suew said:
I cant believe I'm actually reading this :eek:

Totally irresponsible of anyone to expect you lot to take such a risk in these circumstances. Might have been different if they were at risk of drowning, but even then its not worth someone elses life. And I am a horse owner.

A mare, even with a foal, out at grass will survive. If they are tough enough to live out then a few days without hay would not be the end of the world. Wild horses manage well enough.

The horses in this clip survived until feed could be delivered (by boat) not Landy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRc3Ev05QiM
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ive only just seen the thread and also cant quite beleive it.

not only will a horse survive several days without food,
but in a situation where livestock has to be fed or rescued the first people to turn to are the local farmers, not only have they got far better equipment than any landrover , theyve got local knowledge and most likely hay as well.
 
I somehow get the idea that the initial panic from the poor chap was female induced wibble/crisis or he is only about 12 and its his first pony.
 
chunkymunky said:
Once you are into deep water that's rescue.
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A very specific type of rescue and not something you should try to bluff your way through. It is far too easy to wind up dead.

The time to recover a live body is so slim, pretty much anyone washed away will be recovered dead. 10 minutes unsighted is considered dead to us. Very rarely do you ever come across someone alive if they've been missing in water for over 10 minutes.

LZIR shouldn't partake in water based rescues. It isn't worth the risk, all you're going to do is increase the body count. Maybe it shows that I've had water rescue training and that I've seen what can go wrong. But we have 3 levels of lives to consider when going near water, in this order.

Me.
The team.
The casualty.

Will what I'm about to do put me in danger? Yes? Do not proceed.
Will what I'm about to do put the team in danger? Yes? Do not proceed.
Will what I'm about to do put the casualty in danger? Yes? Do not proceed.

The final step can become an infinite loop if inaction will risk their life and action will risk their life. But ultimately it boils down to how much danger are you putting yourself in. What have you got to risk? A lot of people on here have families. Make sure you can return home to them.
 
true unless its like that poor lad in hull i think were the emergency services were so scared of h/s ****e he died with foot caught in grate ,or in my local coast guards were local bloke with 40 years of experience of the local shore has to ring a young lad with 2 weeks training course for advice befor going on the beach in norfolk
 
jamesmartin said:
true unless its like that poor lad in hull i think were the emergency services were so scared of h/s ****e he died with foot caught in grate ,or in my local coast guards were local bloke with 40 years of experience of the local shore has to ring a young lad with 2 weeks training course for advice befor going on the beach in norfolk
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There was nothing that could be done to free him in time. They tried everything they could, but didn't have the tools. There were cries that they should've cut his leg off to free him. Scuba surgery? Why the hell not? Oh right, he'd have probably bled out before they finished the job or died of infection. The crews weren't equipped for the job, the kit was being rushed across the country, but inevitably came too late. Yes, there was H/S involved, but it was more along the lines of "if you try that you'll kill him or yourself, don't be a daft cock." Not the bubble wrapped "you'll cut your finger if you do that, we can't allow it" everyone imagines when you mention H/S.

The latter part isn't something I know much about, but sounds ludicrous. If that is the sort of people the Coasties hire, it explains a lot. Mostly why a chap I work with (he is RNLI) cannot stand them.

[edit: Something a chap in the local Fire putter outers told me on a joint exercise was they can use their BAs as makeshift scuba equipment, but what they have been told is if they EVER try it, they better pull out the cas alive to a heroes welcome, or they better find a new job. Although officially they should NEVER use their BAs for scuba gear or they'll need a new job regardless.]
 
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Bix said:
There was nothing that could be done to free him in time. They tried everything they could, but didn't have the tools. There were cries that they should've cut his leg off to free him. Scuba surgery? Why the hell not? Oh right, he'd have probably bled out before they finished the job or died of infection. The crews weren't equipped for the job, the kit was being rushed across the country, but inevitably came too late. Yes, there was H/S involved, but it was more along the lines of "if you try that you'll kill him or yourself, don't be a daft cock." Not the bubble wrapped "you'll cut your finger if you do that, we can't allow it" everyone imagines when you mention H/S.

The latter part isn't something I know much about, but sounds ludicrous. If that is the sort of people the Coasties hire, it explains a lot. Mostly why a chap I work with (he is RNLI) cannot stand them.

