bellautos
Active Member
NONE , a tuning box is for adding fuel, the companys who sell these things should say what they do and how they work to there customers realy.
Seems a bit harsh sorry
A tuning box especialy on a common rail TD4 engine can ONLY add fuel,It does this by interupting the signal to the common rail sensor and therefore increasing fuel pressure.
What it CARNT do is
Add boost
Raise torque limiters
Adjust the fueling correctley
etc
etc
But they do give some performance in a fassion.
Sorry for my hate of plug and play tools.
Seems a bit harsh sorry
A tuning box especialy on a common rail TD4 engine can ONLY add fuel,It does this by interupting the signal to the common rail sensor and therefore increasing fuel pressure.
What it CARNT do is
Add boost
Raise torque limiters
Adjust the fueling correctley
etc
etc
But they do give some performance in a fassion.
Sorry for my hate of plug and play tools.
ming
SPACE TWOT
My own opinion here and no slight on Bell Autos, i had a gismo fitted 2 years ago and ive driven a motor td4 with the flash mod, both about the same ,and as for fuel mine was even better after fitting the gismo,bout £110 of e bay, the next thing i'm gonna fit is one of rover rons mafams [they are the dogs]. . .
mondo
Banned
Hello there!TASH said:
Have a read of all the theads with the word ,MAF
If theres a reason you feel you need to tune the motor, this could certainly point you in the right direction, certanly did for me (Cheers ming, willow,roverrn.etc). I didnt think the td4 was anything other than amazing
(changing from a 200tdi Disco. nuff said!. its going to be different!)but after reading these threads ive probably saved myself a lot of money.
make sure you know what you want!. By allmeans fell free to thow as much money as you want at it, just let everone know how you get on,
(we wont laugh if you get it wrong, honist)
ming
SPACE TWOT
Ah yes nice one the Mondo think that the td4 and the older type diesels have a lot going for them and no need to pay a fortune by somebody with a lap top , now we are starting to de -mystify the freelander ,a lot more power and economy from these engines, so more info helps us all in the end. . .
mondo
Banned
Wow there tiger!, dismount from thy trusty high horse and lets have a chat...
I get the impression youve take exception to the comments above.
Apollogies!.This certainly wasnt intended ,in fact went stright to your site to have a look. But still dosent answer question TASH raised ie,whats it do ? how dose it do it? and dose it have any implication reguarding the warranty?
and if you [hate plug and play tools] so much, again your quote not mine!
dosent replacing the eprom and reprogramming it ammount to plug and play? or is because you [use some special tools and equipment]to achieve it
One last point, if thats the atitude you take to potential new customers I think you might have put a few people off, you certainly have me.
Look forward to reading your reply, Mondo. luv and kisses
I get the impression youve take exception to the comments above.
Apollogies!.This certainly wasnt intended ,in fact went stright to your site to have a look. But still dosent answer question TASH raised ie,whats it do ? how dose it do it? and dose it have any implication reguarding the warranty?
your quote not mine!bellautos said:
and if you [hate plug and play tools] so much, again your quote not mine!
dosent replacing the eprom and reprogramming it ammount to plug and play? or is because you [use some special tools and equipment]to achieve it
One last point, if thats the atitude you take to potential new customers I think you might have put a few people off, you certainly have me.
Look forward to reading your reply, Mondo. luv and kisses
mondo said:Wow there tiger!, dismount from thy trusty high horse and lets have a chat...
I get the impression youve take exception to the comments above.
Apollogies!.This certainly wasnt intended ,in fact went stright to your site to have a look. But still dosent answer question TASH raised ie,whats it do ? how dose it do it? and dose it have any implication reguarding the warranty?
your quote not mine!
and if you [hate plug and play tools] so much, again your quote not mine!
dosent replacing the eprom and reprogramming it ammount to plug and play? or is because you [use some special tools and equipment]to achieve it
One last point, if thats the atitude you take to potential new customers I think you might have put a few people off, you certainly have me.
Look forward to reading your reply, Mondo. luv and kisses
I second that, though as manufacturer of a very effective (& sensibly priced) tuning box for the BMW diesel engine I'm a little biased.
I wonder whether his aversion to 'plug and play' tuning boxes is because he does remaps?
Personally, I would never go back to a none adjustable tuning product. If it can't be adjusted by the turn of a knob I wouldn't have it regardless of cost. (Been down the remap route with Superchips, £500 & a waste of money.)
Ron
45zs.info
bellautos
Active Member
Hi to start im sorry if ive offended it was not ment to be, i think you have took my post the wrong way im sorry
I dont sell plug and play boxes that i can make for £3 because they only fool the injector pressure sensor to give more fuel in the injector rail.(this is not tuning)
Instead ive spent 20k on WinOls software to do the job proplery, you will find my name here NOTE the only tuner in the uk
http://www.evc.de/en/service/links.asp
When i alter a Eeprom in a TD4 i can alter boost/fuel .timing etc etc to make the origanal oppereating software in the ecu more enhanced for power and economy altering the torque curvs and limiters . WITHOUT EVEN OPENING THE BONNET OR THE ECU.
