searchengine · Oct 2, 2017

Hi,
My 2004 TD4 HSE (80.000mls) recently began suffering from vibration felt thru steering wheel and seat on idle and choppy revs between 750-2000rpm.

The first thing I done was to check for hose leaks, including vacuum leaks. No vacuum leaks found, but intercooler hose leak found, which I replaced.

The next step I took was to service the car, oil change, oil filter change, airfilter change, crankcase breather filter changed to the bmw upgrade, turbo filter replaced, fuel filter and pump replaced. While I was at it as I had low temp reading for ages I done the thermostat in line mod and replaced coolant.

No difference, so decided to get icarsoft Landrover II diagnostic scanner, and the one and only fault code was P0263 pointing to faulty no.1 fuel injector. Tested the wiring loom to all injectors with noid light and all lit up. Ran Millers additive in the fuel for a few weeks, but no difference.

Finally, got a recon injector and had it fitted... no difference same error code (P0263) and choppy revs between 750-2000 rpm.

The car runs fine after 2000rpm with plenty of power, and easily reaches 70mph+ with no misfires.

Have noticed recently if I hold the revs at exactly 1250rpm the car is extremely shakey, but a fraction below or above resolves.

If I hold the revs at 1500rpm or above and do live diagnostic check the P0263 code is not present... only when below 1500rpm.

On idle the needle sits steady at 750rpm, but live diagnostic reports it bouncing between 750-850rpm. No difference in engine sound.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

PS- EGR blanked a few years ago.

guineafowl21 · Oct 2, 2017

Since you have the scanner, check live data fuel pressures, pressure regulator duty cycle, MAF readings etc. And post them up here.

You seem to have done a lot already (!) but there’s still the HP pump and its regulator, the fuel rail pressure sensor and other to look at.

Also, who supplied the recon injector?

Nodge68 · Oct 2, 2017

I think it would be wise to get the compression checked. A persistent mis in one cylinder, could well be down to low compression in that cylinder.

searchengine · Oct 2, 2017

Nodge68...
thanks for reply. I asked local garage who fitted injector for me if cylinder had compression problem, and they said not to their knowledge. However, I obviously may need to have this investigated further.

guineafowl21..
thanks for reply. Recon injector was from British Turbo Parts. I will run live data scan and post results asap (need to take daughter to work 1st). I was thinking along the lines of fuel pressure, and unplugged the fuel pressure sensor to see how it would run on idle disconnected. It ran worse (other forum thread mentioned if ran better, try updated wire loom)... Although mine was worse, I ordered upgrade loom which I received today and just finished fitting... no difference. Reading your comment the problem may well be sensor itself, or HP pump or regulator or other.

guineafowl21 · Oct 2, 2017

searchengine said:
not to their knowledge

Hahaha. An excellent politician’s answer.

I guess it means “we didn’t check”, which is fair enough for a suspected injector fault.

searchengine · Oct 2, 2017

guineafowl21.. sure is typical garage response.

Scanner results with engine warmed up and sitting at idle..

.

guineafowl21 · Oct 2, 2017

Other than your temp seeming a bit high and your low pressure supply a bit low, I can’t see much wrong with those readings. Was the new fuel pump a genuine one?

A few suggestions:
1. Make the engine run as choppily as possible and unplug the injectors one by one.
2. Leakback test.
3. Replace the fuel pressure regulator O-ring (only £10).
4. If you have lots of time and energy, swap injectors 1 and 4 and see if the fault moves.
5. Compression check.

searchengine · Oct 3, 2017

guineafowl21...

Thanks for reply to scan results. New fuel pump is not genuine LR. Initial p0263 code existed when original LR pump was installed, and again with replacement aftermarket pump.

When engine is on idle, and I unplug injectors one by one, all run noticeably worse including injector no.1, but the car does not stall... the car does not start with any of the 4 injectors unplugged.

No coolant level drop, no engine oil level change over past several weeks.

Although it's possible that recon injector is faulty, I'm beginning to doubt that my original injector or the recon replacement are faulty. Both injectors run in exact dame way with exact same error code. The recon units are calibrated to OEM original specification on a Rabotti test bench, and have 12 month warranty.

I will undertake your suggestions 1-5 and post outcome.

Skinny Mike · Oct 3, 2017

Just a quick one.
Have you tried running with the MAF unplugged?
Mike

searchengine · Oct 3, 2017

Skinny Mike...
Thanks for comment. Yep, have tried that, and also cleaned MAF with crc mass airflow cleaner just in case. Also cleaned Air Temp Sensor on intake hose.

Skinny Mike · Oct 3, 2017

So the high temperature, this can be caused by over filling with oil, it's quite easy to miss the full mark and fill to the bobbly bit, easy to check.
I personally don't think it's the pumps ( but wouldn't rule it out) as a pump under load usually runs worse than when on tick over if faulty.
I would think it's the injector, or how it's been fitted. Maybe over tightened, or even one fitted from an auto that's causing a miss match.
Maybe get back in touch with the supplier and question the part.
Would it be possible to post a video of the engine on tick over? Filmed from the engine bay and from the exhaust. This might get the " oh mine did that" response.
Mike

Skinny Mike · Oct 3, 2017

Ah, just reread, it's not a genuine pump. Unless you can confirm it's an OEM item the pump is back in the mix.
Mike

searchengine · Oct 3, 2017

Mike...
I will re-check the oil level and make sure it's not over full. When original LR pump was fitted, I had the injector fault code, but yes as the replacement pump is not LR I cannot rule out having to replace it. I've ordered HP fuel pump regulator repair o ring and will see if it helps. Also ordered a cheap leakback test kit to test injectors on crank, and with running engine.

The recon injector has the same part number as the injector it replaced, but on looking at the position of the injectors, I feel that
the replaced injector is sitting a few mm higher than the others. Can't be the old seal washer left installed as the garage returned my old injector including the copper seal washer.

I will link a video of engine tickover and exhaust when leakback test kit arrives.

George

guineafowl21 · Oct 3, 2017

I was just wondering if the wrong injector had been installed, given that auto Td4 ones are different from the manual ones. But if the part no.s are the same, that’s not the case.

I wonder if the injector seat was cleaned properly before installation?

Does your icarsoft not do injector balance readings at idle?

Just to clarify, injector no.1 is at the timing end, ie the right hand side of the engine as you sit in the driver’s seat. Mistakes of this sort have been made!

EDIT: Sorry, Skinny Mike, I didn’t spot your post where you’ve said much the same thing.

searchengine · Oct 3, 2017

Guys...

I've checked the engine oil level from cold and level was a few mm above the max line, but nowhere near the bobble. Drained a little oil off and now the oil is a few mm below the max fill line. Before I done the inline thermostat mod my heaters were so so and
temp gauge needle sat between 10 and 11 o'clock... since the mod temp gauge goes to 12 o'clock position and fluctuates between there and 11.30 o'clock, and heaters are good.

Looking at injectors I think the recon is seated at the same height as the others (similar thread space exposed on all injectors). Looking from the oil cap side across the injectors the recon injector looks higher than the others, but looking from the battery side the recon injector looks lower than the others. Looking from the front all injectors look even in height. Part no. on all injectors including recon 0445110049

Unsure if icarsoft scanner does injector balance readings at idle, will check.

Will post a video asap.

Nodge68 · Oct 3, 2017

Icarsoft doesn't do injector compensation or balance.

I still the it prudent to eliminate low compression in that cylinder.

guineafowl21 · Oct 3, 2017

Nodge68 said:
Icarsoft doesn't do injector compensation or balance.

I still the it prudent to eliminate low compression in that cylinder.

It’s looking horribly like a compression problem, as you say. Would that be a job for a diesel specialist?

GrumpyGel · Oct 3, 2017

This error "Contribution/Balance Fault" looks to be saying that Cyl 1 is behaving differently to the others. I've had a scan through the forum and the error has been reported a few times, but only 1 resolution - which was a faulty injector. I haven't searched for the P0266, P0269 or P0272 codes relating to the other cylinders - might be worth a look.

Out in the big wide world I found this on a VAG diesel forum...

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/p0272-cylinder-4-contribution-balance-fault.24808/

Its only a small thread, but 1 person says the glow plug returned compression levels to the ECU (which I believe is probably a red herring) and another person says the ECU monitors the crank speed...

Code P0272 is triggered when the Engine Control Module (ECM) detects that the acceleration rate of the crankshaft for Cylinder 4 was less than a calibrated amount. During normal conditions the Engine Control Module (ECM) turns the Fuel Injectors ON and OFF in the Fuel Injection System.

As Nodge says, quite likely due to compression issues and a compression test is probably a good idea. I'd also consider moving your replacement injector to another cylinder and see if the problem moves with it.

If compression comes back as good, and assuming the same monitoring is happening on the TD4 as this VAG description, I'm also wondering the the Crank Position Sensor or Cam Position Sensor is is faulty. The ECU would be fueling at the wrong times, detecting a lack of response and getting thoroughly confused. However, you say above that while the rev counter shows 750rpm, the live feed shows it bouncing between 750-850rpm - this would indicate to me that most cylinders are powering the crank at 750, but there's a 850 blip. If the compression was low on 1 cylinder, you would expect a live feed showing, for example, 650-750rpm when 1 is low on compression. Just a thought that maybe the crank/cam position is being read wrongly.

searchengine · Oct 3, 2017

Done a video to try to capture sounds etc... exhaust box looks a bit ratty.
Temp down a bit since draining a little engine oil.

Will get garage compression test done at end of week if HP Fuel Pump regulator o ring does not help.

Skinny Mike · Oct 3, 2017

You really, really need to do a compression test. That's missing badly on one cylinder.
So either the injector is duff, right sound at engine, wrong sound at exhaust.
Or you have a cylinder problem, hard to say at engine, I'd bet money in it hearing the exhaust.
Mike

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads