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v8burbling

New Member
Having just fitted my recored radiator, I thought I'd inspect the thermostat. It was jammed shut solid so will be replaced but I also noticed that the hoses and the insides of the thermostat housing and the thermostat itself are covered in a deep red / burgandy coloured deposit. It looks too deep red to be rust. What else could have caused this ? Can you get red antifreeze or is this a deposit from a rad flush or rad-weld product ?
Also, what's the best way of getting rid of it ? Note I have already flushed with water before dismantling so that didn't shift it.

See attached pictures.

Thanks
 

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v8burbling said:
Having just fitted my recored radiator, I thought I'd inspect the thermostat. It was jammed shut solid so will be replaced but I also noticed that the hoses and the insides of the thermostat housing and the thermostat itself are covered in a deep red / burgandy coloured deposit. It looks too deep red to be rust. What else could have caused this ? Can you get red antifreeze or is this a deposit from a rad flush or rad-weld product ?
Also, what's the best way of getting rid of it ? Note I have already flushed with water before dismantling so that didn't shift it.

See attached pictures.

Thanks
Click to expand...

All thermostats are jammed solid shut until they get hot and open. Did you try it in boiling water? Don't know what the deposit is never seen one that bad to be honest.
 
Ironite or other leak sealing compound ?????

Highly unlikely to be rust as almost all the materials that the coolant is in contact with is aluminium.
 
Irishrover said:
Ironite or other leak sealing compound ?????

Highly unlikely to be rust as almost all the materials that the coolant is in contact with is aluminium.
Click to expand...

Certainly looks like some form of sealant additive....
 
I had a layer of crap that colour on the inside of my engine bay, over various bits before i swapped my engine. Turned out to be the rad cores disintegrating so had it re-conditioned. I think the cores were causing a lot of dust that colour which was coating anything oily as there was oil and coolant leaking all over the place.
 
looks like holts wonderweld to me ,its added to engines with cracked blocks and cylinder head problems,ive seen it in a few p38 v8s, my mate used it when he had a slipped liner problem and it worked except everything in the water system is stained red.looks like red industrial floor paint imo
 
you can get red coolant , its the oat 5 year stuff normally.

now you have come this far your better off cleaning it all and refilling and running her and see how she goes before you get too worried :D
 
wil2813 said:
looks like holts wonderweld to me ,its added to engines with cracked blocks and cylinder head problems,ive seen it in a few p38 v8s, my mate used it when he had a slipped liner problem and it worked except everything in the water system is stained red.looks like red industrial floor paint imo
Click to expand...

What he says...

Defo 'Wonderweld'.... it doesn't mix with antifreeze and will clog just about every passageway its been down with antifreeze:eek:
'orrible stuff
 
Used to be an old trick to use Cayenne pepper in rads as a stop leak never heard of it for years though. Me old grandpappy use to do it. To be honest that's what it looks like to me.
 
wammers said:
All thermostats are jammed solid shut until they get hot and open. Did you try it in boiling water? Don't know what the deposit is never seen one that bad to be honest.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the replies guys, good to get the benefit of all that
experience. Next question then is how can I flush the engine block and heater matrix core to clear all that red stuff out before it contaminates my new thermostat and recored radiator ? Going to flush with mains pressure cold water again, this time with the thermostat out. Any other ideas ?

Wammers, I did know the thermo was supposed to be shut. What I meant was that it was stuck shut. I did do the pan of water thing. Didn't have a thermometer to measure the water temp, but used water straight from the kettle into a pre-warmed small pan, so should have stayed above 82deg. I might try literally boiling it on the hob next. In any case the thermo didn't open until it was forced. There was a lot of hard black deposit around the edge of the valve and once I'd chipped that off, it could be opened with a screwdriver. It still wouldn't open in the hot water though.

Still for £3 ish, makes sense to replace. Trouble is not sure which thermo I need as the ones Rimmer sells for a 1973 RR or an SD1 V8 (the engine donator) don't look quite the same and have poppet valves in. The gasket for a 355 RR engine looks right but my engine is a 10A... from an SD1 and that gasket only has 2 bolt holes instead of 3.:confused:
 
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v8burbling said:
Thanks for all the replies guys, good to get the benefit of all that
experience. Next question then is how can I flush the engine block and heater matrix core to clear all that red stuff out before it contaminates my new thermostat and recored radiator ? Going to flush with mains pressure cold water again, this time with the thermostat out. Any other ideas ?

