Penswejan

New Member
Hi have just saved up and sent my 110 to the garage first and bodywork repair ( upper bulkhead and foot well replacement) and as they will be taking the doors off ,and they are completely rotten ! I am taking the opportunity to put new ones on.

It is my intention when I've saved enough money !to have the land Rover re-sprayed ,that's not going to be for awhile so I need to protect the new doors until that happens ,
The doors have come with what I presume is the grey undercoat.

Can anybody give me and the advice please ?
Thank you very much in advance ,penswejan
 
As long as the doors aren’t bare metal (it sounds like they’ve come in primer) they’ll be fine as they are. Just keep your eyes open for any scratches and chips that may take it down to the metal, as the factory primer isn’t as thick as top coat

Ash
 
The primer won't stay on long on its own,I would brush paint them with your final colour mainly to protect the interior frame.The exterior will need a rub down before a spray coate goes on anyway.
 
The primer won't stay on long on its own,I would brush paint them with your final colour mainly to protect the interior frame.The exterior will need a rub down before a spray coate goes on anyway.
Thanks for you advice , I have got 3 cans of rustoleum would that do it?
 
I would give them a brush coat of your final colour mainly to protect the interior frame but do the outer's as well.They will need to be rubbed down when they get sprayed anyway.
Sorry,thought first post had not made it. Do not know about rustoleum.
 
The primer won't stay on long on its own,I would brush paint them with your final colour mainly to protect the interior frame.The exterior will need a rub down before a spray coate goes on anyway.

How won't primer stay on on it's own? It's not like it will wash off?

Providing the door isn't catching or rubbing on any other panel then primer will be 100% fine.
 
How won't primer stay on on it's own? It's not like it will wash off?

Providing the door isn't catching or rubbing on any other panel then primer will be 100% fine.

It was my understanding (although happy to be corrected) that primer was porous, and top coat wasn't. It is this porous nature which means it is not ideal to leave things in primer open to the elements for any length of time. If it was mine i would brush paint it in the same colour enamel you plan on respraying in same as Tottot. This way it is fully protected, and when you come to respray it would only need a quick sand down and be ready to paint over. If you left the primer on it would still need a sand down, and potentially some more extensive prep work, before being sprayed.
 
I had a replacement door that was almost bare after 6 months,worse the frame behind the card had started to rust quite badly and I had to sort it quick.
Can not remember who made it but it had only seen a whiff of undercoat.
 
It was my understanding (although happy to be corrected) that primer was porous, and top coat wasn't. It is this porous nature which means it is not ideal to leave things in primer open to the elements for any length of time. If it was mine i would brush paint it in the same colour enamel you plan on respraying in same as Tottot. This way it is fully protected, and when you come to respray it would only need a quick sand down and be ready to paint over. If you left the primer on it would still need a sand down, and potentially some more extensive prep work, before being sprayed.

You may be getting mistaken with filler as that is porous. Primer isn’t, it’s common practice for primer to be wet flatted in body shops and water based basecoat to be applied over primer. If it was porous then neither of these would be suitable.

No harm in giving it a coat of paint though, just not an absolute necessity. Just buy some aerosol in the same colour for now.

If i was painting them I’d be taking whatever you put on yourself, off completely to prevent any kind of reaction, that’s down to the painter though.
 
I am not sure if you are planning on driving your Landy or is it just to be parked inside during a rebuild... this will change the options open to you!

How won't primer stay on on it's own? It's not like it will wash off?

Providing the door isn't catching or rubbing on any other panel then primer will be 100% fine.

Primer is rarely UV stable and can degrade quite quickly unless it is protected from the sun 100%, it is also porous and will absorb any contaminants he may expose it to like oil/grease/glues/silicone which then mean the primer coat is ruined - prolonged exposure to the wet can even have a negative effect on the top coat as the water will sink into the layer and won't just dry out quickly - it can be dried and will obviously but any contaminants in the water will be carried in.

Primer is meant to be put on and painted over really within a day max, if not hours! If you had said the same thing a couple of decades ago I would have agreed but doing a lot of spray painting I have learnt a lot and get a lot of advice from a friend who owns a commercial coatings business.

Just on the topic of contaminants, years ago I was assembling an external light in my friends paint shop and I decided to use some hylomar on all the glands and connection boxes that would not need to be opened again to ensure a good IP rating. The following morning I went down to see him and he asked if I had used any silicon in his place - not thinking I said no - nothing like that why? He said that all the paint jobs within a 4500 sq meter facility had fish-eyed (those little spots that won't take paint and keep opening up) Eventually I remembered the hylomar - but I said I was no where near the paint jobs - he said it doesn't matter, just being in the same room or warehouse in this case, was enough to contaminate everything. It is then I heard about all the things that are banned near a paint shop!
 
