It requires way more throttle than the Defender ever did. Also, you need more speed as the TC brakes the wheel dragging you back so you need some momentum to carry you through. It felt a totally different way of driving off-road to the Defender to me.
Montyjohn
Well-Known Member
I liked that video. It got me thinking tho'
What would it take to fit D2 ACE to a P38?
Assume front only.
Since every man and his dog is ripping them out of D2's the ARB plus ram are really cheap on eBay. As are pumps and ECUs. Valve blocks are a little pricier however.
What would it take to get it working as a stand alone system. What inputs does it need. If the ECU needs to be integrated into other systems and the logic is a simple (which it may not be) then an Arduino approach could be a fun little project
Sounds like a lot of mucking about for minimal gain.
Montyjohn
Well-Known Member
Isn't that the definition of owning a P38
Datatek
Well-Known Member
Tell me what benefit you would gain from fitting unreliable ACE to a P38, it's being ripped out of Disco's for a reason.
Montyjohn
Well-Known Member
Superior road handling which I think the P38 would really benefit from.
What's not to like.
They are being removed from old Disco's so they can be run on a shoe string.
Not because there's anything wrong with the system. Yes it needs maintenance like everything else on these cars.
Just been doing a little research, sounds like all it needs are two accelerometers so if it can work as a standalone system it would be really easy to retrofit.
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
What makes you say it is unreliable? There might be people on near 20 year old un-maintained vehicles finding issues now. But it was never unreliable.
Benefits are pretty obvious, much flatter cornering. More stable, less roll, less wallow. In fact from a driving point of view, there is not a single downside.
So much so, that "Dynamic handling" aka ACE has been offered on other LR models since the D2. Other car makers have also used reactive roll bars and they have always been exceptional from a driver (or passenger) point of view.
ACE would have an even bigger impact on a 4x4 in terms of lean, but as you can see it is pretty dramatic even on a sports GT car...
Datatek
Well-Known Member
For a 2.25 tonne leviathan, the P38 handles on the road pretty well cornering much flatter than my previous 4 x 4's or my Transit for that matter, I can leave most cars on roundabouts, not something i would have tried in the Pajero. Lock it at motorway height for best handling on the road.
Datatek
Well-Known Member
Seen lots of stuff about leaking seals.What makes you say it is unreliable? There might be people on near 20 year old un-maintained vehicles finding issues now. But it was never unreliable.
Benefits are pretty obvious, much flatter cornering. More stable, less roll, less wallow. In fact from a driving point of view, there is not a single downside.
So much so, that "Dynamic handling" aka ACE has been offered on other LR models since the D2. Other car makers have also used reactive roll bars and they have always been exceptional from a driver (or passenger) point of view.
ACE would have an even bigger impact on a 4x4 in terms of lean, but as you can see it is pretty dramatic even on a sports GT car...
Salisbury Nick
Well-Known Member
ooh i like those. Where from?
Salisbury Nick
Well-Known Member
The p38 is great off road as it is. BUT! If you go green laning it will get scratched and dented. It will also bottom out, the diff’ will sit on every ridge between ruts and you will spend your life being towed out. So, if try and keep it immaculate and stock looking you will always be avoiding the fun lanes. If you do the fun/challenging lanes you will get frustrated and look to modify. Rock sliders are a must - but they won’t look ‘stock’. A 2” lift will enable bigger tyres and increase your ground clearance. You can do a body only lift for a fraction of the price of a full suspension lift - but it looks awful! A snorkel is advised, you really really don’t want to get water in your v8, and it might rain one day so getting quite wet could happen. Happens to me all the time. I don’t know where the transmission oil cooler rad’ is on the v8, on the 2.5d it is stupidly placed behind the front spoiler where it gets clogged with mud every time you go through a muddy puddle so I moved mine. I think you probably have to either make a choice, go concourse or go off road - not both - unless you get two of course, one for Sunday best and one for playing rough!
Montyjohn
Well-Known Member
I know you're right but what I'd like to achieve is as close as possible to both cars in one.
Take the rock sliders for example, if I made a custom set I guess I could hide them with a butchered set of standard rubber steps. Rocks still hit metal first, but at a glance they look like standard side steps.
Or take the wheel size conundrum, how about with a set or arnott gen 3 Bags al round, could I not run around at standard height with standard wheels, then for Greenlane day, trick the ECU to go super height, but larger wheels on with off-road tyres and have at it whilst hoping the EAS doesn't fail and leave me stuck on my arches.
I was trying to work out why I want a P38. I think it's because the P38 is the last luxurious live axle car LR ever made. It's the best of that body on chassis era from the LR offering, and if your limiting your choice to live axles what better car that offers luxury, looks, comfort and off road ability exists that achieves those to a greater degree all in one car than the P38? If I can make it better that's just a bonus.
