Hi there, posting this here to get help

I have a noise coming from the rear that only appears when coasting - I recorded a video, hopefully people can hear it well:



Things I have already did myself:

- replaced front driveshaft with new one
- replaced rear driveshaft ujoints
- greased everything
- replaced rear left wheelhub

I then took the vehicle to a local so called "Land Rover specialist" mechanic - he removed the rear differential and said that under "visual inspection" did not detect anything unusual (but I don't think he knows how to inspect with proper gear marking compound for instance).

Does anybody have tips (or have suggestions) or what I should investigate next?

Thanks!

mcbrl said:

Hi there, posting this here to get help

I have a noise coming from the rear that only appears when coasting - I recorded a video, hopefully people can hear it well:



Things I have already did myself:

- replaced front driveshaft with new one
- replaced rear driveshaft ujoints
- greased everything
- replaced rear left wheelhub

I then took the vehicle to a local so called "Land Rover specialist" mechanic - he removed the rear differential and said that under "visual inspection" did not detect anything unusual (but I don't think he knows how to inspect with proper gear marking compound for instance).

Does anybody have tips (or have suggestions) or what I should investigate next?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

So he took it out when it was making that noise then put it back and it was still making the same noise?

By visual inspection I would hope he was testing for roughness, too much play in any of the components and the backlash between the pinion drive gear and the crown wheel, which from memory should be about 7 thou. He should also have checked for particles of metal in the diff casing and the oil when it was emptied.
To me it does sound as if it is worn as all the play will be taken up when accelerating but will show itself when coasting. Do you get the same under engine braking or does it go away again.

Thanks for the reply - the noise continues even when I press the brakes. But as soon I step on the gas, disappears.

I don't think he had tools to assess backslash up to that precision. There is no noticeable play when moving prop shaft manually (up/down) - nor when turning the wheels (prop shaft does move accordingly), without any play. And he did not find metal or particles (that's what I have been told at least).

Would driving around without the rear prop shaft (and diff lock engaged) help identifying the problem? I read on other forums people do this.

Also: how would you describe this noise? I am having trouble searching for similar problems on other forums / videos.

mcbrl said:

Thanks for the reply - the noise continues even when I press the brakes. But as soon I step on the gas, disappears.

I don't think he had tools to assess backslash up to that precision. There is no noticeable play when moving prop shaft manually (up/down) - nor when turning the wheels (prop shaft does move accordingly), without any play. And he did not find metal or particles (that's what I have been told at least).

Would driving around without the rear prop shaft (and diff lock engaged) help identifying the problem? I read on other forums people do this.

Also: how would you describe this noise? I am having trouble searching for similar problems on other forums / videos.

Click to expand...

Pressing the brakes would have the same effect as acceleration, which is why I asked about engine braking, i.e. using low gear to slow the car down on a hill but not using the brakes.
So if it continues when pressing them, in neutral, we may have to look elsewhere. i had a bad rumble and vibration comeing from mine on my D1 and it turned out to be that the mech who changed the diff simply hadn't done the pinion nut (or bolt I forget which it is) up tight enough. But I couldn't tell the play until I undid the rear propshaft and took it down away from the diff, then I could feel all sorts of play in the flange.

You might as well drop the prop and do as you say. You are lucky to have diff lock in a D2 lots of us haven't!

I'd consider looking at the handbrake drum etc too and also the other hub.

Best of luck with it.

And welcome to the forum by the way!!

(There is an "Introduce yourself" bit for when you have the time!)

Stanleysteamer said:

Pressing the brakes would have the same effect as acceleration, which is why I asked about engine braking, i.e. using low gear to slow the car down on a hill but not using the brakes.
So if it continues when pressing them, in neutral, we may have to look elsewhere. i had a bad rumble and vibration comeing from mine on my D1 and it turned out to be that the mech who changed the diff simply hadn't done the pinion nut (or bolt I forget which it is) up tight enough. But I couldn't tell the play until I undid the rear propshaft and took it down away from the diff, then I could feel all sorts of play in the flange.

Click to expand...

Ah sorry, did not know the term engine braking.

Yes I tried going downhill without pressing the gas pedal (nor brakes) - the noise is still there. As soon as I touch the gas, noise goes away. I tried in neutral as well as engaged in D, or 3, 2, 1 (1 less prominent given the lower speed).

And I cannot feel any play on the diff flange / and the outside pinion that is sticking out of the diff (trying to move by hand of course).