The dealer does not know its there unless you tell them.
Regarding adjustable boxes, if a tuning box was ever used these are the worst, if the car is "tuned with a box" proplery it should NOT be adjustable by the customer .
How does the customer know if the box setting are correct for the car ??
If i was ever to use a box the only one i would ever try is dastek ( a company who make and test there own)
UNLIKE Tunit who buy them from here and do no testing or electronics them selfs.
http://cms.autokorbel.at/index.html
Regarding my attutude im sorry if i came accross a bit harsh, i was only trying to say if you realy want a tuning box dont pay ££££££ here ,, make it your self for £3 there was no offence intended on my part.
I dont sell plug and play boxes that i can make for £3 because they only fool the injector pressure sensor to give more fuel in the injector rail.(this is not tuning)
Instead ive spent 20k on WinOls software to do the job proplery, you will find my name here NOTE the only tuner in the uk
http://www.evc.de/en/service/links.asp
When i alter a Eeprom in a TD4 i can alter boost/fuel .timing etc etc to make the origanal oppereating software in the ecu more enhanced for power and economy altering the torque curvs and limiters . WITHOUT EVEN OPENING THE BONNET OR THE ECU.
The dealer does not know its there unless you tell them.
Regarding adjustable boxes, if a tuning box was ever used these are the worst, if the car is "tuned with a box" proplery it should NOT be adjustable by the customer .
How does the customer know if the box setting are correct for the car ??
If i was ever to use a box the only one i would ever try is dastek ( a company who make and test there own)
UNLIKE Tunit who buy them from here and do no testing or electronics them selfs.
http://cms.autokorbel.at/index.html
Regarding my attutude im sorry if i came accross a bit harsh, i was only trying to say if you realy want a tuning box dont pay ££££££ here ,, make it your self for £3 there was no offence intended on my part.
ming
SPACE TWOT
Oh dear hope i ain't kicked summit orft here it was only my opinion, lets try and clear this one up [a] remapping is considered the best if done by the right company [and bell auto's have a good reputation and expertise in this] re chipping or super chips [good but now considered slightly old hat] [c] add on gizmo's [ be very care full a very few are very good, [but most are like bell auto's was trying to say are total ****e]. . . then you go a different route the maf subject [best go to the top dog in this subject] Rover Ron and again td4 owners the Bosch maf is only good for 30k miles and this is just my opinion go for a pierburgh maf with whatever Ron would fit with it, you see two different subjects, phew hope thats cleared it. . .
bellautos
Active Member
A = In my opinion yes
B = Sort of, SOME older ecu's have to have the chip changed because it had a OTP(one time programable) chip fitted so the chip must be changed to alter the mapping. Superchips can now also reflash the new ecus.
C= Yes exactley, MOST are ****e tricking boxes, but mainley only worth £3 and you can make it your self.
Regarding mafs i dont get invloved in replacing with different ones so i carnt comment , as said leave it to the experts.
@ ming ,, no m8 dont worry you not started anything off , this is what forums are for ,, finding out info from other users
B = Sort of, SOME older ecu's have to have the chip changed because it had a OTP(one time programable) chip fitted so the chip must be changed to alter the mapping. Superchips can now also reflash the new ecus.
C= Yes exactley, MOST are ****e tricking boxes, but mainley only worth £3 and you can make it your self.
Regarding mafs i dont get invloved in replacing with different ones so i carnt comment , as said leave it to the experts.
@ ming ,, no m8 dont worry you not started anything off , this is what forums are for ,, finding out info from other users
ming
SPACE TWOT
Thanks Bell autos, but will add that i understand youre hate of add ons there is [not many] some really good gizmo's out there the one i bought is a German model and it is the dogs [but the Germans have been doing this for a long time] but yes like you say its good to debate these things then people can make there own call. . .
mondo
Banned
cheeers ! and apologies from me!
Your reply was very much appreciated(tho must confess not expected)
I for one did take your comments as a ( put down), must be that time of the month!, sorry! but your response proves me wrong and in most cases your right, the customer probably has no reason to be able to adjust( or fu-ck about with) thing that can cause serious damage if they are not informed of the consequences.
P.S I personally aint got a problem about paying for some one thats taken the time and effort, and investment!to provide me with what i want,I just like to be informed about what ime getting and what it dose.
Cheers!
Mondo.
PPS Educate me!. Id love to know more!
Your reply was very much appreciated(tho must confess not expected)
I for one did take your comments as a ( put down), must be that time of the month!, sorry! but your response proves me wrong and in most cases your right, the customer probably has no reason to be able to adjust( or fu-ck about with) thing that can cause serious damage if they are not informed of the consequences.
