T

TTC

New Member
I have a 98 p38 range rover, 2.5dse ,
prior to my problems the thing drove like a rocket, and i was a happy man, but my problem now is that i have had to replace the engine with a donor from 525tds,(drove perfect before i removed)
i used the original fuel injection pump but put my top on it,
i did extensive research before doing this, and new that it was a fine art adjusting the top of the pump, i can get the car to start and idle but it lacks power, so if i adjust the top so it has power it is then a bugger to start from cold,
i have a local garage that will let me read the values on there 2 month old autologic,
but when it comes to re-setting the values and the fine adjustment on the top, i am unsure of where to start, and i dont want to be there paying them by the minute to take an hour to do a 15minute job.. (or maybe it is an hour? or 2) this is why i am asking before i take the car there!
what is the value?what are the values?
do i adjust the FIP to get a perfect idle and then use the computer as a 'guage' to read and then i tap very gently until i reach said value?

please, any information would be great,

Regard s JR
 
Why did you have to replace the engine? Did you change the temperature sensors? You sure the glowplugs are OK?
 
the original engine ended as scrap, as the headgasket was gone, and the price of a kit, and renting the timing tools was alot more than the price of a very good example 525 from my friends dad, one owner, fsh...
i swapped everything from the p38 onto the donor minus, the complete fuel pump, only the adjustable top,
as i said earlier, i can get it to run like a dream on idle, and start perfectly from hot or cold, it is just low on power,
it is only on the advance of the adjustment (loosening and tapping the top gently) will i get power, but it will then be hard to start when cold,(fine to start from warm)
 
TTC said:
the original engine ended as scrap, as the headgasket was gone, and the price of a kit, and renting the timing tools was alot more than the price of a very good example 525 from my friends dad, one owner, fsh...
i swapped everything from the p38 onto the donor minus, the complete fuel pump, only the adjustable top,
as i said earlier, i can get it to run like a dream on idle, and start perfectly from hot or cold, it is just low on power,
it is only on the advance of the adjustment (loosening and tapping the top gently) will i get power, but it will then be hard to start when cold,(fine to start from warm)
Click to expand...

So if when you have power, it starts OK hot, it may be that you have 2 or 3 duff glowplugs. Your low power setting could be masking it by over fueling at idle. Not a big job to check the glowplugs and it may save you a bob or two.
Hot start is the usual M51 problem.
 
first check on the list was glow plugs as i had 6 spares! so would have been a cheap fix, but all glow lovely when connected to a battery, and all recieve power on the multimeter..
i have done alot of research on the top removal,
my problem is the same as replacing leaky seals on the FIP, i am now at the super super fine adjustments stage using electrickery and computers.. which i am not the wisest with, i havent used one for a long time, and it was a sunstar 3000 or something like that in 2006, a generic machine, not worthy of the mass inteligence and iver worked p38..
 
TTC said:
first check on the list was glow plugs as i had 6 spares! so would have been a cheap fix, but all glow lovely when connected to a battery, and all recieve power on the multimeter..
i have done alot of research on the top removal,
my problem is the same as replacing leaky seals on the FIP, i am now at the super super fine adjustments stage using electrickery and computers.. which i am not the wisest with, i havent used one for a long time, and it was a sunstar 3000 or something like that in 2006, a generic machine, not worthy of the mass inteligence and iver worked p38..
Click to expand...
I take it the glowplug light comes on when the engine is cold?
 
yes both injector light and glow plug light go on, then when injector light goes out i crank..
 
TTC said:
yes both injector light and glow plug light go on, then when injector light goes out i crank..
Click to expand...
Did you fit the needle lift sensor injector from the old engine? Different years have different sensors on LR, BMW might be different again.
 
i didnt originaly use the p38 injector with wire, but after my fault i did, i am sure it is just finding the exact value, as it is the same injection pump used on 4cylinder VAG diesels, and a few others, and when the adjustment on a VW is done they do as i have done, and get mediocre power, and good running by ear, and then plug into VAG-com, to read the value, and the ever so gently tap to advance or retard, the problem is VAG-com doesnt talk to the P38, so after sourcing an auto logic what steps must i take to read the value, and then what is the value i should be setting??

regards JR
 
TTC said:
i didnt originaly use the p38 injector with wire, but after my fault i did, i am sure it is just finding the exact value, as it is the same injection pump used on 4cylinder VAG diesels, and a few others, and when the adjustment on a VW is done they do as i have done, and get mediocre power, and good running by ear, and then plug into VAG-com, to read the value, and the ever so gently tap to advance or retard, the problem is VAG-com doesnt talk to the P38, so after sourcing an auto logic what steps must i take to read the value, and then what is the value i should be setting??

regards JR
Click to expand...
Might be cheaper to buy a Nanocom. I don't know the values, if the weather was not so bad I'd go and look on mine.
 
i dont mean to sound stupid, but why buy nanocom, when i have access to a autologic, for €30p/h,? surely after the i have the values digitaly read then it will hopefully be end of case??
your avatar says you have a fault mate extreme, and you also kindly suggest that you would weather permitting, have gone and read your values..
would this have been an easy task? or is it a time consuming tedious operation? and would you be doing this on a nanocom? or fault mate?