How can you use a water based basecoat over a porous material in that case?

In the past 7 years I’ve been a painter we’ve never had issues with panels being left in primer for a length of time. Some lads like to get their cars in on an evening, repair a section and prime it, it then gets left for weeks or months before they get chance to paint it. Often panels come in primer from the factory, they could be sat there for months before they get shipped anywhere, and all of the primer isn’t removed or baked before priming, it’s not necessary.

Silicone is a b*tch! The stuff they use to shine tyres up and then they come in for a refurb is the worst! Just can’t get rid of it no matter how many times you panel wipe them.

Ash
 
How can you use a water based basecoat over a porous material in that case?

In the past 7 years I’ve been a painter we’ve never had issues with panels being left in primer for a length of time. Some lads like to get their cars in on an evening, repair a section and prime it, it then gets left for weeks or months before they get chance to paint it. Often panels come in primer from the factory, they could be sat there for months before they get shipped anywhere, and all of the primer isn’t removed or baked before priming, it’s not necessary.

Silicone is a b*tch! The stuff they use to shine tyres up and then they come in for a refurb is the worst! Just can’t get rid of it no matter how many times you panel wipe them.

Ash

Ash, I know what happens and I hear you, primer will be and is used longer than it ought to and often with no apparent ill effect but it's never recommended and can lead to paint issues in the future - i.e. resprayed cars with oodles of issues bubbling and lacquer peeling off while the original paint work is still 100% is a common enough sight.

I occasionally do things like this too - it's cheating in my eyes, where I might cut a corner or do something too quick or incorrectly to get the job done and did I get away with it? Yes I did. Example, I painted bare MDF drawer and door fronts I made last week, I spray paint as much as I can as I have all the kit and gallons of common paint colours in different finishes and types, 1K, 2K base coats, lacquers etc. and I do this as I can get a commercial grade finish on things. So I went to mix up my primer only to discover that I had used most of it on something I had forgotten I had even painted. I was in a mood and wanted these things painted fast - so I found a tin of varnish - thinned it a little, fired it into the gun and painted all the MDF with the stuff. It worked a treat, MDF sealed, left it 24hrs, de-nibbed it and hit it with a topcoat of satin 2K RAL 9016 - how does it look - MINT - 2 tiny spec of dust that I won't even try and buff out as they are low down and won't be seen. As a practise, if I was a £50K + kitchen manufacturer this would not really be acceptable? It would be slapdash and incorrect, but I did it and got away with it - durability I think will be fine, the the adhesion to the varnish I think will be fine and being indoors I don't expect to see any flaking issues.

As for replacement panel delivery paint, as far as I am concerned that coating should be removed completely before starting your own painting - on cars it is the only way to achieve the OEM paint system.

You are a painter so as you will know, primer is really just a leveller and adhesion promoter. Now if it was an impervious coating, like that of the substrate you have just painted i.e. metal, there would not be much point in using primer as paints adhesion to metal is far less than to wood for example. Primer coat is only going to be about 30microns thick, so when the basecoat or solid topcoat solvent (water or chemical) soaks through the primer it will not cause a problem unlike say a piece of stone or MDF where it could soak in inches! Put a piece of kitchen paper on the counter and spray it with a little water - lift it up and the counter will be almost dry, saturate the paper with water and lift the paper towel, the counter will be wet and probably wet beyond the edges of the paper tower as it is saturated and cannot take any more - the same happens at low level with a primer coat. It is this penetration of the primer due to its porosity that makes primer such a good substrate for painting but it also means it can be contaminated easily.

As for your waterborne base coats, during drying once the basecoast films it creates a semipermeable membrane which the solvent can pass through by reverse osmosis, this is what allows the drying process to continue after the paint has filmed over, same happens in waterborne, only that it's water and about 12% solvent. Ideally in a basecoat, you obviously don't want too much solvent left before lacquer to avoid popping etc. However in the case of a waterborne basecoat (which will leave the much thinner layer than solvent based basecoat) the water should be fully flashed off before you you lacquer or you risk die back which is why cross draught booths are better for water. It is low humidity which helps dry waterborne rather than needing warmer temperature, albeit warmer temps will allow the air to hold more water and thus dry the paint quicker, but air movement alone will dry water well. However in the case of your solvent based basecoat the solvents don't need to be quite as dry, say 15mins for solvent rather than 45 for water, because any small remaining volume of solvent will dry through the lacquer.
 

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