Still exercising the grey matter and reckon it's nothing mechanical.

Current thoughts are throttle position sensor failure, no fault code showing though but maybe a circuit issue.

Perhaps the throttle position input is ignored/overridden during start up and once running its faulty or non existant input it causing hP fuel pressure to fall.

Since it restarts straight away try this,

Disconnect the ign switch wire from the starter
Get someone to keep the ignition swich in the crank position and start using a wire from starter terminal to battery positive. See if she'll idle with ignition switch held in that position.

Pure guessing and likely complete bollocks but it's free!

Chaser. :eek:
 
ratty said:
Hmmm. might be one going cheap on ebay. I would say that it would be worth getting it plugged in on landrovers diagnostic. I know it's expensive but you don't seem to be going anywhere with it at the moment. You might be better just biting the bullet.
Click to expand...

According to this from Rave, suggests Ecu can't be swapped with a used one.

[The ECM cannot be tested directly, diagnosis must be performed by ensuring that inputs and outputs conform to
specifications. TestBook is available for this purpose. If the ECM is to be replaced, the new ECM will be supplied
'blank' and must be configured to the vehicle using TestBook. When the ECM is fitted to the vehicle it must also be
synchronised to the immobilisation ECU using TestBook. Engine control modules cannot be swapped between
vehicles.]

I also noticed the ECM gets an input from brake pedal switch (probably to cut fuel under braking) so worth checking that out.

Chaser..
 
ratty said:
I'm with you. I think it is a sensor/ecu fault rather than an engine fault.
Click to expand...

Not just me then, although i've just traced back to original post from Greenie and he says there was some smoke at initial breakdown.
Could have just been incorrect fueling I suppose.
 
Thanks guys fu all ya input on this, it really is a brainbeater..

Maybe if i sum-up on this, it may be a bit clearer..

The Brake Down..

The car was running great, good starting, loads of power, exceleration ect.. until it just stopped, just like running out of fuel, turn the key to
start again.. it starts, but the best i can explain it is... very weak..
i couldnt get it to rev.. if i floored it, it made no difference! it would
creep up to 1000rvs.. & i mean creep! lots of grey smoke! like it
couldnt get enough fuel?

I turned it off, tried again afew times, and it was just the same!

Now... I had NO warning light come on at all? (if a senser had gone, i would have expected ECU light to show)


Jobs on car..

Replaced tank fuel pump

Replaced lift pump & filter (right hand wing)

Replaced MAF senser (Roveron pierburgh & MF75p)

Removed EGR valve, ground out the valve completly, blocked small end
with a piece of baked bean tin! also blocked vacuum pipe

Replaced crankcase breather filter.

Done injector leak-off test, all ok.
------------------------------

Had a mobile diagnostic guy come to do test, he had found one fault..
MAF sensor!
I unplugged it to see if it made any difference, starting/running.. it
didnt! (thats why the fault showed)

Now theres one thing i should mention here, when i turn the key to start,
it would run for about 10-15 seconds un cut out! (still no revs, very weak)
Start again.. the same.. i kept on doing that, untill the engine started
to get hot, it would run a bit longer then, untill eventually it would
tick over lovely?
Now, if i floored it, it would take forever to get to 2500revs?
loads of GREY smoke?
I used to leave it running on my drive for 2 or 3 hours at a time, flooring
the peddle at intervals... loads of smoke.. un very very slow revs??

Hope ive made sum sence here...

Thanks again guys for ya help.. it really is apresheated!!!;)
 
It does sound like fuel starvation. Did you refuel just before this happened. I have been to several vehicles over the years that have filled up with what turned out to be dreggs from a petrol station tank. They have all had thick white gloop that is best described as white snot blocking their fuel pipes and injectors. Also if you did refuel did you use supermarket fuel? I have stopped using it after I found I get more power and an extra 50-100km to a tank on my truck. I found one petrol station was selling petrol that wouldn't ignite with a lighter.
 
ratty said:
It does sound like fuel starvation. Did you refuel just before this happened. I have been to several vehicles over the years that have filled up with what turned out to be dreggs from a petrol station tank. They have all had thick white gloop that is best described as white snot blocking their fuel pipes and injectors. Also if you did refuel did you use supermarket fuel? I have stopped using it after I found I get more power and an extra 50-100km to a tank on my truck. I found one petrol station was selling petrol that wouldn't ignite with a lighter.
Click to expand...

No Watty.. it was good Deisel from a reliable garage, i checked fuel
lines, un fuel pressure in the LP side, and is all good! but hey.. i know
wot ya mean.. theres sum ****e fuel about, not good enough to thin
paint wiff!

I cant help but think its summat ta do wiff high pressure pump, but
normally there fairly reliable?
 
Greenie said:
I cant help but think its summat ta do wiff high pressure pump, but
normally there fairly reliable?
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the question is, is it delivering low output to the rail due to it's pressure control valve receiving duff information from ECM.