Regards JR
 
TTC said:
i didnt originaly use the p38 injector with wire, but after my fault i did, i am sure it is just finding the exact value, as it is the same injection pump used on 4cylinder VAG diesels, and a few others, and when the adjustment on a VW is done they do as i have done, and get mediocre power, and good running by ear, and then plug into VAG-com, to read the value, and the ever so gently tap to advance or retard, the problem is VAG-com doesnt talk to the P38, so after sourcing an auto logic what steps must i take to read the value, and then what is the value i should be setting??

regards JR
Click to expand...

I have news for you, moving the top does not advance and retard the pump. It increases or decreases fuel. All you are doing by moving the top is sliding the fuel control collar along the shaft. You should set this by moving the top until 750 RPM is achieved with the ECU trimmed to nominal. That is how it is set up. If you have no power after doing that you have other problems.
 
TTC said:
i dont mean to sound stupid, but why buy nanocom, when i have access to a autologic, for €30p/h,? surely after the i have the values digitaly read then it will hopefully be end of case??
your avatar says you have a fault mate extreme, and you also kindly suggest that you would weather permitting, have gone and read your values..
would this have been an easy task? or is it a time consuming tedious operation? and would you be doing this on a nanocom? or fault mate?

Regards JR
Click to expand...
Nanocom is a lower cost self contained version of Faultmate that is not VIN locked. It covers all systems on the P38 including the EAS. Most find it will pay for itself in a year or so given the reliability of the P38. I have the full unlocked Faultmate.
I'm not sure which values you want, but plugging in and bringing up the EDC page is the work of seconds although I guess the engine would need to be warm to provide meaningful values. Then the easy way is to just take a photo of the screen although it can be saved as a file.

You can read the values but you then have to keep tweaking until you get the required values, I'm not sure how long that is going to take you.

I'm no expert on the FIP, wammers is your man for that. I learn as needed on the P38.:)

Not all versions of Autologic work on all systems on the P38 as it is not OBD compliant.
 
wammers said:
I have news for you, moving the top does not advance and retard the pump. It increases or decreases fuel. All you are doing by moving the top is sliding the fuel control collar along the shaft. You should set this by moving the top until 750 RPM is achieved with the ECU trimmed to nominal. That is how it is set up. If you have no power after doing that you have other problems.
Click to expand...
im sorry if i got confused with advance/retard and increase/decrease, but the over fueling is my problem, if with out the aid out computers and other bits to give me a reading i can get it to idle approx, which means a little under fueling, or adjust to get power, (increase fuel) but without someway of reading this my guess is not an exact science, and what is needed is an exact science, hence my trying to get a digitial live reading..

JR
 
Datatek said:
Nanocom is a lower cost self contained version of Faultmate that is not VIN locked. It covers all systems on the P38 including the EAS. Most find it will pay for itself in a year or so given the reliability of the P38. I have the full unlocked Faultmate.
I'm not sure which values you want, but plugging in and bringing up the EDC page is the work of seconds although I guess the engine would need to be warm to provide meaningful values. Then the easy way is to just take a photo of the screen although it can be saved as a file.

You can read the values but you then have to keep tweaking until you get the required values, I'm not sure how long that is going to take you.

I'm no expert on the FIP, wammers is your man for that. I learn as needed on the P38.:)

Not all versions of Autologic work on all systems on the P38 as it is not OBD compliant.
Click to expand...

a scholar and a gentleman!! :D:D this is the type of information i am after,
 
TTC said:
im sorry if i got confused with advance/retard and increase/decrease, but the over fueling is my problem, if with out the aid out computers and other bits to give me a reading i can get it to idle approx, which means a little under fueling, or adjust to get power, (increase fuel) but without someway of reading this my guess is not an exact science, and what is needed is an exact science, hence my trying to get a digitial live reading..

JR
Click to expand...

Others have managed to do it by trial and error:)
 
trial and error is normaly my choice, as it is much less expensive, but i am at my tethers end, as it does seem to such a minute tap of a the FIP top can make such a difference, that i have finally given in and want to use a computer... to get it exact..? make sense?
 
hopefully wammers is the man, that can give me some information on the reading, determining, the correct values?? what values will be displayed? what will be the one i manipulate? any info is warmly welcomed!!

JR
 
First you need to check if the ECU temp sensor you have fitted is correct for the Range rover ECU. Problems have arisen in the past with Omega sensors not being compatible. Don't know about Autologic or even if it's any good with your car, but nominal idle value setting on Nanocom is 128. You however will only get the idle speed. As it is a preset inputted from a separate screen. But can be changed with engine running. Less value to decrease and larger to increase idle speed. If your ECU has not been played with and the preset not changed just set idle to 750 by moving pump top with engine warm. Have you had pump off? It needs to be timed correctly you CANNOT guess this. Unless you scribed pump and set it back where it was it is not possible. You cannot just throw it back on near enough. Timing advance on rotary pumps is achieved by rotating the roller ring to advance or retard the cam as required.
 
the pump itself has not moved, it is still in situ from prior removal, only the top removed, thankyou for this figure, i now know where i should be in the ball park, as you mentioned wammers, my ecu has been played with, by jeremy fearn, with an upgraded intercooler, and chip, i am awaiting a reply via email, and if i dont hear back soon, then i will call, and hopefully he will know the ideal figure for his map..? maybe you previous experience of tweaking these pumps for added performance and know of a more optimum value, that doest throw up faults but is subtly improved?

that previous was more than enough food for thought, thankyou,
regards JR
 
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