Ta :)

Yes that was my plan. If it doesn’t work out, new handles are available... my door handle failed in the exact same way, but the tin worms have been hungry - so if sorting one problem, might as was well sort the other!
 
With the re-emergence of the three amigos (again!) and the problem being identified as being the other front (nearside this time) ABS sensor I had attempted to remove the old one. It was the original, 18 year old Wabco sensor.
It would not pull out.

Once again it was time to strip down the upright and hub. The lower ball joint taper was a pain (again) and the rubber boot tore. A replacement is on order.

On removing the upright and withdrawing the drive shaft, the reluctor ring fell off. The metal under the ring had corroded and blistered and the ring itself had cracked in two places...

5218377D-293D-4399-80B1-10A59CABB005.jpeg


Looking at the inner face of the dead sensor indicated it had been in contact with the sensor ring:


D6593262-DDF9-4D61-8A20-26C17246C7E7.jpeg


This was never coming out in an easy way!

40 minutes later, after mounting a substantial fight, the remnants of the sensor eventually came out.

240C6933-70BB-49F1-ADB7-36571DF39D32.jpeg


Luckily I have a replacement relictor ring and sensor, but waiting for the new gaiter means the job can’t be finished properly today. Argh. Oh well...
 
As an addendum, the inner face of the upright has quite a ridge worn in it - likely from the expanded reluctor ring - quite a ridge is palpable...

2DF0724E-DAD5-437D-814A-624CF360C684.jpeg
 
This theory is supported by looking at the old, damaged ring - where rust had built up underneath, the outer surface was bright and scored, where it had been rubbing against the inner surface of the hub carrier:


4E7C8776-E8F8-4905-B9FA-627B48627EA5.jpeg


So a double problem, and just as well I removed the hub!!!
 
Good work Rob. This issue with reluctor rings is probably why LR moved to the ring in bearing design of the later FL1.
 
Jeepers, there's a lot of rust in those pics.:eek:

Interesting that they still used Wabco sensors with the Teves Mk20 ABS.
 
GrumpyGel said:
Jeepers, there's a lot of rust in those pics.:eek:
Click to expand...

It's this country's reliance on salt in the winter, which is responsible GG, but I'm sure you know that already. ;)

The sensors are basically a "whatever fits" kinda deal. The ABS ECU will still see them, as long as they're in the same spec range.

Only the later active sensors are different on the FL1.
 
Last edited:
GrumpyGel said:
Jeepers, there's a lot of rust in those pics.:eek:

Interesting that they still used Wabco sensors with the Teves Mk20 ABS.
Click to expand...
It looks as though the car spent a load of time in the sea to be honest! The first owner lived up in Yorkshire, so I guess a lot of winter salt exposure despite low miles when I bought it....

spent a couple of hours yesterday scraping off the worst of the scabby corrosion and will splash some black smoothrite on it before refitting. Might do that to the drive shaft too before fitting the new reluctor ring.
 
Nodge68 said:
Good work Rob. This issue with reluctor rings is probably why LR moved to the ring in bearing design of the later FL1.
Click to expand...
That might well be the explanation - are the later ones have the teeth machined/cast into the drive shaft flange? Any type where the ring is added is going to be prone to the same issues I fear, but I get the impression that face lift FL1s are more reliable in this respect. Or is it that they're just younger?
 
rob_bell said:
are the later ones have the teeth machined/cast into the drive shaft flange?
Click to expand...

No. The bearing has a magnetic shield side, with lots of poles. This is much more reliable, and the way pretty much all modern car ABS systems detect wheel rotation.
 
Last edited:
Ah yes! I'd read that before, but completely forgot! LOL I guess the magnets are inserted into the drive shaft flange? Should be very stable - but probably more expensive to manufacture... (hence why they haven't always been done this way?)
 
That's very helpful, thanks! I hadn't realised it was incorporated into the bearing itself? Very neat - and would that make it feasible to retro-fit? Not that I am planning to do this, but really a curiosity question :)
 
rob_bell said:
That's very helpful, thanks! I hadn't realised it was incorporated into the bearing itself? Very neat - and would that make it feasible to retro-fit? Not that I am planning to do this, but really a curiosity question :)
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure they don't work with the sensors on the older cars - so you'd have to swap the whole ABS system - which presumably is tied into the CAN systems - so not without a whole heap of work. You'd probably end up taking the whole looms and ECUs of a 2002+ car!
 
rob_bell said:
That's very helpful, thanks! I hadn't realised it was incorporated into the bearing itself? Very neat
Click to expand...
It's the way most cars after about 2003 were done. It solved the ABS rings problem completely, and is probably cheaper to do too.
rob_bell said:
and would that make it feasible to retro-fit? Not that I am planning to do this, but really a curiosity question
Click to expand...
A lot of work, due to the more thorough CAN integration of the later cars. It would be easy to get a later car IMHO. I've got 2004 1.8 for sale if you're interested. :D
GrumpyGel said:
I'm pretty sure they don't work with the sensors on the older cars - so you'd have to swap the whole ABS system - which presumably is tied into the CAN systems - so not without a whole heap of work. You'd probably end up taking the whole looms and ECUs of a 2002+ car!
Click to expand...
It's possible, but not practical to do.;)
 
I'm sure that's right! I guess it depends on how many pulses per rotation of wheel you'd get - the ECU may not be bothered about what sensor is used, so long as it can "understand" the signals it receives :) Like I say, I've no interest in doing this, just curious! :)
 
Nodge68 said:
A lot of work, due to the more thorough CAN integration of the later cars. It would be easy to get a later car IMHO. I've got 2004 1.8 for sale if you're interested. :D
Click to expand...
It's a posher model than mine, but I'd get shot if I bought yet another car! There's a couple of cars on the fleet that now need to be sold off (and that's a wrench, because they've all been superb)
 
rob_bell said:
I'm sure that's right! I guess it depends on how many pulses per rotation of wheel you'd get - the ECU may not be bothered about what sensor is used, so long as it can "understand" the signals it receives :) Like I say, I've no interest in doing this, just curious! :)
Click to expand...
Its not just the number of pulses - the pulses themselves are different. I think the Wabco and Teves Mk20 use AC currents while the Mk25 uses DC currents.
 
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