Fett, I did know the thermo was supposed to be shut. What I meant was that it was stuck shut. I did do the pan of water thing. Didn't have a thermometer to measure the water temp, but used water straight from the kettle into a pre-warmed small pan, so should have stayed above 82deg. I might try literally boiling it on the hob next. In any case the thermo didn't open until it was forced. There was a lot of hard black deposit around the edge of the valve and once I'd chipped that off, it could be opened with a screwdriver. It still wouldn't open in the hot water though.

Still for £3 ish, makes sense to replace. Trouble is not sure which thermo I need as the ones Rimmer sells for a 1973 RR or an SD1 V8 (the engine donator) don't look quite the same and have poppet valves in. The gasket for a 355 RR engine looks right but my engine is a 10A... from an SD1 and that gasket only has 2 bolt holes instead of 3.:confused:
Click to expand...

Little poppet valve is air bleed as long as it has one it will be fine. Think you need an 84 degree stat for that engine.
 
Why an air bleed in a water system - to release trapped gas?
I thought it was to allow a bit through the system when the thermostat is closed because the water pump is running all the time.

Incidentally, does anyone have a 'circuit diagram' for the water system in the RR. I'd like to know where water should be coming from when I'm flushing and where it shouldn't be coming from if you know what I mean. Plus I see the two small pipes from the back of the water pump running into the manifold but where do they go from there and how does it connect to the ones to the heater matrix core ?
 
Hope the attached helps....
 

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v8burbling said:
Why an air bleed in a water system - to release trapped gas?
I thought it was to allow a bit through the system when the thermostat is closed because the water pump is running all the time.

Incidentally, does anyone have a 'circuit diagram' for the water system in the RR. I'd like to know where water should be coming from when I'm flushing and where it shouldn't be coming from if you know what I mean. Plus I see the two small pipes from the back of the water pump running into the manifold but where do they go from there and how does it connect to the ones to the heater matrix core ?
Click to expand...

How would you fill the block if there was no way of air getting past the thermostat? Water pump will mill when there is no circulation. If it's concreation you won't flush it out anyway. Maybe if you filled it with a caustic soda mix and left it to stand for a day or so it might free it up. Try mixing some up and dropping old stat in it and view the results before you do that. The jiggle valve should be fitted uppermost on refit of thermostat.
 
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wammers said:
How would you fill the block if there was no way of air getting past the thermostat?
Click to expand...

Good point but then the thermostat I had fitted didn't have a valve so how does that work ?

wammers said:
Water pump will mill when there is no circulation.
Click to expand...

Can you explain "mill" more please, sorry for being thick.

Thought of using citric acid or similar but no knowing what it'll do to the radiator or the engine block afterwards. Am also wondering what condition the water pump is likely to be in.
 
v8burbling said:
Good point but then the thermostat I had fitted didn't have a valve so how does that work ?



Can you explain "mill" more please, sorry for being thick.

Thought of using citric acid or similar but no knowing what it'll do to the radiator or the engine block afterwards. Am also wondering what condition the water pump is likely to be in.
Click to expand...


Don't know, you don't see many with them in anymore. But that is what they are for i can assure you. A proper stat for your engine will have one. The water pump will just turn, milling the water around it. It cannot pump anything anywhere if the outlet from the block is sealed by the thermostat. That is what the thermostat is there for. (A) To allow the engine to warm up quickly, by stopping coolant flow, until the coolant in the block has reached sufficient temperature to open it, allowing circulation through the radiator for cooling purposes. (B) To maintain a constant temperature in the engine. The thermostat does not just open and that is it. After initial temp is reached and water begins to circulate it will close and open several times to allow all the coolant to reach the same temperature. Then maintain that temperature by opening and closing partially as cooled water enters the engine from the radiator. So it's a constant cycle not just open or shut.
 
wammers said:
Don't know, you don't see many with them in anymore. But that is what they are for i can assure you. A proper stat for your engine will have one. The water pump will just turn, milling the water around it. It cannot pump anything anywhere if the outlet from the block is sealed by the thermostat.
Click to expand...

Interesting Wammers thanks,
I understand how the thermo works with the system. Hadn't realised that the water pump could 'mill' as you put it, not having taken one apart....yet. The water can still circulate through the heads and the heater matrix whilst the thermo is closed though, right ?

How is air expelled from the system ? If air goes past the thermo on my RR, it looks like it would end up in the top hose, which appears to be the highest point. Presume the water pump will push it round a bit on higher revs but where can it get out. I read something about making sure one of the smaller hoses is water free when you refill, is that to allow air out ?
 
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