"Tim Hobbs" <tim@spam.com> wrote in message
news:iusqh1dukojifanenvd9tj8dksr1e3e8hu@4ax.com...
> >when put into perspective you can see the huge increase, just because
> >we've
>>been paying the equivelent of around 6 dollars a gallon for the last year
>>dosent matter, we've been paying that ammount for ages,
>
> Have you not noticed the 20-25% increase in the last 12 months or so?
>
> I paid 99.9 for diesel yesterday, same time last year it was about
> 80p.

Sorry, but I genuinely think it's about time there was another fuel strike,
just to ram the message home to the robbing barsteward government!!
Badger.

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:33:38 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>"Tim Hobbs" <tim@spam.com> wrote in message
>news:iusqh1dukojifanenvd9tj8dksr1e3e8hu@4ax.com...
>> >when put into perspective you can see the huge increase, just because
>> >we've
>>>been paying the equivelent of around 6 dollars a gallon for the last year
>>>dosent matter, we've been paying that ammount for ages,
>>
>> Have you not noticed the 20-25% increase in the last 12 months or so?
>>
>> I paid 99.9 for diesel yesterday, same time last year it was about
>> 80p.
>
>Sorry, but I genuinely think it's about time there was another fuel strike,
>just to ram the message home to the robbing barsteward government!!
>Badger.
>

Given the personal cost to me of the last one I cannot agree. It
achieved nothing and hurt small businesses disproportionately. When
you've spent 20K on an exhibition stand in a deserted NEC you tend
only to have negative thoughts about bully-boys in trucks acting
without any democratic mandate. Add in the other business we lost and
frankly I'd rather cough up for the fuel.




--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70

"Tim Hobbs" <tim@spam.com> wrote in message
news:ip4rh1pkr1076p547iuoaq9sj82gabf7dc@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:33:38 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
> <brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tim Hobbs" <tim@spam.com> wrote in message
>>news:iusqh1dukojifanenvd9tj8dksr1e3e8hu@4ax.com...
>>> >when put into perspective you can see the huge increase, just because
>>> >we've
>>>>been paying the equivelent of around 6 dollars a gallon for the last
>>>>year
>>>>dosent matter, we've been paying that ammount for ages,
>>>
>>> Have you not noticed the 20-25% increase in the last 12 months or so?
>>>
>>> I paid 99.9 for diesel yesterday, same time last year it was about
>>> 80p.
>>
>>Sorry, but I genuinely think it's about time there was another fuel
>>strike,
>>just to ram the message home to the robbing barsteward government!!
>>Badger.
>>
>
> Given the personal cost to me of the last one I cannot agree. It
> achieved nothing and hurt small businesses disproportionately. When
> you've spent 20K on an exhibition stand in a deserted NEC you tend
> only to have negative thoughts about bully-boys in trucks acting
> without any democratic mandate. Add in the other business we lost and
> frankly I'd rather cough up for the fuel.

I hear and accept your comments Tim, but the only way I can see this
government backing down on fuel taxation is to hit them hard with a massive
unified public "voice". If it takes action on a scale such as bringing the
country's transportation links to a standstill, then the pressure placed
upon the government by commerce and industry would be enough to do the job,
I reckon. It was/is unfortunate that the smaller businesspeople will always
be the first to feel the pinch, but you can bet as soon as the big-guns
start to see it causing ripples to their multi-billion profits they will
apply more pressure to the government than we, the people, ever could.
Unfortunately, and I do genuinely sympathise, there are people who will be
hurt financially along the way for the "greater good". Try living in a
remote area where you have no choice of public transport, and fuel prices
that are above the national average. My local filling station is now over
£1.02 per litre of unleaded, the recent increase by the oil companies is
only a couple of pence, the rest is taxation!! And the owner of the local
station expects me to stay loyal to her, so that she doesn't go out of
business leaving only the big supermarkets to then hike all their prices up!
I' too, am self employed and if car usage drops, so does the number of
vehicles requiring me to service/repair them, so I can see both sides.
I believe that had the truckers stuck it out for another week last time
round, the government would have had no other option but to reconsider their
fuel taxation stance before anarchy descended upon them. Any ideas of
hitting the petrol stations with "don't buy from this brand for the rest of
the year" is a joke, all you are doing is ultimately putting the staff out
of a job as all the companies have mutual shared transport and supply
arrangements these days. A mate of mine is a tanker driver, running out of
Grangemouth, and he takes a BP marked lorry and fills up all brands of
tanks, including the supermarkets. Government will only take notice of
industry/commerce complaining bitterly, and the only way that will happen is
if they are financially hurt.
Badger.