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
The p38 handles ok. I’ve driven quite a few over the years. My Dad had a brand new M plate 4.6 back in the day. We had another 4.6 in about 2001/2002. And been in diesel and 4.0 manuals. Plus my current 4.6 owned for 7 years or so.
I’d say on the whole they ride and handle ok. But they all have wallow on turn in. It is something to do with the EAS. As soon as you turn the wheel they lean. Then seem to firm up. This is more pronounced than most coil 4x4’s IMHO. Not saying they handle bad or lean to extremes. But they are not really tight handling.
You can feel this on round abouts. Roll into a round about at say 20mph on the inside lane and turn the wheel with. Little vigour. You’ll feel the entire vehicle lean rapidly, then firm up. Keep going and it won’t lean any further. But it does give a real feeling of wallowing.
Switching mine to coils (and a big lift) it wallows way less than on the EAS. Or when compared to other 4x4s. On this basis I’d say the p38 also doesn’t grip as well. Followed a 110 years ago in the M reg 4.6 in some twisty Welsh lanes. The 110 would go round corners the p38 wouldn’t. Despite the p38 being on much more road biased tyres.
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
I love the p38. For me it is arguably the best Range Rover. It does everything the original does but fixes most of the issues with it.
Newer RR‘a just aren’t the same. They don’t drive or feel the same. Good cars still. But that for me is the issue. They feel far more car like. The p38 is still a 4x4 but with added luxury.
I think the post above from Nick is a little negative. The p38 is very capable off road IMO. Especially with a few mods. I’d say mine feels quite invincible off road. But I must caveat that with the fact it would depend where you off road.
Most green lanes are not a challenge at all in terms of off road terrain. But they can be narrow and scratchy. This depends by lane and partly by part of the country. But you can find narrow lanes and overgrown hedges anywhere. So scratching a p38 is highly likely. Some lanes can be tight on the terrain too. A 90 might be fine. But any RR or Disco could be at risk of body damage.
The only risk I’ve seen laning is deep tram lines/ruts and grounding out. Stock tyres could cause this with a p38. But you only need mildly taller and it shouldn’t really be an issue.
I have done some lanes in my p38. But I’d not take it many of the places I take a 90. Just too big. But this will be true for loads of vehicles. I’d not be concerned with the off road prowess of a p38 however.
In terms of live axle vehicles. I had an XJ Cherokee Jeep. Friggin awesome. 4.0 litre straight 6 with loads of room inside but hardly bigger than a 90 ok the outside. They need a lift from the factory. But a great all rounder and lots of toys too even if not as plush. The Jeep ZJ an WJ Grand Cherokee would be similar too if you want luxury and live axles.
Ruts are the biggest issue I have had on lanes. Some of them are obscene. The diffs catch and you're in trouble.
Some lanes are seriously scratchy. A mate used a special paint used for cranes and bridges on his 90 and it still scratched holes in it. I decided not to risk that one!
Datatek
Well-Known Member
I think it may depend on your driving style, it's no sports car but can be hustled round the twisties remarkably quickly for such a big heavy car.
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
Deep ruts can be an issue. Which is why a Freelander isn't always a good green lane vehicle choice either. For the p38 the stock tyres are about 29" tall, which isn't bad tbh. Not so different from a Disco 1, RRC or even a 90 fitted with 205 x 16's. They will all have the same clearance under the diffs. So the p38 shouldn't fair any worse here. Of course, most 90's run 235/85R26' which are 31.7" tall.
On my 90 and my p38 Im running 255/70R16's which is 30.1" tall, so a bit more than stock. I can't say I've had any issue laning as of yet with this size. Even in deep ruts like this:
My p38 would have been fine. But tbh, despite being worth less than a 90. It would feel wrong scratching it all up.
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300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
As said, they aren't bad. And I'm not knocking them as I own one too!
But the truth is, they do wallow. In person it would be so easy to demonstrate and show what I'm saying, but it is very difficult in words. I have driven lots and lots of 4x4's over the years and done a lot of things in them driving wise. The p38 on stock EAS is a good all rounder, but they are not the best riding or handling. Certainly not both at the same time. In the lowered motorway ride height they ride quite well. But wallow even more due to the soft air springs. The lower CoG is really only good for extreme manoeuvres in emergencies. The EAS allows better "rated" performance for emergency lane changes at speed for this reason, but it doesn't mean it actually handles better. The EAS's best attribute is it allows low entry access and can then increase ground clearance off road (even if it is stiffly sprung at that point). A fixed ride height would be a compromise of these two conflicting demands.
As for driving style. I'm quite well versed in the on limit handling of live axles.
The Jeep wallowed a lot less than a p38 does.
