>>>Not coloured in the UK as far as i am aware, but three times cheaper than
>>>DERV !!!!!
>>>
>>
>>bound to have chemical markers in it even if it's not coloured, though.
>
> No need, because it's a different distillate fraction the ratio of
> carbon to hydrogen is different and shows up in the exhaust gas as
> such, same reason that the emission tester for lpg has to be
> interpreted differently during the test.
>
> AJH

But Diesel testers only test the particulates that's in the exhaust not the chemical
composition

--
Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green


 
GbH wrote:

> In news:ekoTe.3854$oq4.1280@newsfe5-win.ntli.net,
> Ray <rayj@tau-re.org> blithered:
>> GbH wrote:
>>
>>> In news:12orh1psu0cabgbrm7ds2jp8190p39gfll@4ax.com,
>>> Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> blithered:
>>>> On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:20:29 +0100, "Geo"
>>>> <gk33@UNIOFkent.ac.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:3o55v8F494i2U1@individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>>> What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices
>>>>>>> reached 3 dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars
>>>>>>> probably make a V8-powered Landie seem frugal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mind you, US gallons are *tiny* :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't know the difference until now actually and I'm ashamed to
>>>>> say that, even after four years in England, the only gallon volume
>>>>> I knew was the US one. One more reason for me to say how nice and
>>>>> standardised metric values are......
>>>>
>>>> weren't nothin' wrong with pints and gallons 'til the US lot got at
>>>> 'em... Actually, I think it's th epints that are undersized. Ours
>>>> are 20 fl. oz, US ones are 16 fl.oz.
>>>
>>> I can see where the Merkins arrived at a 16oz pint (1pt mrk = 1lb,
>>> cf 1l = 1kg) but can't for the life of me understand 20oz, except
>>> that it makes a gal imp 10lb.
>>>
>>
>> It is confusing:
>>
>> http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/measures1.htm
>>
>> You want the 'measuring volumes' section near the top of that page.
>
>
> So I was nearly right.
>
>
Well, you were indeed right about the 10lb thing. I never knew the US fl oz
was /slighty/ different from the imperial one though!
--
Ray
 
so AJH was, like...
> On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:33:32 +0100, Austin Shackles
> <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:
>
>> On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:42:41 +0100, "StaffBull"
>> <StaffBull@spamtrap.staffbull.net> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>> Not coloured in the UK as far as i am aware, but three times
>>> cheaper than DERV !!!!!
>>>
>>
>> bound to have chemical markers in it even if it's not coloured,
>> though.
>
> No need, because it's a different distillate fraction the ratio of
> carbon to hydrogen is different and shows up in the exhaust gas as
> such, same reason that the emission tester for lpg has to be
> interpreted differently during the test.
>
> AJH

Shame really, as I have about 40 gallons of the stuff in a drum in the back
garden, left over from when we had a new oil tank for the heating. Looks
JUST like diesel, smells JUST like diesel. Not that I would, or anything,
but it's tempting.

At the moment it's for starting bonfires and cleaning stuff up. Bit of a
waste.


--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
In news:d2HTe.999$Q%2.101@newsfe1-win.ntli.net,
Ray <rayj@tau-re.org> blithered:
> GbH wrote:
>
>> In news:ekoTe.3854$oq4.1280@newsfe5-win.ntli.net,
>> Ray <rayj@tau-re.org> blithered:
>>> GbH wrote:
>>>
>>>> In news:12orh1psu0cabgbrm7ds2jp8190p39gfll@4ax.com,
>>>> Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> blithered:
>>>>> On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:20:29 +0100, "Geo"
>>>>> <gk33@UNIOFkent.ac.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:3o55v8F494i2U1@individual.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices
>>>>>>>> reached 3 dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars
>>>>>>>> probably make a V8-powered Landie seem frugal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mind you, US gallons are *tiny* :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't know the difference until now actually and I'm ashamed
>>>>>> to say that, even after four years in England, the only gallon
>>>>>> volume I knew was the US one. One more reason for me to say how
>>>>>> nice and standardised metric values are......
>>>>>
>>>>> weren't nothin' wrong with pints and gallons 'til the US lot got
>>>>> at 'em... Actually, I think it's th epints that are undersized.
>>>>> Ours are 20 fl. oz, US ones are 16 fl.oz.
>>>>
>>>> I can see where the Merkins arrived at a 16oz pint (1pt mrk = 1lb,
>>>> cf 1l = 1kg) but can't for the life of me understand 20oz, except
>>>> that it makes a gal imp 10lb.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is confusing:
>>>
>>> http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/measures1.htm
>>>
>>> You want the 'measuring volumes' section near the top of that page.
>>
>>
>> So I was nearly right.
>>
>>
> Well, you were indeed right about the 10lb thing. I never knew the
> US fl oz was /slighty/ different from the imperial one though!

