Stuballsed
New Member
My head hurts, even trying, and failing miserably, to understand that lot,
Tis simple. It's all about the angle of your dangle and how many holes you want to use at the same time
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
i had been thinking about it yersterday ,the more i thought the less i was sure ,so went to see maths proff next door and the best simple explanation he gave me was that with triangle rope ,a pulley effect is given so that more sideways force is applied than with 2 single ropes so op is right , probably wont stop me using single rope towing trucks around the yard for praticable reasons ,but i have learnt something so cheers for that
khaos
New Member
I totally agree with you and this is an argument I've had many times. I use a single eye on my steering guard at a time. I've seen eyes bent inwards before. I know each eye will take enough weight so I just use one. A way around this would be make the rope so long that the inward pull is negligible but the vector of the forces will still always point inwards.
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Khaos I think you missed what they have been arguing about. If you use a single rope or bridal across them your less likley to bend your tow points. if you put a shackel on both mounts and run a length of rope through them to make a triangle you are trying to crush them together exerting more force on the tow points inwards as the OP explained.
As the trialngle slack is taken up your trying to crush the tow points together. when securing to two secure mounting points using a rope they have no tendancy to crush towards each other only pull.
I'd always use a bridal if at all possible. As for ALRC Regs they are strict and set out because of the sheer number of Numpties out there that lets be honest we all wonder how they get out of bed every morning and survive general living. Idiot proof Regs for no comebacks. Common sense is by far your best friend with recovery and trialling. Unfortunatly common sense isn't available to some people and ALRC Regs take this into account. I should be competing in Team Recovery next year when I finish my 80 inch and get a willing team mate with a similar motor.
As the trialngle slack is taken up your trying to crush the tow points together. when securing to two secure mounting points using a rope they have no tendancy to crush towards each other only pull.
I'd always use a bridal if at all possible. As for ALRC Regs they are strict and set out because of the sheer number of Numpties out there that lets be honest we all wonder how they get out of bed every morning and survive general living. Idiot proof Regs for no comebacks. Common sense is by far your best friend with recovery and trialling. Unfortunatly common sense isn't available to some people and ALRC Regs take this into account. I should be competing in Team Recovery next year when I finish my 80 inch and get a willing team mate with a similar motor.
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Plenty if mud, Rope, and tow point abuse to be had. Must remember that the ALRC Permitts Fun so long as you do not weld to nor modify for the avoidance of doubt! Hehe
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
true but with a landrover it isnt likey that you would pull chassis legs together the force while different isnt that great ,obviously in moutain climbing a different story you havent fully understood it either any pull at an angle has a vectoring effect even with the two ropes attached to jate rings there is a crush force
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Agree dependant on rope length and therefore angle of bridle/triangle I'd argue that a single rope length (bridal to two solid points) length for length attached to two points rarther than making a full triangle (making the rope length even shorter increasing the angle would not put as much sideways force.
Rusty chassis seen plenty that I've refused to attach my motor to mainly X members tbf plenty of old series motors been botched up with fibreglass and filler to get 1 more year MOT and then blatted about P&P's.
Rusty chassis seen plenty that I've refused to attach my motor to mainly X members tbf plenty of old series motors been botched up with fibreglass and filler to get 1 more year MOT and then blatted about P&P's.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
one day perhaps we could have a good talk rather than argument as you seem qiute knowlegeable
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Using a single tow point is great especially if you have a straight pull 90% of recoverys are not straight forward (literally) so I'd pretty much use a bridle in most cases unless I wanted to manipulate the pull to move the vehicle in one particular direction or put weight on a particular wheel of the towed vehicle or side.
Thats why its nice to see noobies with a pair of jate rings or tow rings on series motors at the front incase they get into owt silly.
ALRC competing no need for owt fancy single mid point front and rear. most the guys n gals competing regularly in known clubs have their heads screwed on anyhow.
Thats why its nice to see noobies with a pair of jate rings or tow rings on series motors at the front incase they get into owt silly.
ALRC competing no need for owt fancy single mid point front and rear. most the guys n gals competing regularly in known clubs have their heads screwed on anyhow.
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
We arguing never! I like to debate thats just me!
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
okay thats good debate i love win or loose thats how you learn more ,just felt we might be dead arming each other which is less improving
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Ain't got time for grudges or owt. Got too many landies and plans that need sorting to be gettin stressed over owt.
Debating is always fun.
Debating is always fun.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
well cool jai ,debate it will be , apart from obvious practicable reasons like pulling rope around sharp corners on angled metal id thought angle of pull would be only effect but never thought about pulley effect of putting rope around a point,the only consolation was it took the prof 1/2 an hour to disprove his own intuitive thought but learning stuff however much or not you know is good
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Ah No worries we all have our moments when I was in a hole last comp I put a pair of shackels on one tow point. Looking at it it just looked wrong but as I was far more concerned about my fuel starvation and er lack of running engine due to being at a silly angle and being a tight git 1/4 tank. I was thinking of rusty pickup pipes and all sorts of inj pump probs or inj pipes loose drawing up air etc in my head as i dropped into it far too hard with a serious jolt) it took me a few seconds to say to myself **** thats just wrong, sort it out man.
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tacr2man
Well-Known Member
Dont know if i read it wrong but you cant get more load on the single point than you are putting in (conservation of energy) therefore by pulling on two points you must be spreading load . The first diagram and example , very poor from several points , most already mentioned. I operated heavy recovery for quite a few years , and always used bridled anchor(two separate links not interconnected) if structural integrity was at all suspect (as do military) including with KERR system , which is about the harshest test .
A major criticism of the op is possible rope damage . Another factor re traingle of death is direction of pull is compromised compared to intended load direction of anchor as in how anchor point is intended to function , easily demod on car towing points when sideways load applied compared to intended inline load . HTSH
A major criticism of the op is possible rope damage . Another factor re traingle of death is direction of pull is compromised compared to intended load direction of anchor as in how anchor point is intended to function , easily demod on car towing points when sideways load applied compared to intended inline load . HTSH