And ECM could be sending duff information to it because it's receiving duff information from sensor/s.

This is from Rover Ron's site, but I believe you've checked these;

[7) FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR SEAL LEAKING. (very rare)
One owner had power and eventually starting problems. These were eventually traced to a leaking seal in the pressure regulator (solenoid) which is bolted onto the end of the high pressure pump. The regulator can be unbolted and the seal replaced by a Bosch injection specialist. Starter will need to be remove to gain access.
Contact Alan at Lynxdiesels.com for spares
8) MICROFILTER
There is a microfilter in the inlet to the high pressure pump which has been known to become partially clogged causing erratic performance, loss of power and engine cutting out. Remove the HP regulator to access it.]

And finally, for what it's worth Greenie if it were mine i'd try the crank sensor because I think your grey smoke may indicate incorrect injection timing.

Chaser...​
 
Chaser said:
8) MICROFILTER
There is a microfilter in the inlet to the high pressure pump which has been known to become partially clogged causing erratic performance, loss of power and engine cutting out. Remove the HP regulator to access it

Chaser...​
Click to expand...

You might have summit there chaser. The company I work for run a fleet of about 40 Iveco turbo daileys. They were going through High pressure fuel pumps at the rate of 1 to 2 per vehicle per year. We found that the micro filter was blocking with swarf and causing the pump failures. If memory serves me right it was filtering to 6000 microns. The filter was was tiny (shaped like a top hat and probaby about 3mm in diameter and 5mm long). Since we have started removing these prior to fitting (about 9 or 10 months now) NONE of the pumps that has had the micro filter removed has failed.
 
ratty said:
You might have summit there chaser. The company I work for run a fleet of about 40 Iveco turbo daileys. They were going through High pressure fuel pumps at the rate of 1 to 2 per vehicle per year. We found that the micro filter was blocking with swarf and causing the pump failures. If memory serves me right it was filtering to 6000 microns. The filter was was tiny (shaped like a top hat and probaby about 3mm in diameter and 5mm long). Since we have started removing these prior to fitting (about 9 or 10 months now) NONE of the pumps that has had the micro filter removed has failed.
Click to expand...


Hey Guys.. I didnt know that there was a filter in there??

could be onto summat.. i thought the fuel filter was supposed to take
all the crapp out? un protect the H/P pump?

Is it safe to remove this mini filter altogether!!
 
Greenie said:
Hey Guys.. I didnt know that there was a filter in there??

could be onto summat.. i thought the fuel filter was supposed to take
all the crapp out? un protect the H/P pump?
Click to expand...

It is. This filter is half the size of an eraser on top of a pencil. It looks more like a tiny chrome oil filter just plonked on the end of the pipe. You wouldn't recognise it as a filter. You would say it looks like a blanking cap. Like I say the holes are so small they are invisible to the naked eye.

Is it safe to remove this mini filter altogether!!
Click to expand...

If you go by what the manufacturers say then the answer is NO. If it is anything like the ones on the iveco's at work then the answer is it's essential to prevent the problem again. If you are lucky yours will only be blocked up. If you are unlucky it'll have killed the pump.

I can't promise anything but i'll see if I can get my hands on a fecked iveco pump to take a photo of the micro filter.
 
ratty said:
You might have summit there chaser. The company I work for run a fleet of about 40 Iveco turbo daileys. They were going through High pressure fuel pumps at the rate of 1 to 2 per vehicle per year. We found that the micro filter was blocking with swarf and causing the pump failures. If memory serves me right it was filtering to 6000 microns. The filter was was tiny (shaped like a top hat and probaby about 3mm in diameter and 5mm long). Since we have started removing these prior to fitting (about 9 or 10 months now) NONE of the pumps that has had the micro filter removed has failed.
Click to expand...

Well it's another maybe fellas and costs nowt to try, if it's not that we'll keep thinking.

Chaser..
 
still got problems then greenun. . . . .ive bin away on Zog, must be the werstest problem on LZ . . . . . .STILL YER GETTIN SUM HELP:) :) :) hope yer get it sorted
 
ming said:
still got problems then greenun. . . . .ive bin away on Zog, must be the werstest problem on LZ . . . . . .STILL YER GETTIN SUM HELP:) :) :) hope yer get it sorted
Click to expand...


He-yup Ming... We thought you un porky wuz frozun in time
sumwere...:)

yep ya rite, must be wun of the strangest fings happen fur a long time!

It sertunly got everywun brain bashin!!:)

Some good lads on here, i reelie appeshiate wot thev done!;)
 
Greenie said:
Some good lads on here, i reelie appeshiate wot thev done!;)
Click to expand...
yes they are. . . . . .but they ad better hurry up un fix yer gaylander, cos Mrs Ming finks ther slackin un she int happy wiff them un mite start torcherin un fings. . . . .:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
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