In news:dfk5vj$2r2$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
Badger <brianhatton@btinternet.com> blithered:
> "Tim Hobbs" <tim@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:ip4rh1pkr1076p547iuoaq9sj82gabf7dc@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:33:38 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
>> <brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Tim Hobbs" <tim@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iusqh1dukojifanenvd9tj8dksr1e3e8hu@4ax.com...
>>>>> when put into perspective you can see the huge increase, just
>>>>> because we've
>>>>> been paying the equivelent of around 6 dollars a gallon for the
>>>>> last year
>>>>> dosent matter, we've been paying that ammount for ages,
>>>>
>>>> Have you not noticed the 20-25% increase in the last 12 months or
>>>> so? I paid 99.9 for diesel yesterday, same time last year it was about
>>>> 80p.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but I genuinely think it's about time there was another fuel
>>> strike,
>>> just to ram the message home to the robbing barsteward government!!
>>> Badger.
>>>
>>
>> Given the personal cost to me of the last one I cannot agree. It
>> achieved nothing and hurt small businesses disproportionately. When
>> you've spent 20K on an exhibition stand in a deserted NEC you tend
>> only to have negative thoughts about bully-boys in trucks acting
>> without any democratic mandate. Add in the other business we lost
>> and frankly I'd rather cough up for the fuel.
>
> I hear and accept your comments Tim, but the only way I can see this
> government backing down on fuel taxation is to hit them hard with a
> massive unified public "voice". If it takes action on a scale such as
> bringing the country's transportation links to a standstill, then the
> pressure placed upon the government by commerce and industry would be
> enough to do the job, I reckon. It was/is unfortunate that the
> smaller businesspeople will always be the first to feel the pinch,
> but you can bet as soon as the big-guns start to see it causing
> ripples to their multi-billion profits they will apply more pressure
> to the government than we, the people, ever could. Unfortunately, and
> I do genuinely sympathise, there are people who will be hurt
> financially along the way for the "greater good". Try living in a
> remote area where you have no choice of public transport, and fuel
> prices that are above the national average. My local filling station
> is now over £1.02 per litre of unleaded, the recent increase by the
> oil companies is only a couple of pence, the rest is taxation!!

Hmm. I must be out of touch. I didn't realise fuel was taxed, it has duty levied
on it which is extortionate but fixed, tax?

And
> the owner of the local station expects me to stay loyal to her, so
> that she doesn't go out of business leaving only the big supermarkets
> to then hike all their prices up! I' too, am self employed and if car
> usage drops, so does the number of vehicles requiring me to
> service/repair them, so I can see both sides. I believe that had the truckers
> stuck it out for another week last
> time round, the government would have had no other option but to
> reconsider their fuel taxation stance before anarchy descended upon
> them. Any ideas of hitting the petrol stations with "don't buy from
> this brand for the rest of the year" is a joke, all you are doing is
> ultimately putting the staff out of a job as all the companies have
> mutual shared transport and supply arrangements these days. A mate of
> mine is a tanker driver, running out of Grangemouth, and he takes a
> BP marked lorry and fills up all brands of tanks, including the
> supermarkets. Government will only take notice of industry/commerce
> complaining bitterly, and the only way that will happen is if they
> are financially hurt. Badger.



--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

GbH wrote:

> Hmm. I must be out of touch. I didn't realise fuel was taxed, it has duty levied
> on it which is extortionate but fixed, tax?

VAT goes on top of everything. Tax

Steve

"Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3o55v8F494i2U1@individual.net...

> > What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices
> > reached 3 dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars probably
> > make a V8-powered Landie seem frugal.
>
> Mind you, US gallons are *tiny*

I didn't know the difference until now actually and I'm ashamed to say
that, even after four years in England, the only gallon volume I knew was
the US one. One more reason for me to say how nice and standardised metric
values are......


Geo

In news:dfkbf0$iku$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk,
Geo <gk33@UNIOFkent.ac.uk> blithered:
> "Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3o55v8F494i2U1@individual.net...
>
>>> What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices
>>> reached 3 dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars probably
>>> make a V8-powered Landie seem frugal.
>>
>> Mind you, US gallons are *tiny*
>
> I didn't know the difference until now actually and I'm ashamed to
> say that, even after four years in England, the only gallon volume I
> knew was the US one. One more reason for me to say how nice and
> standardised metric values are......
>
>
> Geo

Lets see now, the Merkin gal weighs 8lb and the Imperial 10lb (NB decimal?) so
Merkin is 80% imperial or imperial is 25% more than Merkin.
Merkin pint is 16oz = 1lb, imperial is 20oz. Yanks can't hold their beer, small
pints you see!