[edit: Something a chap in the local Fire putter outers told me on a joint exercise was they can use their BAs as makeshift scuba equipment, but what they have been told is if they EVER try it, they better pull out the cas alive to a heroes welcome, or they better find a new job. Although officially they should NEVER use their BAs for scuba gear or they'll need a new job regardless.]
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No you can't. Different systems entirely. The ba kit I use for confined spaces can. Fire systems work on a forced air basis. Water can get in. Rescue system I use sucks to face. But even then it's not for deep water.
 
Bix said:
There was nothing that could be done to free him in time. They tried everything they could, but didn't have the tools. There were cries that they should've cut his leg off to free him. Scuba surgery? Why the hell not? Oh right, he'd have probably bled out before they finished the job or died of infection. The crews weren't equipped for the job, the kit was being rushed across the country, but inevitably came too late. Yes, there was H/S involved, but it was more along the lines of "if you try that you'll kill him or yourself, don't be a daft cock." Not the bubble wrapped "you'll cut your finger if you do that, we can't allow it" everyone imagines when you mention H/S.

The latter part isn't something I know much about, but sounds ludicrous. If that is the sort of people the Coasties hire, it explains a lot. Mostly why a chap I work with (he is RNLI) cannot stand them.

[edit: Something a chap in the local Fire putter outers told me on a joint exercise was they can use their BAs as makeshift scuba equipment, but what they have been told is if they EVER try it, they better pull out the cas alive to a heroes welcome, or they better find a new job. Although officially they should NEVER use their BAs for scuba gear or they'll need a new job regardless.]
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why not there are plenty of people who have cut their own arms feet off to save their lives ,not surgery ,but he may of died of infection or blood loss but not so likely now but at least hed have had the best chance,im not against h/s per-say just covering our own arse rather than result base ,or removing common sense and experience to replace it with someone who is trying to justify a job when the rules written years ago covered the safety aspect and their just delving into the ridiculous
 
no bod in an office can make up detailed h~&s rules for every possible scenario.... its got to be left for the blokes on the ground to assess given the circumstances , available resources, personal capabilities etc ...
general guidlines , should be enough
 
jamesmartin said:
why not there are plenty of people who have cut their own arms feet off to save their lives ,not surgery ,but he may of died of infection or blood loss but not so likely now but at least hed have had the best chance,im not against h/s per-say just covering our own arse rather than result base ,or removing common sense and experience to replace it with someone who is trying to justify a job when the rules written years ago covered the safety aspect and their just delving into the ridiculous
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Sounds like somone died dispite the best efforts of the emergency services.
 
chunkymunky said:
Seconded. At the end of the day what we are good at is pulling people out of mud, ditches, snow. Once you are into deep water that's rescue.

It does give me a little cause for concern. Obviously where I am is some distance from others on the list. With Worcester, upton on Severn and Tewksbury being serious flood areas if I am called upon its gonna be pretty lonely. Pretty understaffed between Worcester and Gloucester .
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Hmm odd that! Was told couple o years ago by Gloucester4x4 response "we have all the help we need ta" :(

So I tend to potter about and rescue folk as I find em lol

I could really do with a co-pilot or two though, to keep in touch with LZIR and or Volunteer 4x4 Owners Rescue/Recovery :)
 
:nopics: i have a speed boat and a wakeboard that would have done the job.

also really sorry guys im running really behind on the building of the ark, what with lack of workforce and trade union rules etc the ark has slowly gained its stucture. Am in a search for monkeys to help before i get a stampede of animals coming in two by 2 (hurrah). :D

220px-Evanark.jpg



sorry again.

Noah
 
Bromsgrove Defender said:
Hmm odd that! Was told couple o years ago by Gloucester4x4 response "we have all the help we need ta" :(

So I tend to potter about and rescue folk as I find em lol

I could really do with a co-pilot or two though, to keep in touch with LZIR and or Volunteer 4x4 Owners Rescue/Recovery :)
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Well I am not too far from you.
 
5ft of water ive had our Atlantic 75 in less and our Trent class offshore lifeboat in 6ft of water!!!!!!! Far too deep for a wagon on an open course ( unlike a pay and play site) about 18 inch of water can and will knock some one off their feet let alone on uneven ever changing ground, thats why the RNLI has specialised Flood rescue crews as us Normal Coast crews are not trained in Flood / swift water rescue as its a complete different ball game. You wounding get an F1 driver doing the Dakar right off the cuff !!
 
i have only just realise my name has come up a few time in this, just to let you all know i am home safe after being rescued by the fire service after floating down the river in my arm bands
 
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