If the solicitor tries to haggle - don't get drawn in.

State you require full refund immediately otherwise summons will be issued as previously notified. Tell him that due to the gross misrepresentation by his client you will most certainly win at court. Once the summns is isued you will accept nothing less than full refud, interest, costs and compensation, yet to be ascertained. Tell him that in order to mitigate the costs and to save court time you will accept a full and immediate refund in lieu of which you will drop the threat of any further claims to which you are entitled to make. Tell him that this offer is without prejudice.

Cheers,
Steve

j the range said:

nice one jay looks like you have won, get your money and get intouch with rangiegirl. that one wont let you down..

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Except there is only 5 hours of it left on fleabag...

I'd want a refund plus costs.... a full refund just lets him off the hook. He hasn't lost anything he had before the sale and therefore hasn't learnt anything. The trader needs to refund the car plus pay all costs to settle this.

Lets face it. The use of the small claims court is just another way to get the money... not a way to get more than is owed right. Court will simply cost the trader MORE so THAT is the incentive to sort things before then.

Settling for a quick refund of car cost only and no costs to stop court is selling yourself short in my view. Have you worked out your Total claim yet?

It's not always so straightforward, even if you have a good case, which you have. It can take months if the trader is sharp. It goes something like this

1) You issue summons - he gets 14 days to respond
2) He acknowledges receipt of summons - 14 days now extended to 28 days.
3) He files a defense - may be spurious or lies but doesnt matter to the court.
4) A week or so later, depending how busy they are, Court issues notice a defense has been filed and allocation questionnaire to both parties.
5) You each get a further 2 weeks to respond.
6) At this stage, if you are unsure or inexperienced you may feel the need to consult a solicitor yourself. It's not necessary but if you fight a bad case it will cost you!
7) Court receives both allocation questionaires. Depending on the content the court may ask further questions prior to allocaind a hearing date. Yes, more delay.
8) Court will allocate hearing date, depending how busy they are it may be anything from a month to 5 months, and thats the fast track! Totally out of your control.
9) Prior to hearing date (a week or 2) you will most certainly have to have agreed an expert witness. If he asks and you refuse it wont look good, despite your evidence.
10) Prior to hearing date (a week or 2) you will have to exchange a "bundle" pleading your case.
11) Depending how well you do this he will decide if he wants to have his day in court.
12) He will most likely make an offer of settlement. Probably a bit more than you paid for the car but less than your claim.
13) Beware, thats a tactic.
14) If you win in court but the judge , having heard BOTH sets of evidence, makes an award less than his offer you run the risk of being hit with court costs. It's a real risk.
15) You will be glibly told (including by your solicitor) that you will win and get all your costs back. Its not that simple.

Anything from 3 to 6 months later a decision will be taken by the judge. His decision will depend on the evidence and how it is presented on the day and which side of bed he got out of.

Your solicitor, if you go that way, will be totally confident till the day at court. Just before you go in he will jump on the fence and point out risks in your case. You will feel all alone and that it is all your fault!

Thats the reality of whay often happens. It is quite rare to get all that you want out of the court, especially regarding costa and compensation. Thngs are never quite so black and white when both cases are presented, lies an all - just how much of your negotiation can you evidence in writing!!

Go into this with your eyes open. Use the courts if you have to but if you have the chance of a full refund without further ado - take it. Buy yourself another car and move on.

PS if he makes you an offer of a full refund now and you turn it down it will be used against you in evidence. Beware, the courts do not want to have to hear these cases and you are expected to mitigate costs and consequences for all.

I apologise for going on a bit, it's fine us all filling you up with testosterone but be pragmatic. Get your money back and move on is my advise.

Good luck,
Steve

Fair comment Steve, and good advice too which gives you some reality of how the courts work and how time consuming it can be!!

Steve Ashworth said:

it's fine us all filling you up with testosterone but be pragmatic. Get your money back and move on is my advise.

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Wise words there - sometimes life is just too short to go for what you really feel you deserve.

Good luck in getting to the full refund stage!

Pete

Cheers Steve,

Both myself and my wife have said that if he offers a full refund but not expenses to date we will take it,

I am only down an inspection cost, and a reg transfer really. I would just rahter get the shed off my drive and the money I paid for it back.

There may be some post waiting for me when i get home!!!!

jay140285 said:

Cheers Steve,

Both myself and my wife have said that if he offers a full refund but not expenses to date we will take it,

I am only down an inspection cost, and a reg transfer really. I would just rahter get the shed off my drive and the money I paid for it back.

There may be some post waiting for me when i get home!!!!

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Can you charge him for Parking Fees ?

lol, ****ing thing wont start now.