Typical Merks, never could accept what someone else says, just have to go and
invent their own thing and then insist they were right all along and everybody
else should change! (to suit them)

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
In news:3o8telF4p2deU1@individual.net,
Richard Brookman <newsboy@nowhere.com> blithered:
> so AJH was, like...
>> On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:33:32 +0100, Austin Shackles
>> <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:42:41 +0100, "StaffBull"
>>> <StaffBull@spamtrap.staffbull.net> enlightened us thusly:
>>>
>>>> Not coloured in the UK as far as i am aware, but three times
>>>> cheaper than DERV !!!!!
>>>>
>>>
>>> bound to have chemical markers in it even if it's not coloured,
>>> though.
>>
>> No need, because it's a different distillate fraction the ratio of
>> carbon to hydrogen is different and shows up in the exhaust gas as
>> such, same reason that the emission tester for lpg has to be
>> interpreted differently during the test.
>>
>> AJH
>
> Shame really, as I have about 40 gallons of the stuff in a drum in
> the back garden, left over from when we had a new oil tank for the
> heating. Looks JUST like diesel, smells JUST like diesel. Not that
> I would, or anything, but it's tempting.
>
> At the moment it's for starting bonfires and cleaning stuff up. Bit
> of a waste.

Quack quack!!

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:03:23 +0100, "Andy.Smalley"
<Andy.Smalley@Bigfoot.Com> wrote:

>> No need, because it's a different distillate fraction the ratio of
>> carbon to hydrogen is different and shows up in the exhaust gas as
>> such, same reason that the emission tester for lpg has to be
>> interpreted differently during the test.
>>
>> AJH
>
>But Diesel testers only test the particulates that's in the exhaust not the chemical
>composition

You are referring to the diesel MOTR test, I was referring to the C&E
test for fuel composition and just using the lpg variation of the
emissions equipment used in a MOT test to show how the difference
arises.

AJH

 
On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:30:30 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>Shame really, as I have about 40 gallons of the stuff in a drum in the back
>garden, left over from when we had a new oil tank for the heating. Looks
>JUST like diesel, smells JUST like diesel. Not that I would, or anything,
>but it's tempting.

No reason not to use it for off road or stationary engine use. Or just
don't get caught.

AJH
 
Rich Hi,

it is the same thing here in Greece.
The only parts that benefit are the oil producers and companies and more
importantly the Greek State through indirect taxation gains (tax on fuel is
such a form of taxation)

We Greeks are relatively lucky when you consider that we do have the
cheapest fuel in Europe (maybe Portugal is on the same price level with us)
but then again the income levels of people here in Greece are considerably
lower than in the UK. So our price of fuel is in fact higher than yours are
a percentage on a household's income.

But I would definately hate to pay almost 1.5 Euros per litre of diesel (not
that this won't happen soon ....)

Take care
Pantelis


"Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3o3od9F44u5gU1@individual.net...
> so Pantelis Giamarellos was, like...
> > Now that diesel prices have sky rocketed here in Greece (1.020
> > Euros/lt.) using the waste olive oil (or any other wasted oil from
> > our kitchen) makes even more sense.
>
> Skyrocketed to ?1.02 per litre!!! In GB terms, that's 69p. We are now
> looking at 99.9p/litre for diesel and rising - that would be ?1.47 in
Greek.
>
> If the increase was the result of market conditions following Katrina, I
> could accept this. But the majority of the price is tax, which means that
> logically the majority of the increase is tax too. The price per barrel
> goes up a bit, the price at the pump goes up a lot. I have seen it
> estimated that if prices remain at their current levels (and who doubts
that
> they will, regardless of the price of crude), the Treasury will benefit to
> the tune of £1bn over the course of a year. That's £1bn of extra taxation
> that never went through Parliament, never was voted for in an election -
> just a windfall for Gordon Brown, which will no doubt go to fund a few
more
> speed cameras or something.
>
> Not having a go, Pantelis, but this really hacks me off.
>
> --
> Rich
> ==============================
> Disco 300 Tdi auto
> S2a 88" SW
> Tiggrr (V8 trialler)
>
>


 
Geo Hi,

are you by any chance subscribed to the www.offroad.gr and www.to4x4.gr
fora?