Stanleysteamer said:

You might as well drop the prop and do as you say. You are lucky to have diff lock in a D2 lots of us haven't!

Click to expand...

Yep, I will try that now.

Stanleysteamer said:

I'd consider looking at the handbrake drum etc too and also the other hub.

Click to expand...

Any particular tip on what to look for at the drum? When I remove the prop shaft, the drum has some play (but I guess the four bolts from the prop shaft are the ones that hold it in place).

Stanleysteamer said:

Best of luck with it.

And welcome to the forum by the way!!

(There is an "Introduce yourself" bit for when you have the time!)

Click to expand...

Thanks! Yep, I will do that soon

Cheers

mcbrl said:

Ah sorry, did not know the term engine braking.

Yes I tried going downhill without pressing the gas pedal (nor brakes) - the noise is still there. As soon as I touch the gas, noise goes away. I tried in neutral as well as engaged in D, or 3, 2, 1 (1 less prominent given the lower speed).

And I cannot feel any play on the diff flange / and the outside pinion that is sticking out of the diff (trying to move by hand of course).

Yep, I will try that now.


Any particular tip on what to look for at the drum? When I remove the prop shaft, the drum has some play (but I guess the four bolts from the prop shaft are the ones that hold it in place).



Thanks! Yep, I will do that soon

Cheers

Click to expand...

As for the hand brake drum, TBH you may have to dismantle it and look at it. Drop the prop, put the handbrake on then there is one cross head screw which you may need an impact driver to release. Then you can let the handbrake off and pull the drum away. If a spring has broken it should be obvious.
Have you tried jacking up the other rear wheel and spinning it, listening for bearing rumble and feeling for play?

I'm much less convinced it is the diff now.

mcbrl said:

Also: how would you describe this noise? I am having trouble searching for similar problems on other forums / videos.

Click to expand...

I'd describe it as a light whirring noise. It's quite high pitched but not a "scream". It seems to be consistent with road speed, would you agree with that? In which case it could be worn hub bearings or diff bearings, (according to my Haynes manual!) which isn't the Bible.
So if the mech who looked at the diff is any good that should narrow it down to hub bearing.

I have changed three of the hubs on mine and not in one of them could I feel the play. In two the ABS etc lights came on and in the other, a front hub, it just made a consistent noise, not as loud as yours, my wife couldn't hear it. My other hub is now making the noise but I have yet to change it. The only surprising thing is that if the hub is worn usually the "three amigos" lights come on (ABS, Hill Descent Control, Traction control) but in the case of my front hub they didn't so it isn't cast iron guaranteed.

Stanleysteamer said:

Stanleysteamer said:

I'd describe it as a light whirring noise. It's quite high pitched but not a "scream". It seems to be consistent with road speed, would you agree with that? In which case it could be worn hub bearings or diff bearings, (according to my Haynes manual!) which isn't the Bible.
So if the mech who looked at the diff is any good that should narrow it down to hub bearing.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yes, it gets higher/high pitched as I go faster.

Yeah... I wonder how good he is. He ruled out the problem with a visual inspection only.

Stanleysteamer said:

Stanleysteamer said:

I have changed three of the hubs on mine and not in one of them could I feel the play. In two the ABS etc lights came on and in the other, a front hub, it just made a consistent noise, not as loud as yours, my wife couldn't hear it. My other hub is now making the noise but I have yet to change it. The only surprising thing is that if the hub is worn usually the "three amigos" lights come on (ABS, Hill Descent Control, Traction control) but in the case of my front hub they didn't so it isn't cast iron guaranteed.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I only saw the three amigos once - after I hit a major hole on the road. Cleared the codes with Nanocom and they never appeared again ( so far ). Good to know about the hubs - hopefully that's all that is.

Stanleysteamer said:

As for the hand brake drum, TBH you may have to dismantle it and look at it. Drop the prop, put the handbrake on then there is one cross head screw which you may need an impact driver to release. Then you can let the handbrake off and pull the drum away. If a spring has broken it should be obvious.
Have you tried jacking up the other rear wheel and spinning it, listening for bearing rumble and feeling for play?

Click to expand...

I have just jacked up the car - I am not familiar with car noise but it does not appear to be making any strange noise. But what about the "clic" noise when abruptly moving the wheel forward/backward? I am not sure if it is normal:



Another info: the rear right half shaft has been changed recently (as per the previous owner)

Stanleysteamer said:

I'm much less convinced it is the diff now.