Comes up gear box fault and then nothing,

Not sure if the battery is flat and causing the fault or the fault is causing the lack of starting.

it doesnt even try to start, just flashes up on the dash Gearbox fault Max 35.

flat bat plus airbag fault, hopfully not your problem much longer..

If he's havin it back are ya Bothered ??

Yep ..as J said ...FLAT BATTERY ....A Flat un ALWAYS Throws a "Gearbox Fault Max 35" Dash readout

Hi jay any more news on thishas the ****er admitted defeat and payed up

Come on Jay, we all want to know the outcome.

Latest response, not as positive as we had hoped for:

Thank you for your E Mail of 09 December 2010.

Do you have the repairs estimate from G S Autos? If, not when will the estimate be available?

I note the allegations made in respect of the MOT. However, my client purchased the Range Rover and relied, as he was entitled to do, on the vehicle being presented with a clear and valid MOT. (never made any allegations to him about the mot, just stated that the issues were present)

My client is prepared to arrange to have the Range Rover inspected by a mechanic of his own choice. The person in question is an expert mechanic specialising in Range Rovers and is employed by a main dealer. I am happy to provide his name and qualifications if you so wish.

My client has a professional relationship with that mechanic. Any suggestion by you to the contrary is incorrect. ( I will be follwoing the vehicle to any further inspection it has and be present when it is looked at)

Your reference to court proceedings is noted. However my client has offered to have the vehicle transported at his own expense to a mechanic of his own choice. ( would the court say I was been un reasonable not letting him have it inspected)

My client has also enquired as to the cost of repairing the vehicle.

I believe that court proceedings are not appropriate but you must of course make your own decision and be guided by your own legal advice.

My client will however refer to this exchange of E Mails if you issue court proceedings prior to my client being given an opportunity to examine the vehicle and consider the repairs estimate from G S Autos.

My client continues to deny liability and my E Mails must be read on that basis.

I dont think the presence of a "clear and valid MOT" negates the legal requirement that he supplies a vehicle "fit for purpose" and "of merchantable quality". Both of which, it clearly isnt.
The onus of being "of merchantable quality" resides with the purchaser, I beleive.

The Mad Hat Man said:

I dont think the presence of a "clear and valid MOT" negates the legal requirement that he supplies a vehicle "fit for purpose" and "of merchantable quality". Both of which, it clearly isnt.
The onus of being "of merchantable quality" resides with the purchaser, I beleive.

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It clearly wasn't valid in any case and it's his responsibility as the seller to have made sure it is, particularly as he claimed an inspection as a selling point.

They have no right to insist that you have it repaired. A plain and simple refund is your right, not something they might allow you to have.

Guy

This was my response given that evertime I mention the Inspection that he sold the car as having had, they ignor it:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

May I point out that I have agreed that Mr XXXXXX brought the car on the understanding of it having an MOT; I have never accused him of knowing it was possibly a fraudulent MOT.



What I have mentioned on several occasions but I feel that it keeps been ignored is that fact that he advertises that his cars carry inspections prior to sale.



Please see the snippet off XXXXXX XXXXXXX website.

XXXXXX XXXXXXX company profile
1, All our vehicles carry long MOT's and Tax
2, We encourage AA and RAC inpections for your own peace of mind.
3, All our vehicles are HPI'D.
4, All our vehicles have full service history, unless otherwise stated.
5, All our vehicles undergo a ful inspection.
6, All our vehicles undergo a full lubrication service at the very least.
7, We honour our obligations as far as the reliability of our vehicles is concerned - a matter we take very seriously.
8, We are licensed credit brokers and are able to arrange finance to suit most clients, irrespective of previous credit history.
9, We welcome part exchanges with classic cars as well as modern cars.
10, We are open for business 7 days per week.
11, We now are able to accept payment / deposit by credit card subject to a 3% surcharge.


Point 5. What I feel keeps been ignored is the fact that regardless of whether the car was supplied with an MOT or not Mr XXXXXX advertises that his cars are fully inspected, (this drew us to buying off XXXXXX XXXXXXX ). Now if this car was inspected then the issues that were present prior to Mr XXXXXX purchasing the car, and are present now they would most definitely have been picked up at this inspection that is advertised as having happened.

What I am saying is that either this inspection took place and therefore the issues were highlighted to Mr XXXXXX, OR it did not take place. It can only be one or the other.

The quote from GS auto will be emailed tomorrow, It has been posted to myself and should be in today’s post. Please note that at the point of the quotation the car has not been linked up to a diagnostic machine to highlight any further problems within the cars system as several faults are now present when the ignition is turned on.

If Mr XXXXXX wants the Range Rover main dealer to view the car, could you please forward all contact details and give me a time scale as to when the car will be collected and returned to myself.

stop wasting time bantering with him, it's clearly not FFP so start the small claims court NOW

no more messing do it NOW !