allan108 · Jan 22, 2019

Hello forum,

But if a disaster, I had a cracked cylinder head, leaking injector. I was short on time but decided to get a new cylinder head, from a reputable engineering firm. I had a good garage install it, and now I’m left with a reached new cylinder head and no one admiring fault. What’s clear is it’s not my fault!!! Haha. Images for reference and or humour. I’m massively out of pocket, but more to the point my defender is out of action! Advice / support.......

Some info,

Apparently it’s a Chinese head, but I was assured that’s ok, they then machine the cam bearing to proper size.

All new bolts / gaskets etc.

Installer said he checked oil was flowing, and lubed the cam before start, I have no reason to believe otherwise, they are a good outfit.

Original cam was used, it was not damaged.

Cylinder head engineer said we should of plasti gauged the cam first, I don’t understand this, as it’s supposed to be a stock part, standard cam, not a custom engine build, with various parts.

Many thanks

I now have no clyinder head, no defender and 1400 squids short?! Any advice on how to get back on the road quickly much appreciated.

jamesmartin · Jan 22, 2019

buy a good used one from a landy breakers,id guess you got a 1 piece head and used the cam top plate from old head and they werent compatible

tom1979 · Jan 22, 2019

Looking at the photos I have had this exact thing on a Vauxhall Astra 1.7CDTI - basically the head we bought was a load of rubbish.

If you want to get back on the road quickly I would pay Turner Engineering a visit, apologise for not buying one from them in the first place

) and get one from them or at least ask for their advice. They are usually very helpful.

I don't think I know anyone with a TD5 that has not been able to reuse their original cam and certainly they never had them checked first. They must wear to some degree though? Looks like you will need to get a new one now though.

The Chinese are only good at electronics, and even then only when supervised by an adult.

johnlad · Jan 22, 2019

tom1979 said:
Looking at the photos I have had this exact thing on a Vauxhall Astra 1.7CDTI - basically the head we bought was a load of rubbish.

If you want to get back on the road quickly I would pay Turner Engineering a visit, apologise for not buying one from them in the first place ) and get one from them or at least ask for their advice. They are usually very helpful.

I don't think I know anyone with a TD5 that has not been able to reuse their original cam and certainly they never had them checked first. They must wear to some degree though? Looks like you will need to get a new one now though.

The Chinese are only good at electronics, and even then only when supervised by an adult.

Some of the takeaways are ok as well

ozzyboydeano · Jan 23, 2019

allan108 said:
Hello forum,

But if a disaster, I had a cracked cylinder head, leaking injector. I was short on time but decided to get a new cylinder head, from a reputable engineering firm. I had a good garage install it, and now I’m left with a reached new cylinder head and no one admiring fault. What’s clear is it’s not my fault!!! Haha. Images for reference and or humour. I’m massively out of pocket, but more to the point my defender is out of action! Advice / support.......

Some info,

Apparently it’s a Chinese head, but I was assured that’s ok, they then machine the cam bearing to proper size.

All new bolts / gaskets etc.

Installer said he checked oil was flowing, and lubed the cam before start, I have no reason to believe otherwise, they are a good outfit.

Original cam was used, it was not damaged.

Cylinder head engineer said we should of plasti gauged the cam first, I don’t understand this, as it’s supposed to be a stock part, standard cam, not a custom engine build, with various parts.

Many thanks

I now have no clyinder head, no defender and 1400 squids short?! Any advice on how to get back on the road quickly much appreciated.

very poor install or poor instructions ?

a fitter just does what is told.... just goes with the flow then fits the parts... he she might be good hands on only type person and knows how to use a wrench or slap an engine together quickly

a mechanic will take time at a higher pay rate as he will spend just a few hours measuring etc
they will have allocated people to do curtain jobs

unfortunattly in this situation you cant win as there is a combination of used and new parts ...... as well as instruction giving on the invoice ...its a loop hole that many people get caught out on .... many people opt for the cheaper way out to cut costs

i cant understand why the cylinder head engineer did not measure first as he mentioned we SHOULD OF DONE ? as plasti gauged is used as a measurement tool not a performance add on type thing

cutting corners can also be costly

agew · Jan 24, 2019

Get a good independent engineers report, issue small claim against one or both and let them sort out which is liable - don’t see any reason why you are.........? Major pain, good luck, A

allan108 · Aug 20, 2019

Update time.... There was no way i could feasibly prove anyone wrong, and my car was stuck in the garage, so i paid for a new head ( at cost) and agreed that the labour was removed, so both supplier and workshop compromised ( i still got the poor end of the stick, as it cost me an additional £......). anyway.