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:20:29 +0100, "Geo" <gk33@UNIOFkent.ac.uk>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:3o55v8F494i2U1@individual.net...
>
>> > What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices
>> > reached 3 dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars probably
>> > make a V8-powered Landie seem frugal.
>>
>> Mind you, US gallons are *tiny*
>
>I didn't know the difference until now actually and I'm ashamed to say
>that, even after four years in England, the only gallon volume I knew was
>the US one. One more reason for me to say how nice and standardised metric
>values are......

weren't nothin' wrong with pints and gallons 'til the US lot got at 'em...
Actually, I think it's th epints that are undersized. Ours are 20 fl. oz,
US ones are 16 fl.oz.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849

In news:431dae34$0$32733$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk,
Steve Taylor <steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> blithered:
> GbH wrote:
>
>> Hmm. I must be out of touch. I didn't realise fuel was taxed, it has
>> duty levied on it which is extortionate but fixed, tax?
>
> VAT goes on top of everything. Tax
>
> Steve

Ah is that what you meant, OK, just what Value is Added?
That just means the money you use to purchase this fuel or anything else come to
that, is devalued by nearly 15%
Should call it CDT rather than VAT I reckon.

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

On or around Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:04:49 +0100, Tim Hobbs <tim@spam.com>
enlightened us thusly:
>
>Given the personal cost to me of the last one I cannot agree. It
>achieved nothing and hurt small businesses disproportionately. When
>you've spent 20K on an exhibition stand in a deserted NEC you tend
>only to have negative thoughts about bully-boys in trucks acting
>without any democratic mandate. Add in the other business we lost and
>frankly I'd rather cough up for the fuel.

While I agree with your predicament, nevertheless, the high rates of fuel
duty and vat on it affect the price of everything, and will soon put half
the hauliers out of business unless they all agree to up the rates; in which
case, foreign based trucks will come and rate-cut - they're allowed to do
internal haulage within the UK now, and by having several hundred gallons of
fuel on board, can fill up on the other side of the channel, bring a load in
on monday, do cut-rate work for a few days and head back at the end of the
week.

But, for example, if the price stays this high, or goes higher, I'll be
looking for an increase in my rate for school transport, which will put the
council tax up... that's in addition to the high price you have to pay for
the fuel If you don't have kids, tough luck - you still pay the increase in
coucnil tax...

and son on all across the board. feedback going out of control, soon, I
reckon...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849

In news:12orh1psu0cabgbrm7ds2jp8190p39gfll@4ax.com,
Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> blithered:
> On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:20:29 +0100, "Geo"
> <gk33@UNIOFkent.ac.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>> "Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:3o55v8F494i2U1@individual.net...
>>
>>>> What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices
>>>> reached 3 dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars
>>>> probably make a V8-powered Landie seem frugal.
>>>
>>> Mind you, US gallons are *tiny*
>>
>> I didn't know the difference until now actually and I'm ashamed to
>> say that, even after four years in England, the only gallon volume I
>> knew was the US one. One more reason for me to say how nice and
>> standardised metric values are......
>
> weren't nothin' wrong with pints and gallons 'til the US lot got at
> 'em... Actually, I think it's th epints that are undersized. Ours
> are 20 fl. oz, US ones are 16 fl.oz.

I can see where the Merkins arrived at a 16oz pint (1pt mrk = 1lb, cf 1l = 1kg)
but can't for the life of me understand 20oz, except that it makes a gal imp 10lb.

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:51:18 +0100, "GbH"
<Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Hmm. I must be out of touch. I didn't realise fuel was taxed, it has duty levied
>on it which is extortionate but fixed, tax?

AFAIK: cost of fuel at the pump is the price at which it's delivered, plus
the (minuscule) profit to the retailer plus duty (about 45ppl for normal u/l
or diesel) plus vat on the whole lot, at 17.5%.

removing the VAT from it would be a start. bloody rip-off, is that, paying
VAT on duty. it's debatable whether fuel should be classed as a "luxury"
and subjected to VAT anyway, never mind the duty thereon.

take off the vat from yer typical 95ppl average, you get about 80ppl, less
the duty at about 45ppl leaves 35ppl for everything/everybody between the
oil well and the gas station.


Mind, heating oil is bloody pricey: 36.27 ppl ex vat for a recent delivery
here - we used to be able to get it for about 1/3 of that much.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee"
John Donne (1571? - 1631) Devotions, XVII

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:31:24 +0100, "GbH" <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm>
wrote:

>In news:431dae34$0$32733$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk,
>Steve Taylor <steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> blithered:
>> GbH wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm. I must be out of touch. I didn't realise fuel was taxed, it has
>>> duty levied on it which is extortionate but fixed, tax?
>>
>> VAT goes on top of everything. Tax
>>
>> Steve
>
>Ah is that what you meant, OK, just what Value is Added?
>That just means the money you use to purchase this fuel or anything else come to
>that, is devalued by nearly 15%
>Should call it CDT rather than VAT I reckon.

The seller pays tax on the value he has added (or his 'markup' in
other words). The 'value' added is that you can put it in your car
from a convenient pump and buy a sausage roll while you do it, rather
than having to buy a tanker full (and make your own sausage roll).

