:

In a tratter ?!?!? Pah, lost cause

(FBH would appear to be the way, IIRC ?)

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I looking at these. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142122908857?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT