Miniman

Miniman

New Member
Has anybody got a 4203 or a 4186 ECT ECT manual that would help me with my latest project....Do you know of anything on the net that may help me. I wish to read and look into my engine and Injector pump before I pull it to bits....Just so I dont miss that spring that flys out over your shoulder and you never find it again.....!:)
 
my god do people still put these old thumpers into landies, i used to have an old 2a with a 4203 in it:)
 
yep they still about. what was yours like. fuel wise and power. Also starting and over all economy....?
 
Miniman said:
yep they still about. what was yours like. fuel wise and power. Also starting and over all economy....?
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Dont want to upset you but 4203/4236 engines are unsuitable for 4wd use,they are ok in forklifts/tactors etc.Starting a 4203 in cold weather is no fun,4236's arent quite so bad.They dont rev hard enough or make much real power either.They are also very heavy - very ! Prone to oil/fuel leaks,love smashing up gearboxes/overdrives and diffs.The other thing 4203's are good at is partially seizing and wrecking pistons/liners/rings - when they lose a little water.Forget the horrible things and stick a 200/300tdi in it.Start easily,go well,reliable,lighter,good parts backup,less insurance problems,and it is always going to be worth a few quid when you finish with it.They are also easier to fit.
 
First I totaly disagree with you about the perkins. My mate just down the road has a 4236 in his landy and he has a overdrive fitted its good up to 80mph but he dont do it. When he had 7.50 tyres on the old beast it did brake half shafts for fun but now he has gone to 205/70 and has not broken one. Dont know if you know but the engine is already in the motor and has been for about 6 years so I have no intentions of buying a very expensive 200tdi or 300tdi. Yes the 200 and 300 are a good engine but the perkins have alot more tourque. I dont need it for off road but more to pull my 88" on a trailer to off road days and the caravan ect ect. Not to bothered about speed but I have some 90 diffs to install which will help alot. I have been told that the perkins rev to only about 2500 - 3000 revs but that is why they last so long. Do you know of anywhere on the Net which has infomation on the engine any info would be of great help. Cheers in advance. :)
 
eightinavee said:
Dont want to upset you but 4203/4236 engines are unsuitable for 4wd use,they are ok in forklifts/tactors etc.Starting a 4203 in cold weather is no fun,4236's arent quite so bad.They dont rev hard enough or make much real power either.They are also very heavy - very ! Prone to oil/fuel leaks,love smashing up gearboxes/overdrives and diffs.The other thing 4203's are good at is partially seizing and wrecking pistons/liners/rings - when they lose a little water.Forget the horrible things and stick a 200/300tdi in it.Start easily,go well,reliable,lighter,good parts backup,less insurance problems,and it is always going to be worth a few quid when you finish with it.They are also easier to fit.
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what a load of old tosh ffs. in the early eighties every self respecting series owner had a 4203 and aspiration was wanting a 4236. by todays standards you may well be right but series aint modern so yer can poke yer technology and stick with old fashioned grunt.:)
 
Sorry to upset the applecart,but I've been driving a 4203 powered IIa since 1973 - and I still usually see it once a year for its mot.It is a bloody dinosaur ! My father did its original conversion and it just had to stay in cos he didnt have time to take it out - plus there wasnt a great deal of choice of engines back then.Forgot to mention the hydraulic governed Cav injector pump,reliable enough but its all speed governing was a pain in the ass when you tried (bravely) to overtake - it would put you up against the windscreen when it got to speed!
Then in 1988 the old man sent me off with the cheque book - I came back with a 90td.Hell! it went like the clappers,pulled like a frieght train in comparison and it never broke down.That Perkins was filthy,slow,a pain to service and had to live in the workshop in winter if there was ever any thought of it starting on a cold morning.A rover v8 would have been cheaper in the long run - if only for a reliable truck.
So you can keep yer Perkins,they make good boat anchors !!!!
 
Well that must tell you something about it if you still see it after all this time. ;)
 

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Miniman said:
Well that must tell you something about it if you still see it after all this time. ;)
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Yes it does,three engines and several head gaskets.(we only did one gasket,the rest by later owners)I think the rest of the truck is doing well putting up with it.
 
so if the perky is so ****e howcome it has been replased another twice by the same.and just as a pointer the old 90 td isnt exactly a ferrari is it.:)
 
It was compared to the perkins!I cant believe you are serious about these things - I dug up the Perkins w/shop manual today.Ready for it - 63bhp at 2600rpm and 147ft/lb of torque.200tdi,107/109bhp and 195ft/lb at1750rpm no comparison really.Plus they are not expensive,old rusty mot failed disco's can be had for about £600 - keep the engine and get most of your money back from breaking the rest of it.The issue of the downpipe positioning can be easily sorted,the rest of it is pretty much nuts and bolts.No butchering the crossmember under the flywheel housing etc. Sorry the Perkins just does not add up in any way - at 288kg dry it only beats the tdi in excess weight.
 
what you fail to notice is that these engines were a cheap diesel conversion or replacement for the old 2 1/4 bmc diesel. in their day they were the one of the first hybrid motors you could actually get a conversion plate for and as for oily dirty and forever breaking down, isnt that what landrovers are all about. its not just a car its a way of life. no other 4x4 has such a great following with such a mixed bag of people.you may have moved on to bigger and better things but just remember to some people these old thumpers are all they can afford and are their pride and joy. to others its a hobby or an interest that they pursue and enjoy. i now drive a disco but i still enjoy reading about old series with their quirks and faults and if i can help or offer advise then i will. yes they were cold and draughty, yes they were slow and uncomfortable but at the end of the day they were and still are to many good fun. yes we all like to take the **** and have a laugh, me as much as the next man, but just remember this forum is here to help each other not to upset people:)
 