Click to expand...

What makes you say that?

Well, and I just removed the rear prop shaft and drove around for a bit.

And I can still hear the noise! However, this time, I believe I can hear it also when stepping on the gas... But it does sound a little bit different, more high pitched...

Thanks again for helping me narrow down the problem!

mcbrl said:

Yes, it gets higher/high pitched as I go faster.

Yeah... I wonder how good he is. He ruled out the problem with a visual inspection only.



I only saw the three amigos once - after I hit a major hole on the road. Cleared the codes with Nanocom and they never appeared again ( so far ). Good to know about the hubs - hopefully that's all that is.



I have just jacked up the car - I am not familiar with car noise but it does not appear to be making any strange noise. But what about the "clic" noise when abruptly moving the wheel forward/backward? I am not sure if it is normal:

Click to expand...

Next time for god's sake put axle stands under the car if you are going to go under it! Seals in jacks can fail and lots of people have been killed by this.
When I said to do this I meant check the wheel bearing for play and noise by rotating it, which you did and it sounds fine but also by holding the wheel at 12 o'clock and six o'clock and wiggling it, in at the bottom out at the top and vice versal to see if you can feel play, then doing the same at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, this should do the same. any play at all and the hub is fubar. But I have to admit that I did this with mine and even though the 3 amigos told me it was gone as did the diagnostic I couldn't feel any play, so it only has to be a fraction out for it to have gone. Although in my case there was no noise. The click noise doesn't sound too bad, remember you are taking up all the normal play in the whole drive from hub to transfer box. And it is possible that your splines may be worn too.

mcbrl said:

Another info: the rear right half shaft has been changed recently (as per the previous owner)



What makes you say that?

Click to expand...

I am not convinced wholly that it isn't the diff, just a bit less so.
Because if it was the diff it would make the noise consistently and not disappear on acceleration but it could still be it, worn diff bearings, worn axle drive pinion splines, etc.
The hub nut may even be loose. It has to be done up to a huge torque then staked. If the previous owner did it he may not have tightened it up enough. 362 lbs ft, or 490 Nm. I did mine by using a long bar and marking the point on it where my body weight would exert that much torque. A torque wrench to do this much torque is very expensive and most home mechanics don't have one. To undo them I had to put a scaffold pipe over my long breaker bar.

mcbrl said:

Well, and I just removed the rear prop shaft and drove around for a bit.

And I can still hear the noise! However, this time, I believe I can hear it also when stepping on the gas... But it does sound a little bit different, more high pitched...

Click to expand...

If the drive is not going to the diff then the diff is running by being turned by the wheels, so you would expect the noise in all senses of motion.

mcbrl said:

Thanks again for helping me narrow down the problem!

Click to expand...

Doing my best but not being with you doesn't help!
I think you need to get an experienced mech in the back of the car as you drive along so he can listen to it and work out what it is. I have had to do that in the past. One time it was a rear wheel bearing in a FWD drive car when I feared it was the diff!
The other time it was wind noise coming from where I had fogotten I had taped over the top of the windscreen temporarily.
Best of luck and STAY SAFE!

mcbrl said:

Yes, it gets higher/high pitched as I go faster.

Yeah... I wonder how good he is. He ruled out the problem with a visual inspection only.



I only saw the three amigos once - after I hit a major hole on the road. Cleared the codes with Nanocom and they never appeared again ( so far ). Good to know about the hubs - hopefully that's all that is.



I have just jacked up the car - I am not familiar with car noise but it does not appear to be making any strange noise. But what about the "clic" noise when abruptly moving the wheel forward/backward? I am not sure if it is normal:



Another info: the rear right half shaft has been changed recently (as per the previous owner)



What makes you say that?

Well, and I just removed the rear prop shaft and drove around for a bit.

And I can still hear the noise! However, this time, I believe I can hear it also when stepping on the gas... But it does sound a little bit different, more high pitched...

Thanks again for helping me narrow down the problem!

Click to expand...

Just listened again, are you sure it isn't a problem with the brakes?? Could a piston be stuck holding a pad at least slightly in contact with the disc? or a bit of stone or other foreign body be in there?
That should be easy to check! And easy to fix!

Just found this which might help

Also to see if it is wheel bearing related, try swinging it hard from side to side, i.e. driving in a tight turn to the left and then to the right, (empty car park or something) if it gets worse then better it is deffo wheel related rather than diff related.