The Landy a year on still has not run properly. list of items replaced.

- Cylinder head ( twice )
- Fuel pump
- Fuel Reg
- Fuel filter and housing ( checked valves in correct location. )
- Injectors sent to ribble valley for an 800 quid rebuild!
- Inj. harness replaced
- sensors - maf & crank.
- waste gate

It still runs rough as a dog ( miss firing ) on start, grey smoke everywhere. but when warm it seems to run much much better, pulls like a train. I have removed the EGR, big intercooler, new air-filter, wound the turbo waste gate a little etc etc.

Im at a loss, and i keep handing to the workshop ( 5k ob this alone ) to find nothing is sorted, just working my way through issues. i cant help but think its still injectors or wiring.

Attached is a video from my Nanocom of it at idle, just after start, revving it gently to about 2000rpm, this highlights the rough running. ( sorry that its the wrong way round, i could not find a way to change it post the event!)

any thoughts appreciated!

P.s i have a Nanocom now, so if anyone near Banchory / Aberdeen needs to use it let me know.

Al

Alpinejim · Aug 20, 2019

I don’t understand why the head needed to be machined for the cam but...
You have green injectors, is it a late engine? The cams for early and late engines have different part numbers so did your original cam definitely get used?
You have an uprated intercooler, have you remapped the ECU to suit? Maybe it doesn’t need it but you’ve also fiddled with the wastegate. Did you/garage damage any vacuum hoses?
Do you have oil in the red plug of the engine loom?
It’s not likely to be your injectors, especially if they’ve been rebuilt and the same problem exists.
Have you checked the MAP sensor?

tom1979 · Aug 20, 2019

have you done/checked the following:

-injectors tested (we use Merlin Diesel)
-is there oil in ecu plugs?
-have you replaced the injector loom with with a genuine one?

It’s not like this is it? Job to tell from the video

tom1979 · Aug 20, 2019

Just seen you had your injectors rebuilt - what did they actually do? As far as I know ribble valley are parts only and would have sent them off somewhere for that sort of thing - where did they send them? 800 seems cheap considering there’s their profit in that too

Edit: you mean ribble valley diesels? If so sounds about right

allan108 · Aug 20, 2019

Alpinejim said:
I don’t understand why the head needed to be machined for the cam but...
You have green injectors, is it a late engine? The cams for early and late engines have different part numbers so did your original cam definitely get used?
You have an uprated intercooler, have you remapped the ECU to suit? Maybe it doesn’t need it but you’ve also fiddled with the wastegate. Did you/garage damage any vacuum hoses?
Do you have oil in the red plug of the engine loom?
It’s not likely to be your injectors, especially if they’ve been rebuilt and the same problem exists.
Have you checked the MAP sensor?

Thanks for the reply,
I did not know that re the Cam, they could well have used the wrong one, I can’t rule it out.
Ecu is standard, but I have alive sending em a new stage 2.
I’ll check vacuum hoses, but I think they are ok. The MAP seems to read ok, I did replace it 1 year ago,

Many thanks Al

allan108 · Aug 20, 2019

tom1979 said:
Just seen you had your injectors rebuilt - what did they actually do? As far as I know ribble valley are parts only and would have sent them off somewhere for that sort of thing - where did they send them? 800 seems cheap considering there’s their profit in that too

Edit: you mean ribble valley diesels? If so sounds about right

Yep that’s the same problem!!!

Replaced the loom, but not landrover, bearmach I think?
Def no oil in ecu plug I have checked it lots!! Paranoid....
Yes Ribble valley diesels,

Again thanks for the reply.

Al

Alpinejim · Aug 20, 2019

The early cam starts ERR, the late one starts LRC? I think. L something anyway.
It’s stamped around the front end.

I don’t know what the differences are, maybe just a higher lift on the late one. The shaft itself may be the same for each but odd that yours was damaged after machining the head which would have removed material, not made the bearing tighter.

tom1979 · Aug 20, 2019

allan108 said:
Yep that’s the same problem!!!

Replaced the loom, but not landrover, bearmach I think?
Def no oil in ecu plug I have checked it lots!! Paranoid....
Yes Ribble valley diesels,

Again thanks for the reply.

Al

Well it’s of little help to you but I also replaced a load of stuff and couldn’t work it out so I’ve left it for now. Mine only does it when the weather is colder, and if I leave the engine to idle for 10 or so seconds it doesn’t run rough, and it only did it on the first start of the day. Mine was standard when it started but has since had various remaps and now on a Storm Stage 3 with VNT. Still the same in colder weather. Like the glow plugs aren’t working (they are).

allan108 · Aug 20, 2019

tom1979 said:
Well it’s of little help to you but I also replaced a load of stuff and couldn’t work it out so I’ve left it for now. Mine only does it when the weather is colder, and if I leave the engine to idle for 10 or so seconds it doesn’t run rough, and it only did it on the first start of the day. Mine was standard when it started but has since had various remaps and now on a Storm Stage 3 with VNT. Still the same in colder weather. Like the glow plugs aren’t working (they are).

Cheers for that, u fortunately mine does it in all weather, and takes me driving it to clear, needs to warm up, it can leave a lot of grey / bluey smoke. Pain in the arse. Distinct misfits too.

Regarding the head and cam, it was a new head, I think it was fitted incorrectly or the head was wrongly machined, but the next head seemed to work fine, but it’s never run properly since.

Thanks again.

Al

Mario110 · Aug 22, 2019

I think 800 is too cheap to refurbish the injectors. I also sent my injectors to a company (in germany) which destroys them for 1000€

. The engine was running not so bad like yours but when warm unsteady. They have fittet not original too big nozzles and misaligned the mechanic internally. Do you get neew injector codes and programmed them?

allan108 · Aug 22, 2019

Mario110 said:
I think 800 is too cheap to refurbish the injectors. I also sent my injectors to a company (in germany) which destroys them for 1000€ . The engine was running not so bad like yours but when warm unsteady. They have fittet not original too big nozzles and misaligned the mechanic internally. Do you get neew injector codes and programmed them?

Thanks for the reply, there was me thinking 800 was a lot?! I was certainly not trying to find the cheapest place. They did provide me with new codes, and I have used my nanocom to enter them.

I added an Alive stage 2 Tune file yesterday, obviously this has not fixed my poor running when cold, but boy does it run beautiful when warm! I have an accelerator pedal, no longer the on / off switch i had before!

2nd injector loom arriving today, we shall see, but not holding any hope for it!

allan108 · Aug 23, 2019

A few updates then!

interesting day with the defender! in order of events

- New Alive stage 2 Tune uploaded....
- obviously, no difference in start issue idling rough and lots of smoke at low revs, until driven.
- drives like a beast on new tune! absolutely amazing.
- then...... it started hunting in low revs whilst driving in 3rd / 4th, felt like it was being starved of fuel.
- much, much investigation later I noticed my nano com telling me it was in low range..... I moved the selectors for High low back and forth, It then showed correctly on nano com, Drove perfect again!

Then I replaced the injectors wiring loom, yet to see if it helps the cold start and idle, I will update tomorrow when I try.

few, apologies for long thread.

I am a long way both time wise and finally into this issue, most likely more than one issue from a poorly looked after defender, but.... but, I'm getting there!

thanks

Al

Alpinejim · Aug 23, 2019

I don't see why the injector loom would be at fault. If it goes like a train after warming up, there's nothing wrong with the injectors nor the loom.

It's more likely something giving false information to the ECU or the ECU itself. Maybe the coolant sensor.

allan108 · Aug 23, 2019

Alpinejim said:
I don't see why the injector loom would be at fault. If it goes like a train after warming up, there's nothing wrong with the injectors nor the loom.

It's more likely something giving false information to the ECU or the ECU itself. Maybe the coolant sensor.

Thanks for the response, that’s a fair point, I guess I’m clutching at straws, there was plenty of oil in the injector loom plug on the engine loom side, so thought it’s probably best.

Not thought about the coolant readings, I’ll see what they show in the morning.

Thanks.

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