Hi all,

When I say 'all good' clearly it isn't, or i wouldn't be posting. I've checked all the other threads in the search, and think this is different.

Landy was parked in a field for 6 months, which I know is bad. When I parked it starter worked fine. When I went to move it with a new battery, got the solenoid click but nowt else. Bumped it, and it ran.

So now, about 99 times in 100 the starter won't turn, just get the click. When it does turn it grinds out pretty slow and noisy, then picks up and fires. Doesn't make any difference if clutch is in or out, and when it is running gearbox seems fine, changes gear ok, and engages / disengages fine.

Thought it maight be starter motor, so got a new one.
Thought it might be battery so fitted a new one.
Thought it might be starter solenoid, so fitted a new one.
Thought it might be earth strap. so removed it and cleaned and replaced.

But it is still unchanged. Tried bypassing solenoid, no difference, tried attache jump leads direct to live lead, and earth on the starter. Still nothing.

Took starter out, repeated the jumps and it span up. So not only is it new, its passed the bench test.

Tried the ignition circuit wiring by attaching a test lamp to the live on the starter motor, and negative to the earth strap where it joins the starter motor. When I turn the ignition key .... the test lamp lights up.

So to summarise, I think the ignition circuit is ok as the test lamp lights on the points of the starter motor when it should. I think the starter motor is ok as it is new, and it passed the bench test. The wiring is all basically ok, as 1 in 100 it spins up slowly at first and then fires, and then if I stop the engine, and try to restart it a couple of hours later, it spins up ok.

But if I leave it overnight we are back to it not spinning the starter. Just clicking the solenoid. And even when i attach the jumps direct to the starter while it is installed it isn't turning.

I can't tell if its an intermittent electric fault, but I don't think so and can't think what / where it would be. I suspect that for some reason the flywheel is refusing to turn, but the clutch is fine, the gearbox seems to work as normal.

Any thoughts / help gratefully received. This is driving me spare.

Gary

You say new battery,are you sure it's ok as it seems like it is running down with time. I would try turning on headlights then try it if battery no good they will dim.

Hi,

Battery is definitely fine. Not only is it a brand new fully charged one, but have also run it off jump leads. As I say, first 99 attempts it just clicks and then it turns.

Try an earth lead from the battery to the engine - not the chassis. I've had an extra earth added in the past presumably because the return via the chassis and radiator mount to the battery was high resistance somewhere in the join between the chassis (very corroded) and rad mount.
If that doesn't fix it the only other thoughts are corrosion in the live or earth cable joins where the connectors are attached, breaks in the live/earth cables under the insulation or high resistance in the low current feed to the solenoid preventing it from operating properly. Is any of the wiring getting hot, 'cos that's where excess resistance will be!

have you checked the main cable from the battery to starter motor, i had one that looked ok but on closer inspection it was broken and there was only about three strands of wire trying to carry all them amps,

Hi,

thanks for comments. Tried taking the earth via jump leads direct from the starter motor earthed mounting bolt to the chassis, and also we tried hooking up to a running van. By which I mean we applied red jump lead to the live connector on the starter direct to the battery on the van, and the black lead to the bolt on the starter housing that the earth comes off direct to the -ve terminal on the van battery.

In effect we passed all the landy electrics and just connected it to a strong battery, but still the motor didn't turn.

We also disconnected and checked the heavy duty cables from battery to solenoid, from the solenoid to the starter. All were in good nick, no damage, and good connections. We also left the ignition system wired up, and shorted with the lead from the +ve battery direct to the live connection on the starter, and from the battery side connector on the solenoid to the live connection on the starter motor.

Also as we attached the test lamp across live on the starter to earth on the starter, and when the key was turned the lamp lit, but the starter didn't turn. Hence I'm thinking the flywheel is being jammed - partially. We also made the same circuit with the starter not inserted into the engine and all the above caused the starter to turn. So with the exact same connectivity, the starter turns not installed, but turns fine on the bench.

have you checked the flywheel teeth for damage and the correct number of teeth on the starter to suite your landy,try rocking it in gear to position the starter teeth on a different portion of the fly wheel and then try starting it (OUT OF GEAR)

Hi,

Thanks I havent tried checking the flywheel teeth but I will do so today. Did try rocking the landy in 4th gear, but didnt seem to make much difference.

I'll check the teeth and come back.

My working assumption at the moment is that the engine isn't turning freely and that is the problem but I will check the teeth and go over the electrics again.

Has anyone got any ways of testing if the engine isn't turning as freely as it should? Is there such a thing as a 'partially seized' engine?

Hi,

Ok so an update. Just tried starting it and it still just clicked at the solenoid. Put it into 4th gear and rocked it, and there was a metallic click from the starter motor area. Trying it again and it turned over fine.

So i think that is the culprit. For some reason the starter dog is sticking when the car is left. As it is a new starter motor, any idea's why it may be sticking? It seems unlikely to me that it is missing teeth on the flywheel and we will get the starter off and check the flywheel but any suggestions as to what mught cause a good starter motor to bind onto the flywheel?

Thanks. Nearly getting there - thanks for your comments!

The symptoms you have recently discovered would suggest a sticky bendix gear on the starter - it should all turn and move backwards and forwards reasonably freely, but it sounds like it's not disengaging after starting the motor. Possibly the starter ring is gunged up with crud or there's gunge or damage preventing the starter from seating in properly square.

Thanks Oxides,

We will take the starter out again to check the flywheel, and make sure the starter is mating properly to the housing. I must admit we hadn't checked that but I can see it would have an effect. I suspect the bendix is ok as the symptons we had were in place on the old starter I took out 3 days ago and on the new one but am going to check it all again anyway.

.

not sure what your starter teeth should be think its 9 for petrol and 11 for diesels s2/s3 sure some one will confirm this to be right or incorrect

Hi so had the starter off again and it is mating properly now, whether it was I'm not 100% sure. It isn't doing the clicking anymore, but it is doing quite a few spins of the starter without spinning the engine over. Stupidly forgot to check the flywheel while I had the starter motor off for damage, but any ideas what could be causing it to spin without engaging, just that whirring sound?

Again, this is still with the brand new starter motor from a landy main dealer so should be ok.

Missing teeth on the flywheel or the wrong starter - does the bendix push the starter cog out as far as the old one did?