P.S I personally aint got a problem about paying for some one thats taken the time and effort, and investment!to provide me with what i want,I just like to be informed about what ime getting and what it dose.
Cheers!
Mondo.
PPS Educate me!. Id love to know more!
£3 analogue tuning boxes may well be "rubbish".
You need to use digital technques so you can control, the fuel more accurately (as is used by my Tu3 and Synergy).
However, its ridiculous (& unprofessional) to slag off "plug and play options" - it just sounds like sour grapes.
Remaps can be over written by dealers during servicing. Its quite common for them to do a routine firmware update.
At least with a plug in box, it can be removed before servicing/warranty work is done. Ditto when the vehicle is sold.
Finally, any fixed tuning product (remap or box) must be a 'one size fits all' compromise.
Adjustable ones can be set for 'fast road' use or turned down for towing/off road - ie depending upon the load.
However, whatever the method, they are just a means to an end.
Namely, improved performance and its down to the individual owner to weigh up the pros and cons.
Ron
You need to use digital technques so you can control, the fuel more accurately (as is used by my Tu3 and Synergy).
However, its ridiculous (& unprofessional) to slag off "plug and play options" - it just sounds like sour grapes.
Remaps can be over written by dealers during servicing. Its quite common for them to do a routine firmware update.
At least with a plug in box, it can be removed before servicing/warranty work is done. Ditto when the vehicle is sold.
Finally, any fixed tuning product (remap or box) must be a 'one size fits all' compromise.
Adjustable ones can be set for 'fast road' use or turned down for towing/off road - ie depending upon the load.
However, whatever the method, they are just a means to an end.
Namely, improved performance and its down to the individual owner to weigh up the pros and cons.
Ron
bellautos
Active Member
I have to aggree on some points and disagree on others but this is what forums are about.
regarding software updates i also agree BUT since i have the WDS and T4 i always tune with the latest software for the car im working on , therefore there is no need for a dealer to reflash to newer software because it is already on the car.
and there is no new software updates out for the td4 and td5 since 2002
regarding me commenting on plug and play this is not sour grapes i just want to let pople know that MOST are not worth the money.
I carnt and have not and never will comment on your tuning option as ive never seen it and dont know how it works.
i also agree that the tuning option is for the customer to decide , this is why i did NOT try and sell my tuning i just commented on others.
regarding software updates i also agree BUT since i have the WDS and T4 i always tune with the latest software for the car im working on , therefore there is no need for a dealer to reflash to newer software because it is already on the car.
and there is no new software updates out for the td4 and td5 since 2002
regarding me commenting on plug and play this is not sour grapes i just want to let pople know that MOST are not worth the money.
I carnt and have not and never will comment on your tuning option as ive never seen it and dont know how it works.
i also agree that the tuning option is for the customer to decide , this is why i did NOT try and sell my tuning i just commented on others.
bellautos said:
That's fair enough, I haven't taken your comments personally, but your blanket dismissal of plug in tuning products merited a response.
I would say that the prices charged for some of these bear no relation to the cost of parts used and in that sense many are poor value, especially if they do not deliver the goods.
If my vehicle was under warranty, I would be concerned if it needed attention (I mean, unrelated to any tuning) if I had had a remap installed.
It may not be detectable nor overwritten, but I'm damn sure they'd notice it when test driving after the repairs. Whether or not they'd be bothered is another matter. But at least with a plug-in product, you can remove it before going near the dealer. (Even at the road side in the event of a major breakdown)
Also, drivers requirements differ, some make other mods and vehicle use varies, so adjustability is important. This is why I went down the route of a plug in product. I use a single chip microcontroller so I can remap the signal in real time depending upon the sensor signal level. This also enables me to offer upgrades and other options, like a 3 way dash switch, power meter and recently, combine the power upgrade function with a digital maf compensator. (Synergy)
Finally, I'm not touting for business, (I am just about keeping up with demand) simply maing the point that all tuning products are NOT equal and price is no guarantee of performance!
Ron
I think I might have started something hee.
Ron is this your device http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FREELANDER-TD...ryZ32094QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem if so I know you will be biased but how simple is the install and what are the results like.
If this is your product is there anything in the price you could do for a forum memeber, at all, please?
Ron is this your device http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FREELANDER-TD...ryZ32094QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem if so I know you will be biased but how simple is the install and what are the results like.
If this is your product is there anything in the price you could do for a forum memeber, at all, please?
TASH said:
yeah I should have tried that one (altho my work may well be soon running a fleet of 10 freebifters and then I will be going cap in hand to Ron)
With regards to ease of fitting Tash - once you have fitted one then it really is a piece of cake, if you are pretty dextrous then it can be done with no tools whatsoever - if not then 4 bolts
does it make a difference to performance??? - oh yes!!!!!!!!!