A VAT-registered business user doesn't actually pay the VAT of course.
Just a fuel-benefit scale charge....

There's no escape.




--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70

>
>and son on all across the board. feedback going out of control, soon, I
>reckon...

Before long there'll be wars starting over oil. Oh,....


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70

Not coloured in the UK as far as i am aware, but three times cheaper than
DERV !!!!!


"Ralph A. Schmid, DK5RAS" <ralph@radio-link.net> wrote in message
news:9fiqh1ljq5jqmr7c1rlbfomdlo01f3qcq8@4ax.com...
> "StaffBull" <StaffBull@spamtrap.staffbull.net> wrote:
>
>> could you run OK on heating oil? off road of course!!!!
>
> Of course, this would be no problem. Just in case someone has a lokk
> at your fuel and finds out that it is coloured red you are in serios
> trouble! Heating oil in germany is always red...

GbH wrote:

> In news:12orh1psu0cabgbrm7ds2jp8190p39gfll@4ax.com,
> Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> blithered:
>> On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:20:29 +0100, "Geo"
>> <gk33@UNIOFkent.ac.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>
>>> "Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:3o55v8F494i2U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>>>> What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices
>>>>> reached 3 dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars
>>>>> probably make a V8-powered Landie seem frugal.
>>>>
>>>> Mind you, US gallons are *tiny*
>>>
>>> I didn't know the difference until now actually and I'm ashamed to
>>> say that, even after four years in England, the only gallon volume I
>>> knew was the US one. One more reason for me to say how nice and
>>> standardised metric values are......
>>
>> weren't nothin' wrong with pints and gallons 'til the US lot got at
>> 'em... Actually, I think it's th epints that are undersized. Ours
>> are 20 fl. oz, US ones are 16 fl.oz.
>
> I can see where the Merkins arrived at a 16oz pint (1pt mrk = 1lb, cf 1l =
> 1kg) but can't for the life of me understand 20oz, except that it makes a
> gal imp 10lb.
>

It is confusing:

http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/measures1.htm

You want the 'measuring volumes' section near the top of that page.

--
Ray

In news:ekoTe.3854$oq4.1280@newsfe5-win.ntli.net,
Ray <rayj@tau-re.org> blithered:
> GbH wrote:
>
>> In news:12orh1psu0cabgbrm7ds2jp8190p39gfll@4ax.com,
>> Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> blithered:
>>> On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:20:29 +0100, "Geo"
>>> <gk33@UNIOFkent.ac.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Richard Brookman" <newsboy@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:3o55v8F494i2U1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>>>> What really annoys me is the Americans complaining that prices
>>>>>> reached 3 dollars a gallon. A GALLON!! Mind you, their cars
>>>>>> probably make a V8-powered Landie seem frugal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mind you, US gallons are *tiny*
>>>>
>>>> I didn't know the difference until now actually and I'm ashamed to
>>>> say that, even after four years in England, the only gallon volume
>>>> I knew was the US one. One more reason for me to say how nice and
>>>> standardised metric values are......
>>>
>>> weren't nothin' wrong with pints and gallons 'til the US lot got at
>>> 'em... Actually, I think it's th epints that are undersized. Ours
>>> are 20 fl. oz, US ones are 16 fl.oz.
>>
>> I can see where the Merkins arrived at a 16oz pint (1pt mrk = 1lb,
>> cf 1l = 1kg) but can't for the life of me understand 20oz, except
>> that it makes a gal imp 10lb.
>>
>
> It is confusing:
>
> http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/measures1.htm
>
> You want the 'measuring volumes' section near the top of that page.


So I was nearly right.


--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

On or around Tue, 06 Sep 2005 22:13:02 +0100, Tim Hobbs <tim@spam.com>
enlightened us thusly:

>>
>>and son on all across the board. feedback going out of control, soon, I
>>reckon...
>
>Before long there'll be wars starting over oil. Oh,....

hmmmm.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:42:41 +0100, "StaffBull"
<StaffBull@spamtrap.staffbull.net> enlightened us thusly:

>Not coloured in the UK as far as i am aware, but three times cheaper than
>DERV !!!!!
>

bound to have chemical markers in it even if it's not coloured, though.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:33:32 +0100, Austin Shackles
<austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:

>On or around Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:42:41 +0100, "StaffBull"
><StaffBull@spamtrap.staffbull.net> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Not coloured in the UK as far as i am aware, but three times cheaper than
>>DERV !!!!!
>>
>
>bound to have chemical markers in it even if it's not coloured, though.

No need, because it's a different distillate fraction the ratio of
carbon to hydrogen is different and shows up in the exhaust gas as
such, same reason that the emission tester for lpg has to be
interpreted differently during the test.

AJH