Becks Bear said:
tig9619

i used a 10mm and 8mm drill bits to lock the pulleys, i also had tipex on all the places i could mark, i really don't believe that i missed a tooth, however if the timing is out then i must have done something wrong:(:(:(

i hope i can advance the timing by moving the pump slightly:):)
Click to expand...

Most of the time it's because you dont turn the engine to seat the belt and it's not been sitting properly.

In terms of turning the pump, I guess you might get a smidgen but be aware that if the belt was not seated then it might be too slack.

If the engine turns clockwise as you look at it and the pump pulley also turns the same direction, then I would imagine that you need to turn the pump the opposite direction to advance it bringing the cams into contact earlier, if you turn the pump away then I guess it retards it. Thats the way I always did it anyway.
 
I think he neds to start again.

To make heaps of white smoke indicates almost for sure that the timing is at least one tooth out.

It is ESSENTIAL when fitting a new belt that all the "slack" is taken up on the belt on the right side, and the top. These MUST be tight when the timing marks are lined up.

If the camshaft is mistimed there is a risk of the valves hitting pistons.

Start over. Have someone who has done it befpre to help you this time.

Next time you'll manage, but this time the risks of serious damage means "take no chances".

CharlesY
 
as said, it can be done with only pinning the pump and usind the timing marks on the casing and the pulleys. the crank will line up with the woodruff key, checked with the timing pin in the flywheel. the cam will sit quite happily on its mark and like they said above, make sure the belt is tight on the right between the cam and crank.
then you take up the slack with the tensioner using the slotted holes in the pump pulley. It is a very simple procedure when you have done it once but i have seen some simple mistakes. One came in and they hadnt loosened the bolts on the pump pulley and just tightened the belt up, it was way too advanced.
 
right this afternoon i tried to advance the injection pump as per various information set out in the posts, couldn't get to move far enough, HOWEVER the slight movement made a bit of a difference BUT not good enough :mad::mad:

as Charles Y said, start again which i have:eek::eek::eek:

everything now removed and stripped back to the timing belt, a diesel mechanic is coming tomorrow morning to set the timing, he says he will start at the begining take the belt off, set up the timing, once he fits the belt then i can put everything back together and try the engine again:):):):)

he will also show me the correct way to do this timing:D:D

OWN A LANDY AND BE A FULL TIME MECHANIC:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
pos said:
First I'd just try adjusting the fuel pump externally. This involves slackening the pipes from the pump to the injectors as well as the feed pipes to and from the pump from the fuel filter housing. Next, take a sharp tool and scribe a line between the body of the fuel pump and the timing case (so that you have a default to go back to if you screw things up). Then slacken the nuts that secure the pump to the timing case (only slightly) and gently knock the top end of the pump towards the engine with the wooden end of a hammer so that if you are looking at the front of your engine, you are moving it in a clockwise rotation. MAKE SURE howeveer, that you only move it about 2mm looking at your scribe marks and then tighten things up, re-fit the pipes and fire it up. If it's made any difference just leave it be. If it's made a slight improvement, continue adjusting it in 2MM stages (gauging by the scribe marks) until the engine makes a loud clatter on full throttle. Then back it off 1mm and tighten everything up.

If this doesn't work then I know it's not what you want to hear, but I'd be tempted to adjust the belt yes. If you take the cover off and then mark everything up with tipex, slightly slacken the belt off again and then rotate the fuel pump sprocket clockwise one notch on the belt, which will advance the timing then just tighten everything back up.
Click to expand...

Hi Pos,
Is this the best way of setting the injection timing, especially as it makes so much difference to power and economy? Or is it that the other way needs special tooling / test gear?

Not criticising just asking. :confused:
 
jzcktv said:
Hi Pos,
Is this the best way of setting the injection timing, especially as it makes so much difference to power and economy? Or is it that the other way needs special tooling / test gear?

Not criticising just asking. :confused:
Click to expand...

No thats a guess it method unfortunatly, stick the pins in and do it that way and it will be good enough, the pump mounts are not elongated so it moves next to fookal, and if you are having to move the pump to get it to run right then odds on everything is all to fook, valve timing etc.