No mate you got me wrong,I still have a 1963 IIa swb used daily - in the winter I cant manage without it,it works bloody hard bringing home firewood every w/e. (our only form of heating is a woodburner) If it were down to me it would carry on for ever,it does all I can ask of a 4wd.It runs a 2.1/4 petrol and is factory apart from the SU carb cos I got fed up with the original junk.I stand by what I have said because of the years spent trying to make the best of what was available at the time - including hours on the lathe turning up an adaptor to accept a starter strong enough to turn the bloody thing over fast enough on a cold morning.I have no problem with old kit - there is a nearly finished 3brg 2.1/4 diesel on the floor in my workshop waiting to go back into my next door neighbours 1951 80in, ( used as my wedding car - much admired ) this one tows a trailer to the south of France each summer.It is used around the mountains for 2-3 months then comes back to the UK.But tomorrow morning I have an 03 RR Td6 to service and check over - I dont say what I say without reason,but some things are best left in the past,Like Scott 2 strokes and Austin Gypsies.
 
Here we go then. I have bought the complete 109" 1975 with the perkins already in it. I own and run daily my 88" 2.25 Diesel. It has never failed me yet since I dragged it from the top of malham moor in the yorkshire dales. It had been sat there for 8 years. I took alot on but brought the old beast back to life. Fitted a 90 servo with a peugeot vac pump. Also a 90 diffs I have ported the head made my own free flow exhaust and it so far has been the fastest 88" Diesel througout all the landy owners I have ever met. Its Very good on fuel but I think this is down to the diffs as the engine is not screeming to keep up with the traffic. So I new toy which has the perkins in is here to stay. As yellow disco says its a hobby well some times its a pain in the ass but thats all in the fun. I want the perkins for the reliability and the power. I have a transporter trailer which I wish to pull the 88" to 4x4 days then if I brake anything I am ok to get home. Also I dont have to much money to throw about I got 3 kids and a WOMAN!!!!!!! But I still get my landy play days. By the way I only payed £200 for the 109" and wish to restore it. You say you have a perkins manual, is it for sale ? I have nothing at all to help me with this engine and I am sure you will not be needing it....lol Let me know if you wish to sell it. The perkins is getting taken to the garage some time soon so I can work on it under the roof. I just got to move a old TR7 and a 90 chassis. There is alot of welding to do and I need to get a hard top for it. Even tho I have not got the engine running yet I am not to fussed about it as diesel are not a bad engine to sort out. Anyway I think I have rambled on to much now so its over to you lot......:D
 
You answered your own statement with your 2.1/4 Lr diesel - reliability,keep it up together and it wont let you down.Just a bit pedestrian,like my IIa petrol.But it was built as a whole to do a job which it is still very capable of - in terms of when it was made.That Perkins is never going to be as fondly remembered.As far as the shop manual goes you are welcome to it - you will become very familiar with it !! When I said to the old man this morning about his old IIa,He did say that he couldnt be sure that on a morning as cold as this he couldnt be sure it would start 100%.Every Lr product our family has owned since then will.(there are usually 9 or 10 in the immediate family at any one time - we dont have cars)How can you earn a living and employ people to use a truck that wont start at 8am each and every morning.
 
I think that I should put my 2 cents worth in here. I have a 1972 Series III 109 as my only means of transpotation here in Canada. I bought it because Land Rovers are reliable and fixable. I do however know that I have to be continuously doing all the routine maintence. Having said that, the only time that it has failed me is when I did not do the proper maintence it failed due to that. I believe that any of the engine set ups are reliable with the proper maintence and care. I also have noticed that a lot of people complain about the poor performance that the older engines are producing, but they are unwilling to do the engine rebuild to restore the engine to an original condition. They instead opt for an upgrade to a newer generation of engine and are amazed at the increase of power. However, had they rebuilt that original engine they would not have seen such an increase in performance. I know that the older truck/engines do not get the performance that the newer ones do, however I feel strongly about the fact that the older trucks were built for specific things and that at time they were wonders of engineering in their own right. Thanks for allowing my ramble. Andrew.
 
You think like me. I have been toying with the idea of some vehicle body to put on the chassis. But the TR7 is a lovely motor and complete so its got to stay that way. I was thinking of a Triumph Dolomite or Mini or even a Morris Minor.....

Got the perkins to run today ( SWEET AS A NUT ). It would not start without the Manifold Pre Heater. It was coughing but that was it. Oil pressure was 60 lbs so its not bad to say its been sat for 2 years and not started. New filters , Oil ect ect next. Ok talk in a bit ScrapHeap Challenge is on.....:)
 
I think that I should put my 2 cents worth in here. I have a 1972 Series III 109 as my only means of transpotation here in Canada. I bought it because Land Rovers are reliable and fixable. I do however know that I have to be continuously doing all the routine maintence. Having said that, the only time that it has failed me is when I did not do the proper maintence it failed due to that. I believe that any of the engine set ups are reliable with the proper maintence and care. I also have noticed that a lot of people complain about the poor performance that the older engines are producing, but they are unwilling to do the engine rebuild to restore the engine to an original condition. They instead opt for an upgrade to a newer generation of engine and are amazed at the increase of power. However, had they rebuilt that original engine they would not have seen such an increase in performance. I know that the older truck/engines do not get the performance that the newer ones do, however I feel strongly about the fact that the older trucks were built for specific things and that at time they were wonders of engineering in their own right. Thanks for allowing my ramble. Andrew.
 
Miniman

Interested in the gas flowing and the exhaust modifications. Grateful for further details.

Just to add my two cents worth, not familiar with the Perkins conversion, but the old 2.25 - 10J is a real work horse. If the engine, pump and injectors are in good condition starts first time every time and does everything that is asked of it. For an engine that's using technology 40 years old what more do you want ?
 
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