Take care
Pantelis

"Geo" <gk33@UniKnownAsKent.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:dfis2j$bu$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk...
>
> "Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3o3od9F44u5gU1@individual.net...
>
> > Skyrocketed to ?1.02 per litre!!! In GB terms, that's 69p. We are now
> > looking at 99.9p/litre for diesel and rising - that would be ?1.47 in
> > Greek.
>
>
> You'll have to put this into perspective; firstly, Greek wages are nowhere
> near as good as UK ones and secondly, UK fuel prices are just ludicrous
and
> therefore cannot be included in sensible comparisons, so you'll have to
> compare Greek prices with other continental European ones. Still, I think
> that Greece has one of the cheapest average fuel prices within the EU, so
> it's not that tragic, even though it has one of the lowest average wages
> (pre-expansion) as well. Regarding Britain, what's going on in this
country
> with pricing is beyond me and I'm not only referring to fuel (being Greek
> myself, the prices I see in the UK are even more impressive).
>
> What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices reached 3
> dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars probably make a
V8-powered
> Landie seem frugal.
>
>
> Geo
>
>


 
On or around Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:43:24 +0200, AJH <sylva@despammed.com>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:33:32 +0100, Austin Shackles
><austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:
>
>>On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:42:41 +0100, "StaffBull"
>><StaffBull@spamtrap.staffbull.net> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>Not coloured in the UK as far as i am aware, but three times cheaper than
>>>DERV !!!!!
>>>
>>
>>bound to have chemical markers in it even if it's not coloured, though.
>
>No need, because it's a different distillate fraction the ratio of
>carbon to hydrogen is different and shows up in the exhaust gas as
>such, same reason that the emission tester for lpg has to be
>interpreted differently during the test.

mind, there's more'n one kind, though. 28 second is what we have here, for
the boiler, which I gather you can run a diesel engine on; but there's also
35 second oil, which IIRC is "the same" as red diesel
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:34:51 +0100, Austin Shackles
<austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:

>
>mind, there's more'n one kind, though. 28 second is what we have here, for
>the boiler, which I gather you can run a diesel engine on;

Yes, this is often known as heating oil or kero, slightly yellowish.
It can cause problems with diesel as it has a poor cetane rating, also
little lubricating properties.

> but there's also
>35 second oil, which IIRC is "the same" as red diesel

Yes, gasoil, identical to DERV but markers added.

AJH
 
so AJH was, like...
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:30:30 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
> <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Shame really, as I have about 40 gallons of the stuff in a drum in
>> the back garden, left over from when we had a new oil tank for the
>> heating. Looks JUST like diesel, smells JUST like diesel. Not that
>> I would, or anything, but it's tempting.
>
> No reason not to use it for off road or stationary engine use. Or just
> don't get caught.
>
> AJH

Just occurred to me. My ickle boat has a Perkins diesel. I have a 10 litre
fuel can that I use to carry a reserve supply. This can is filled with
marine (red) diesel - around 40p/litre at the moment down here.

If I empty the can into the boat's tank, then fill it with DERV and carry it
in the Disco as a spare, and then run out of diesel and have to fill the car
from the can - I will have traces of red diesel in my car tank.

ISTR a thread on here a while back where someone said that if C&E find even
a trace of red diesel in a road vehicle, you're off for a long holiday.
Would this be an acceptable explanation, do you think?

Just thinking...

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:23:46 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:

>Just occurred to me. My ickle boat has a Perkins diesel.

Somewhere to use the heating oil as a small dilution then.

>ISTR a thread on here a while back where someone said that if C&E find even
>a trace of red diesel in a road vehicle, you're off for a long holiday.

It's the long walk that most people will find annoying.

I don't normally drive a diesel on the road, other than ones running
on red so I cannot say, mind I have had cause to put DERV in instead
of red and that hurts.

AJH

 
Richard Brookman wrote:

> so AJH was, like...
>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:30:30 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
>> <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Shame really, as I have about 40 gallons of the stuff in a drum in
>>> the back garden, left over from when we had a new oil tank for the
>>> heating. Looks JUST like diesel, smells JUST like diesel. Not that
>>> I would, or anything, but it's tempting.
>>
>> No reason not to use it for off road or stationary engine use. Or just
>> don't get caught.
>>
>> AJH
>
> Just occurred to me. My ickle boat has a Perkins diesel. I have a 10
> litre
> fuel can that I use to carry a reserve supply. This can is filled with
> marine (red) diesel - around 40p/litre at the moment down here.
>
> If I empty the can into the boat's tank, then fill it with DERV and carry
> it in the Disco as a spare, and then run out of diesel and have to fill
> the car from the can - I will have traces of red diesel in my car tank.
>
> ISTR a thread on here a while back where someone said that if C&E find
> even a trace of red diesel in a road vehicle, you're off for a long
> holiday. Would this be an acceptable explanation, do you think?
>
> Just thinking...
>
I don't think there IS an acceptable explanation!
JD
 
so JD was, like...
> Richard Brookman wrote:
>
>>>> ISTR a thread on here a while back where someone said that if C&E
>> find even a trace of red diesel in a road vehicle, you're off for a
>> long holiday. Would this be an acceptable explanation, do you think?
>>
> I don't think there IS an acceptable explanation!