Stanleysteamer said:

Next time for god's sake put axle stands under the car if you are going to go under it! Seals in jacks can fail and lots of people have been killed by this.

Click to expand...

F*** did not know that, thanks, will do!

Stanleysteamer said:

When I said to do this I meant check the wheel bearing for play and noise by rotating it, which you did and it sounds fine but also by holding the wheel at 12 o'clock and six o'clock and wiggling it, in at the bottom out at the top and vice versal to see if you can feel play, then doing the same at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, this should do the same. any play at all and the hub is fubar. But I have to admit that I did this with mine and even though the 3 amigos told me it was gone as did the diagnostic I couldn't feel any play, so it only has to be a fraction out for it to have gone. Although in my case there was no noise. The click noise doesn't sound too bad, remember you are taking up all the normal play in the whole drive from hub to transfer box. And it is possible that your splines may be worn too.

I am not convinced wholly that it isn't the diff, just a bit less so.
Because if it was the diff it would make the noise consistently and not disappear on acceleration but it could still be it, worn diff bearings, worn axle drive pinion splines, etc.
The hub nut may even be loose. It has to be done up to a huge torque then staked. If the previous owner did it he may not have tightened it up enough. 362 lbs ft, or 490 Nm. I did mine by using a long bar and marking the point on it where my body weight would exert that much torque. A torque wrench to do this much torque is very expensive and most home mechanics don't have one. To undo them I had to put a scaffold pipe over my long breaker bar.

Click to expand...

Interesting - I am going to need one of those torque tools (along with axle stands).

Stanleysteamer said:

If the drive is not going to the diff then the diff is running by being turned by the wheels, so you would expect the noise in all senses of motion.

Doing my best but not being with you doesn't help!
I think you need to get an experienced mech in the back of the car as you drive along so he can listen to it and work out what it is. I have had to do that in the past. One time it was a rear wheel bearing in a FWD drive car when I feared it was the diff!
The other time it was wind noise coming from where I had fogotten I had taped over the top of the windscreen temporarily.
Best of luck and STAY SAFE!

Click to expand...

Thanks again! Really hoping that it is something easier to fix

Stanleysteamer said:

Just found this which might help

Quick Guide to Diagnosing Differential & Driveline Noises

Find causes of rear differential noise, wheel bearing noise, and more, including differential noise when accelerating and bad differential symptoms.

www.onallcylinders.com

Also to see if it is wheel bearing related, try swinging it hard from side to side, i.e. driving in a tight turn to the left and then to the right, (empty car park or something) if it gets worse then better it is deffo wheel related rather than diff related.

Click to expand...

Nice suggestion, thanks!

Stanleysteamer said:

Just listened again, are you sure it isn't a problem with the brakes?? Could a piston be stuck holding a pad at least slightly in contact with the disc? or a bit of stone or other foreign body be in there?
That should be easy to check! And easy to fix!

Click to expand...

Yep, hopefully it is only that - I will try all these things and report back

Have you had Britpart rear calipers fitted at all recently?

They drag

MJI said:

Have you had Britpart rear calipers fitted at all recently?

They drag

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Not really sure but I guess not. However the "Land Rover Specialist" had to remove them in order to take a look at the rear differential I imagine.

I have had the car for a few months. Given my poor experience with the local mechanics, I decided to start learning and doing things myself. So far, I changed the u-joints on both prop shafts and changed the rubber coupling.

But I will confirm and take a look, as you guys have suggested. Thanks!

MJI said:

Have you had Britpart rear calipers fitted at all recently?

They drag

Click to expand...

Checked that - they are not the culprit, unfortunately.

mcbrl said:

Checked that - they are not the culprit, unfortunately.

Click to expand...

At least ruled out, as it would have been an easy fix of new decent seals

You haven't mentioned wheel bearings in a while.
Have you gone a ny further with testing them?

Stanleysteamer said:

You haven't mentioned wheel bearings in a while.
Have you gone a ny further with testing them?

Click to expand...

I drove around today in an empty parking lot, trying to do "circles". The noise does not seem to change at all. But, as you said, that does not rule out that the wheel bearings are actually ok. But they seem to pass all the "normal tests" to verify them.

I then took it for a ride to reach higher speeds - the noise does get louder.

So... nothing concrete really. Still trying to figure out what parts I am buying first to exchange myself. Probably the wheel bearings assembly first.

Cheers and thanks for checking in