If you want exact, space shuttle accuracy then you need a timing disc fitted to the crankshaft a dial guage down the bore and one on the rockers and spill time the pump. But unless you are able to get offset dowels or keys or vernier pulleys then you are fooked because you will be unable to get the belt on at that exact position.

I was only involved in that process once with rally cars, and having worked most of my life on vehicles mostly trucks I have never had to fook about with all that ****, so just stick the pins in, fit the belt, give it two full turns by hand and make sure the pins go back in and it will be fine.

I have done loads of belts and never had any problems, some even with two belts.
 
ok mechanic couldn't make it yesterday so i set about the job of refitting the timing belt

checked all the markings before removing timing belt

placed locking pin (made my own pin to fit the hole on the injection pump)

wood drift at 12 oclock TDC, checked number 1 piston to make sure it was TDC

the cam pulley was about three or four teeth away from the indicating mark

replaced cover and fitted crank pulley, the mark on the crank pulley didn't line up with the mark on the case

ok, removed the cover, locked pin again, removed belt, set the marking on the cam pulley, replaced the belt, rotated engine several times and all makings line up, fitted timing cover and the mark on the crank pulley now lines up with the mark on the cover casing, rebuild and tried to start, the engine turned over but wouldn't start, checked diesel, bleed through no joy.

removed rocket cover and removed rocker arm, checked all push rods none bent, put them all back in the same place, tried engine again no joy

checked for power at the fuel solenoid all ok.

removed rad and bits and pieces checked the timing belt again all markings as above, rebuilt and tried again NO JOY

i know its the timing BUT WHAT AM I DOING WRONG:doh::doh:
 
Last edited:
Becks Bear said:
ok mechanic couldn't make it yesterday so i set about the job of refitting the timing belt

checked all the markings before removing timing belt

placed locking pin (made my own pin to fit the hole on the injection pump)

wood drift at 12 oclock TDC, checked number 1 piston to make sure it was TDC

the cam pulley was about three or four teeth away from the indicating mark

replaced cover and fitted crank pulley, the mark on the crank pulley didn't line up with the mark on the case

ok, removed the cover, locked pin again, removed belt, set the marking on the cam pulley, replaced the belt, rotated engine several times and all makings line up, fitted timing cover and the mark on the crank pulley now lines up with the mark on the cover casing, rebuild and tried to start, the engine turned over but wouldn't start, checked diesel, bleed through no joy.

removed rocket cover and removed rocker arm, checked all push rods none bent, put them all back in the same place, tried engine again no joy

checked for power at the fuel solenoid all ok.

removed rad and bits and pieces checked the timing belt again all markings as above, rebuilt and tried again NO JOY

i know its the timing BUT WHAT AM I DOING WRONG:doh::doh:
Click to expand...

A guess is that you set it up on No 4, both pistons 1 and 4 obviously come up at the same time. To set no1 the back two rockers must rock, what that means is one comes up as the valve closes and then the other starts to go down. This then means that it is firing on no 1, you do the same for all the others and set your tappets on the firing strokes, but thats another story.
 
You must set it to Top dead centre, NUMBER ONE FIRING.

To know it's #1 firing,
1. the #1 and #4 pistons will be at the top of their strokes, AND
2. you will have rocker-to-valve clearance at BOTH of the 1st and 2nd valves from the front of the engine.
3. both the back two valves (valves 7 and 8, #4 cylinder) will be slightly open together, and have no clearances.

Get that TDC #1 firing right, then set the cam wheel and Injection pump marks, slip the belt on, make sure the belt teeth are firmly engaged in the wheels, make sure there is NO slack on the right and top stretches of the belt, recheck the timing marks are dead on, and set and torque the tensioner, and AGAIN after turning the engine round 3 orm 4 full rotations, stop it on TDC #1 firing, and check the timing marks AGAIN.

Now re-tension the belt and re-torque it.

After that it should be a runner.

That should do it.
 