No, that makes sense, you're right.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
so AJH was, like...
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:23:46 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
> <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Just occurred to me. My ickle boat has a Perkins diesel.
>
> Somewhere to use the heating oil as a small dilution then.

I've never heard of anyone having a marine tank dipped, but as marine diesel
does have duty on it (although less than DERV) I expect that even that would
be illegal and the penalties for being caught similarly draconian.


--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:51:42 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>I've never heard of anyone having a marine tank dipped, but as marine diesel
>does have duty on it (although less than DERV) I expect that even that would
>be illegal and the penalties for being caught similarly draconian.

I didn't realise that, mind a 10% dilution would be difficult to
trace. I have had the need to buy marine diesel on one occasion as
there was no local agricultural supplier. I wondered why the forms I
filled in to say it wasn't for road use were so draconian and the
price a few pence higher.

If we can tax marine diesel what's the argument for not taxing avtur?

AJH

 

"AJH" <sylva@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:csb2i1tee0h7n4393tej2058m4c4oscj85@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:51:42 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
> <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >I've never heard of anyone having a marine tank dipped, but as
marine diesel
> >does have duty on it (although less than DERV) I expect that even
that would
> >be illegal and the penalties for being caught similarly draconian.
>
> I didn't realise that, mind a 10% dilution would be difficult to
> trace. I have had the need to buy marine diesel on one occasion as
> there was no local agricultural supplier. I wondered why the forms I
> filled in to say it wasn't for road use were so draconian and the
> price a few pence higher.
>
> If we can tax marine diesel what's the argument for not taxing
avtur?
>
> AJH
>

10% dilution would be VERY easy to trace. C&E have portable detectors
that can tell far lower concentrations than that


 
so AJH was, like...
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:51:42 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
> <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I've never heard of anyone having a marine tank dipped, but as
>> marine diesel does have duty on it (although less than DERV) I
>> expect that even that would be illegal and the penalties for being
>> caught similarly draconian.
>
> I didn't realise that, mind a 10% dilution would be difficult to
> trace. I have had the need to buy marine diesel on one occasion as
> there was no local agricultural supplier. I wondered why the forms I
> filled in to say it wasn't for road use were so draconian and the
> price a few pence higher.
>
> If we can tax marine diesel what's the argument for not taxing avtur?
>
> AJH

Mind, if the Govt has its way, this situation won't exist much longer.
Apparently the EU want to harmonise all fuel duty rates in the near future,
and our derogation on marine diesel duty runs out in 2006. In other words,
unless Tony, Gordon et al make a fuss and insist on keeping the derogation
(and why would they, seeing as how it will mean more money for them) then
marine diesel will be taxed just like DERV from next year. There's a big
campaign going on about this in the boating mags.

It won't affect me too badly, as the boat uses about half a gallon an hour
at cruise, but it will make running a larger boat prohibitively expensive
for some.

It will happen because boat owners are perceived to be posh (along with fox
hunters etc) and therefore are fair game - unlike chefs, pop stars and
poverty campaigners, who must be courted at all costs.


--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
Richard Brookman wrote:
> so AJH was, like...
>> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:51:42 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
>> <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've never heard of anyone having a marine tank dipped, but as
>>> marine diesel does have duty on it (although less than DERV) I
>>> expect that even that would be illegal and the penalties for being
>>> caught similarly draconian.
>>
>> I didn't realise that, mind a 10% dilution would be difficult to
>> trace. I have had the need to buy marine diesel on one occasion as
>> there was no local agricultural supplier. I wondered why the forms I
>> filled in to say it wasn't for road use were so draconian and the
>> price a few pence higher.
>>
>> If we can tax marine diesel what's the argument for not taxing avtur?
>>
>> AJH
>
> Mind, if the Govt has its way, this situation won't exist much longer.
> Apparently the EU want to harmonise all fuel duty rates in the near
> future, and our derogation on marine diesel duty runs out in 2006. In other words, unless Tony, Gordon
> et al make a fuss and insist on
> keeping the derogation (and why would they, seeing as how it will
> mean more money for them) then marine diesel will be taxed just like
> DERV from next year. There's a big campaign going on about this in
> the boating mags.
> It won't affect me too badly, as the boat uses about half a gallon an
> hour at cruise, but it will make running a larger boat prohibitively
> expensive for some.
>
> It will happen because boat owners are perceived to be posh (along
> with fox hunters etc) and therefore are fair game - unlike chefs, pop
> stars and poverty campaigners, who must be courted at all costs.

I will like meeting a man like you, plenty to say & a good point of view!!

Iv'e seen that somewhere before I'm sure!!

Nige

--
Subaru WRX (Annabel)

Landrover 110 County Station Wagon (Tyson)

'"Say hello to my little friend"


 
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