Charles Y

will try it again in the morning just as you describe:):):)

just one question, if the cam pulley was turned would just setting back at the mark be ok:confused::confused::confused:

i am not saying it was just clutching at straws
 
removed the timing belt and started all over, set the timing, it looked as if the injector timing was out, rebuilt and tested,

YES YES YES engine running on the first turn of the key:):):):):):):)

still have a small amount of white smoke:eek::eek: will now fine tune the injection timing

no point in getting older if one doesn't get wiser as everyday is a learning day

thanks to everyone for there input:D:D:D:D:D
 
Becks Bear said:
removed the timing belt and started all over, set the timing, it looked as if the injector timing was out, rebuilt and tested,

YES YES YES engine running on the first turn of the key:):):):):):):)

still have a small amount of white smoke:eek::eek: will now fine tune the injection timing

no point in getting older if one doesn't get wiser as everyday is a learning day

thanks to everyone for there input:D:D:D:D:D
Click to expand...

Brilliant result.
It's what Landyzone is for!!
Well done!
Price up what a main stealer would have charged for the job.
That will make you even happier!
CharlesY
 
Becks Bear said:
removed the timing belt and started all over, set the timing, it looked as if the injector timing was out, rebuilt and tested,

YES YES YES engine running on the first turn of the key:):):):):):):)

still have a small amount of white smoke:eek::eek: will now fine tune the injection timing

no point in getting older if one doesn't get wiser as everyday is a learning day

thanks to everyone for there input:D:D:D:D:D
Click to expand...

Now you have finally got it finished, I hope, give it a run and recheck the crankshaft pulley is tight, stick it in gear and make sure it's nice and tight and off course a once over all the bits you had off paying attention to the hose at the alternator which runs very close to the pulley and gets munched.

And if you had the radiator out plenty antifreeze, and the plastic filler plugs on the radiator and thermostat housing need to be replaced if you had them out coz they are **** and blow out, you can get metal plumbing fittings to fit but watch the clearance for the bonnet.

A ****ty time to be workin on a motor aint it, fokin freezin, my garage is too low and mine wont go in so my list of repairs is awaiting sunny times.
 
well still a bit smokie after adjusting the pump timing. however after the rebuild and new chassis she past the MOT TODAY:D:D:D:D:D

big red now on the road legally;););)
 
Becks Bear said:
well still a bit smokie after adjusting the pump timing. however after the rebuild and new chassis she past the MOT TODAY:D:D:D:D:D

big red now on the road legally;););)
Click to expand...

Well well, what a fine result !

The score:

LandyZone 1 ---- Main Stealers 0

The smoky problem .... what colour smoke and when does it happen?

Smoke from Diesels can be WHITE, BLUE, BLACK.

Or any mix.

CharlesY
 
CharlesY said:
Well well, what a fine result !

The score:

LandyZone 1 ---- Main Stealers 0

The smoky problem .... what colour smoke and when does it happen?

Smoke from Diesels can be WHITE, BLUE, BLACK.

Or any mix.

CharlesY
Click to expand...

yes its real nice to get her past the MOT

the colour of the smoke is still white, then when giving her loads of wellie turns to black, lift your foot off and it goes back to white
no water lost, no oil lost, no gunk around the oil filler cap, i still think its a timing issue

was getting the tracking done today before going for the MOT and i have found another mechanic who will look at the timing next week.
 
The timing may still be out a bit.

Setting TDC on the woodruff key for the pulley isn't really good enough.
There's a wee plug you can take out at the flywheel cover that you can stich a pin into (use a drill bit) and that sets TDC very well.

Let us know what happens.

Make sure ALL the valves have clearance because if any ONE doesn't, that cylinder will not compress correctly and WILL make heaps of white smoke especially on light loads.

CharlesY
 
CharlesY said:
The timing may still be out a bit.

Setting TDC on the woodruff key for the pulley isn't really good enough.
There's a wee plug you can take out at the flywheel cover that you can stich a pin into (use a drill bit) and that sets TDC very well.

Let us know what happens.

Make sure ALL the valves have clearance because if any ONE doesn't, that cylinder will not compress correctly and WILL make heaps of white smoke especially on light loads.

CharlesY
Click to expand...

Charles Y
when i set the TDC i checked for the mark on the flywheel, it matched the woodruff key

HOWEVER i removed the rocker to check if i had any bent push rods, but i NEVER reset the tappet clearance:doh::doh: would this cause the white smoke:confused::confused:

will look at these tappets next day i am off
 
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